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Deerey he had his mind made up on playing this particular formation right from the start and would have shaped the squad the way it is for that very reason.
Sorry to say but the overload of CM players and lack of wide options is on him, he knew what budget he had and what he had to work with and went down the path he choose to go down.
Only problem is now he’s assembled a squad to play a certain formation which he now finds out doesn’t work, but can’t really deviate from it due to his own recruitment of players.
Look, he’s an inexperienced manager and he got it badly wrong…look he’s only human. Only problem is that the poor decisions taken early on has absolutely screwed us.
How can you play this or any other level with 2 wingers on the books when even know one of those is always injured ?
Absolute madness Deerey.
They won’t be expecting that.
You’re not kidding.
I’d go a flat back 4
Denton, Boyce, Max, Barrows
clunan sitting with Beestin and brogan further up
Roberts left side, carlton right side with The fish up the middle “if whitehall isn’t fit”
or Carlton up top with scales right side and roberts on the other.
We badly need some width. Those options have to be better than what Butler’s serving up at the minute.
I know people think this is harsh what I’m about to say but Turnbull has been living off his past exploits of signing Sharp, keogh e.t.c years before. Who’s he brought in post Sharp, Keogh who’s been any good ?
All we keep doing is keeping him in the background involved when he’s had a hand in signing absolute dross for previous failed managers. Sorry it’s just not good enough.
This fascination with keeping people because “they’re part of the furniture & bleed claret and blue has to stop”. I’d much rather have somebody here in an advisory role when it comes to signings who knows this level particularly and what it takes to get out of it.
All the times we’ve tried this it’s worked with Adkins, no more.
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The problem is, as said numerous times, we don’t have the squad depth or quality to change formation too much without reinforcements
Blame butler as we have a total of 7 central midfielders on the books in a tight squad of players. nobody put a gun to his head and told him to put a squad together exclusively to play this formation. That’s on him.
You can’t say it’s not his fault when it was him who assembled the squad. 7 central midfielders is a joke in any squad at this level, but one of this size ?
Butler knew what he was doing and knew he had very few wide players, but went his chosen path and backed himself into a corner. No excuse as he could have easily have signed a few wide players and alternated between 442 and 433, but he went his own route and well and truly fecked it.
Thanks to Butler now we’ll have to get another manager in who’s going to have to deal and deal best they can to sort the squad out. I will however stress it wasn’t his fault he was offered that extension which was crazy to say the least.
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Buxton were awful to play against last season. Not looking forward to this one as I know what to expect. Horrible, but very effective team.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Michelle’s looking at Butler thinking “Why the hell did I offer him that extension!” and is reluctant to give him any more spending money.
I know we need it, but why waste money on players for him to sign when he’s fecked the squad up to the extent he has ?. Not only that, there will be serious doubts about him due to the last couple of months performances, or shall I say, lack thereof.
I cant quite believe we’ve ended up with 7 Central Midfielders, 2 wide players “1 of which should have been let go last season due to never being fit” and only two recognized strikers. Carlton was brought in as a striker, but has played most of his career on the wing and I still say Beestin is better in midfield.
Basically leaves us with Whitehall and an untried Fishburn who will need time to develop.
When you take into consideration just what a state this squad is in, would you give him any more money to sign more players ?
What if Michelle give him money to sign 2 or 3 more players and he ends up signing absolute dross and then get’s fired 3 or 4 games later ?
Still got two games in hand though. Buxton also coming up on Saturday have just started to hit some form.
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One thing we do lack so size and strength in CM which is bizarre when we have Beestin and Brogan who are both robust enough for this level. I’ve never seen Brogan barged off the ball after coming off the subs bench and Beestin is strong enough. Clunan would be fine in a sitter in a midfield 3 with say Brogan and Beestin, but Scales should be nowhere near CM.
I’d play scales out wide before playing him in CM. Scales played best for us when he played right wing back so not such a far stretch to move him a bit further up the pitch.
Our squad is too small with no quality options
Including Beestin and Braithwaite who’s on dual registration with Gainsborough, we have 7 central midfielders. That is bonkers in any squad size, but especially one of this size. Butler has caused this problem.
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So you’ve dumped Carlton from replacing Whitehall then WG, but I see you still want to dump Whitehall lol, whatever were paying him offer him the same end of season.
We need to change formation to one with width. Only two wingers we have are Roberts and Law. Law is always injured, so who else is there to choose from besides Carlton ?. The same Carlton who played wide right and scored 15 goals last season.
If we had wide players I wouldn’t have suggested Carlton play there, but we haven’t so it all becomes a bit desperate.
Couldn’t we swop Rowley, Jason Law and our tea lady for him ?
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Butler shot himself in the foot right from the start when he assembled this squad. If you include Beestin and the lad we have on dual registration we have 7 central midfielders.
Least if Butler got wide players in he could have alternated between 4/4/2 and 4/3/3, but no that’s far too sensible.
Carlton played as a winger in a 4-3-3 formation last season. When I saw Butler partnering Scales with Clunan I knew what was about to happen. Clearly doesn’t see what everybody else does.
I’d go with a flat back 4 with Beestin, Brogan and Clunan a bit deeper of those two with Carlton one side, Roberts the other with the Fish upfront. Not ideal, but think Whitehall will be out a while.
There was a post further up regarding high earners at the club which are biting into the budget. Evans for instance could easily be moved on for two cheaper players and he wouldn’t be too much of a miss.
Evans signed a new 2 year deal in June so his wage will be within the new budget constraints surely.
No doubt it fit with the budget, hence why he signed an extension, but we had a set amount to spend and if we have a sizeable budget I bet he takes a fair wedge of that up. The same goes with Denton & Whitehall.
I bet Evans, Denton and Whitehall’s wages will cover 5 players at this level.
Butlers full of shite, if he’s not defensively minded first and foremost then the grass must not be green.
Far too safe. There was a post further up regarding high earners at the club which are biting into the budget. Evans for instance could easily be moved on for two cheaper players and he wouldn’t be too much of a miss.
Whitehall is frustrating at times, but at the moment he’s imperative. I bet there’s a player out there though that’s just as effective who won’t want as much money, but it’s just finding him.
Evans I’m not that impressed with though and certainly won’t be worth his wage packet. Denton will be on a fair wedge as well, is he really that impressive that we couldn’t replace him with a comparable player who won’t be on a much money ?
I like him, but what’s he really contributed in terms of goals and assists ?
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I remember we were offered vardy for around 300k after he ran us ragged for Halifax in a friendly, but turned it down due to it being too big a risk !
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Thanks to Butler whoever does end up coming in down the line “which is a forgone conclusion in my eyes” he/they are going to have to ship out say Shrimpton, Rowley and permacrock Law to get wide players in.
I still think we’re a striker short too. This squad needs balancing up. It’s a wonder Butler didn’t think to himself when he got those players in to play this formation, what happens if it doesn’t work !
Butler’s well and truly backed himself into a corner because he has no other alternative but to play this 5 at the back due to lack of options out wide.
Next appointment we need a manager from this level with experience who knows who and what it takes to get out this division. We need to stop this in house managerial rubbish. It worked with Adkins, but I’d rather we didn’t go down this route again.
Who’s it going to be next ?……Scunny bunny, toilet cleaner, pint puller from the Iron Bar ?
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possibly alongside Brogan if the opposition merits it
I’d go Beestin and Brogan personally as both have that bit of steel about them. Brogan’s not exactly small and hardly get’s shrugged off the ball when he comes on.
Clunan’s fine in games when we’re on top, but other than that it’s a struggle
Away, he’s only just come back from injury and isn’t match fit. Pinning our misfortune on him isn’t exactly fair. Bit of a disaster up to now with injury problems, but he’s going to need time. Only problem is he’s going to need time we simply don’t have.
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Clunan is good when we’re on top and keeps the ball well, but as mentioned above when we’re being pressed and it’s a straight battle he get’s out muscled. I’d personally go Beestin and Brogan and see how that pans out. Brogan’s a lot more direct and is a lot more robust then Clunan.
Crying out for width again. Only problem is the whole squad has been put together to play this 5 at the back formation. Only two wide players we have are Roberts and Law. Law is always out injured. I thought we may have turned a corner after Tuesday, but doesn’t look like it, if anything we got worse.
Worst performance of the season and that’s saying something. Apart from 2 performances which can be classed as full 90 minute performances we’ve been absolutely awful to watch.
If Butler is still in a job post January, I’ll be surprised.
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Could be working his/her notice somewhere?
The mystery C.E.O is Pat Sharp who in his day had the best mullet in the world.
Who the hell is this mysterious C.E.O we’ve supposedly signed ?. Is all being kept very hush, hush. Is he a secret agent and just using the C.E.O position as deep cover ?
M.I.5 ?
Deerey it’s a football forum, they’re designed to give nitpickers a platform. One slight gripe about last night and it is slight. I still think Kelly offers a bit more class to the left hand side and knocks a better ball in than Denton.
I like the look of young Fish upfront too, he needs more game time. I definitely think there’s a player in there.
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They’re so bad.
We looked way better in midfield. Butler better not move Beestin again. I’d put Brogan ahead of Scales in CM too. Carlton looked a lot sharper. Fish played well again, all in all a good night. Radcliffe are crap as well so can’t see why we won’t turn them over.
Question is if we keep improving against capable teams.
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The system is too negative. Shrimpton can play a bit in CM as can Brogan, but never really get a chance. All Butler seems to care about is having 3 big lump CB’s on the pitch and that doesn’t really work, but they tend to get in each others way. I like Scales energy, but has no composure when it comes to finishing chances.
I’d try him as a winger personally. I still think the best he looked was when played those games at RWB. Not keen on him in CM. Especially not as a two man central midfield partnership. As a 3 man probably, but not with Clunan. No good when it comes to getting shots on target and despite his energy he’s too small to a be a midfield wrecker.
I suspect he would work as winger as he looked good bombing down the right as a wing back and hasn’t got a bad cross on him.
We have laws and Roberts as natural wingers other than that NOTHING!!
Couldn’t agree more. Only way around this problem is to let some CM players out and try and balance the squad. Dire need of a striker too.
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Our form isn’t great though, is it ?. Butler is learning on the job, has one way of playing in which he won’t drop the 5 at the back and stupidly keeps chopping and changing players in and out.
I wasn’t really a fan of Dean, but taking into account what he had to deal with during his tenure, is Butler an improvement or a downgrade ?
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Why didn’t Michelle wait until Jan to really see how we and Butler fared before choosing to extend his contract ?. Butler did well to an extent and had a good start, but that’s all it was, a good start.
I love Michelle for her work in saving the club, but there needs to be an experienced football head at the club who hasn’t been connected with the club in the past in an advisory role to safeguard against decisions like this.
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3 very basic errors from players that don’t normally make them
Nicholson had a ridiculous 10 min spell against Rushall, one mistake when he went to kick the ball and somehow managed to kick fresh air and if not for a poor finish that mistake would have cost us a goal. Sandwiched in between that was several other hairy moments.
When Evans ran into Nicholson, I mean that was ridiculous, but it has something to do with playing with 3 CB’s as they do tend to get in each others way. Solid to an extent, but they don’t really look confident playing in the system. It needs simplifying and changed to 4 at the back which will put them more at ease due to being more confident playing that system.
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