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It was more than ‘below the belt’, it was daily disgusting racist, misogynist and bigoted posts and continued for far too long. It brought this forum in to disrepute and encouraged others to show their true colours; colours that have no place here or in modern society. Frequently, the language and rhetoric was appalling. It can’t be allowed to happen again.
I don’t disagree with that.
Politics to own the libs is so tiresome. There is good reason why leftists or anyone appalled by the far right raise concerns about rhetoric from far-right sources.
Oh, and I don’t like far-left rhetoric either, so it’s not a matter of one sidedness and I don’t think it’s just the left who can be blinded to the problems from their own side.
Agreed Deerey but doesn’t mean that football clubs have to change their kit to suit them, they could always find another club who don’t wear white shorts or stop participating in sport altogether if they are that bothered. That’s about it for me on this topic maybe I’ll come back on it next month.
The problem with find another club approach is that if every club enacts player/employee alienating measures there are no suitable clubs left. If all players refuse to play then there’s no sport left for spectators.
Of course the pull of money and national pride, for England, will override concerns, but I don’t see why it is wrong for players to demand something which suits them. They are human and are deserving of respect. I do not see the issue in providing a simple solution to a problem like this.
I can see how Deerey’s objection to LK could be seen negatively by Bucks. However, DeereyMe is right to point out that his negative opinion of LK comes from the Big J episode.
LK has put forward some good points before, and while I do disagree with a lot, it’s good to have those who put forward another angle. The Big J stuff was below the belt though, so it’s a shame that got popularity from some quarters.
Personally I disagree that these tax cuts will bring the growth they desire, but there is no point going into it, because I will be misrepresented and patronised to death.
Polls can change, but only if the Tories can regain trust, which is hard to do. Sticking fingers in the ears and hoping in vain is unlikely to do it. Labour won’t be complacent, but they’re not going to go into despair because of hypothetical turn arounds based on nothing. I am sceptical Truss is good enough to turn it around. She’s weak on presenting herself as a strong leader, for one, and I don’t know how she reverses that perception.
I do find some amusement in Bucks speaking of opinions based in reality, in a week when he’s disparaged any criticism as being void because of political identity or because he knows best, as if his opinions are above reproach.
I don’t mean this to be an insult, but it is becoming increasingly hard to disagree with any of his points, because if so I’d get labelled as a ‘usual suspect’ or duplicitous.
The Corbynisation of the Tories continues on the whole. All and sundry who disagree with the economic approach are left wing, including the IMF. Tories who disagree are evil left wingers*. There is no such thing as disagreement in good faith. Only their way is righteous and pure, anyone who disagrees is suspect.
*
What the U-turn demonstrates is that the traitors and quislings on the Left of the parliamentary Conservative Party are sufficiently numerous to stop the Government doing what needs to be done to save the country. It’s all over now.
— Sir Harry Flashman (@FlashForFreedom) October 3, 2022
What gives women a right to ‘pontificate’ is that they are human, just as us men, so have every right to comfort and dignity. ;-)
Train drivers and doctors should be lambasted for the money they earn, but complain about a tax cut for the rich and it’s the ‘politics of envy’ for many Tories.
I want us to be in the first round proper, so no thanks to those three. Some lower team at home.
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‘Oh, and the Tories love nothing more than a Labour party that thinks it’s already won the next election.’.
Nope, you’ve been corrected on that a day a two ago. It really doesn’t think it’s won anything. You can keep saying it as much as you like. It’s just one in a long line of fabrications and untruths.
Meanwhile the Labour party are loving the Tories doubling down on what has been unpopular for their electoral chances.
‘You’re even more naive than me if you think the BBC didn’t select the pensions person they interviewed based on their views over Brexit.’
It was a phone in programme love: ‘Any Answers’ to be precise. Thanks.
No doubt they deliberately siphoned political views before allowing a phone in. These conspiracies are tedious. Anyone who disagrees with this has to be suspect, and arguments are just dismissed.
The Tories have no responsibility for anything, despite being in power for 12 years, everything is the fault of the ‘elite,’ (which somehow doesn’t include those in power), remainers, Labour, IMF, EU etc, never them.
If someone has a position to the left of Reagan they can just be dismissed, no matter what they say. It’s the same tedious dismissiveness as the Corbynites who do the same in reverse. They are so cocksure in their rigid ideology, yet they hurl such accusations at others. Everyone else is ‘suspect,’ yet don’t dare criticise them for being ideologically blinded.
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It doesn’t matter if Labour support certain economic policies. They have no power to enact them, so the idea they can be blamed as much as the Tories for economic policy is daft reasoning.
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Brown’s approach to saving the economy, after admittedly making mistakes previously with gold reserves, was praised and copied by other nations to success.
I am uneasy with the liberal use of ‘filth’ and ‘scum’ even if I agree with some of what is said, including callous disregard for the poor from many.
We need to cut financial help for the poor to fund tax cuts for the rich, so they can generate help with energy bills for those who need it. Makes sense.
Labour haven’t been in power for 12 years, so I don’t see how they can be afforded equivalent blame. There are global causes for financial imbalance, but that didn’t stop Tories from capitalising on Labour mistakes in the 2000s when the financial crash was global. The same applies now when the Tories have made an unforced error. Most other countries have managed to enact policies without worsening the situation, so they can’t palm away responsibility. Their supposed help with energy costs won’t wash when they put pensions at risk, make mortgages costly and reportedly cut benefits for those who need help the most with energy bills.
The do something argument also applies for net zero. We know we need to reduce carbon emissions, but wind and solar energy security has been lethargic. There has been a woeful reluctance to utilise nuclear, which would have helped a lot, but this doesn’t mean we should have done nothing for helping future generations with the effects of climate change.
However, I do apologise if I have read too much into it. I can be blunt and find Bucks’s attitude to be grating. Personality clash, maybe, nothing more.
Like I said, this is my honest opinion of Buck and his arguments. If he is going to come on here with a perceived patronising and arrogant attitude, making out that anyone else is beneath him, then reactions may happen.
Maybe I can do better, but I am not going to lose too much sleep over it. If Bucks wants to treat everyone like an idiot and demeaning anyone else who thinks differently he might get disdain from those he derides.
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It should also be said that if the system, such as LDIs being overly relied upon because of the low interest rates, you don’t just put the system at risk with gung-ho madness. It does not absolve the government for chaotic idiocy.
However, because this disagrees with Bucks, I am prepared to be patronised to the inch of my life and told how I am disingenuous and someone who can’t have a valid opinion from another line of thought. And if I react to this, I am ‘abusing’ him.
Downgradings of ratings, damages to gilts, mortgages and pensions at risk. However, it’s all ok because every single concerned body of high status is a full of it ‘expert,’ unlike Bucks, who we should trust, otherwise we’re Marxists, usual suspects, and disingenuous.
It’s not convincing, but part of me thinks carry on. This attitude is what got the Tories into the mess they’re in, in popularity, so be my guest and shoot yourself in the foot.
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*I have not abused you. I have given some negative opinions of how I view your argument and personality. I am not going to be politically correct and dress it up to protect thin skins.
Bore off with the usual suspects crap, as if anyone who disagrees with you is suspect. You bemoan anyone else, but have your own rigid ideas which are not up for question. And if they are, it’s because we’re left wing guttersnipes.
The only thing you have shown is your astounding arrogance and dismissals of everyone else as stupid, while whining if anyone dares to question your ‘expertise’. Just because someone disagrees with you, it doesn’t mean they’re ignorant or reliant on others.
The pound unsurprisingly reacted to BoE intervention, costing £65 billion in the process. If your economic ‘expertise’ involves BoE taking drastic measures, then I am alarmed and unlikely to trust your ‘expertise’. Instead of howling about how everyone else is disingenuous, try and deal with your own argument. We are not obliged to take this weak position as gospel, because your ego thinks of yourself as some great expert.
Of course there is the usual crap about critics being left wing. You’re just like the Corbynites. In your and their ideal world there would be no critique, just pandering to their ideological silliness. Corbynites see anyone to the right of Chavez as right wing, you see anyone to the left of Reagan as left wing. Hence the idiocy coming out that anyone critical of pensions, mortgages, loss of gilts are overreacting lefties. I never knew city traders were a secret hive of Che wannabes.
I eagerly await the howls of ‘abuse’ and ‘insults’ from someone because I haven’t played along with their nonsense.
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“Many of us have also been warning that Germany and others were heading for trouble if they continued to rely on gas supplied by a despot”.
Us??? Such pomposity. Wasn’t aware that German leaders were keen readers of the forum.
Also, those who are disagreeing with Bucks don’t unanimously think everything others have done has been great. Germany’s decision to cut back on nuclear has been disastrous.
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Also, I would say there is more to deciphering whether a leader is doing a good job than approval ratings. For example, the 30% of ardent Trump fans are hardly going to say Biden is doing a good job, from a place of reasoned argument, no matter what.
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Of course it has after BoE stabilisation. If you’re pinning your economic hopes on emergency intervention to bail us out as economic policy, I would be concerned.
Bucks doesn’t accept that there will be any meaningful consequences of climate change, so he’ll just shrug his shoulders at that.
Hallo hallo anybody in, earth calling Buck’s wake up and smell the coffee, come out of the darkness and read posts based on facts.
Partisan Tories are really grasping at straws to pretend this is normal. If it wasn’t for the fact many will now suffer because of their ideology I would be pleased, as it is electoral suicide.
One thing party supporters should bear in mind is that it’s never good when the opposite side rub their hands with glee. Tories understandably did it with Corbyn, now Tories should think why Labour are getting more optimistic with Truss. The more they delude themselves and double down, the more gleeful hands will be rubbed.
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Bucks battling against reality and acting like the this is fine meme. Suits me, if the Tories delude themselves along his thinking they’re not going to improve in ratings.
10 years ago we needed to reduce the deficit, reduce borrowing because we spent too much, so the poor need to have services cut back. Now we need to borrow to fund tax cuts for the rich. It’s transparent.
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Unlike the Corbyn years, said person got rightfully dealt with.
Keep believing in that documentary, whose star witness was disbarred from being a lawyer for dishonesty.
Meanwhile, the EHRC, BBC and everyone else under the Sun have to be lying.
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