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Also, Mao supporters are the ultra left. If you acknowledge Biden isn’t among them, it’s a tacit admission you were bullshitting when calling Biden such. Otherwise I might as well call Truss an ultra rightist and excuse it that I don’t mean she was like neo-Nazis.
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I love how Bucks gets irate at me saying how his ideas are ridiculous, while saying the same back and expecting to be taken as some sage voice of wisdom.
Anyone who thinks Biden is some ultra leftist is bonkers and has no clue as to what left wing politics actually is, frankly. The only one who has been fooled is Bucks, by his own ideological blindness.
64, who is further to the left, must be guffawing at the idea of Biden as a raging ultra-lefty. As would any actual strong leftist. This is just the inverse of lefties calling anyone to the right of Tony Benn a fascist. To Bucks, anyone to the left of Cameron is a raging pinko commie. What next? Tony Blair the ultra leftist? Biden is hardly greatly to the left of him. Anyone who thinks otherwise is blinded by their own tribal dogma.
It’s amusing how Bucks wails about others demonising Tories while demonising others. Hypocrisy at its finest and a perfect example while debate is not possible.
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If you aren’t going to get involved, don’t come and make out criticism of his conspiracies, which are OTT, are out of order. I am not saying anything to be nasty to him. He is free to spout it, but I am free to critique. This is supposed to be a free society.
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The idea that Biden is ultra-left is hilarious and only made by people whose view of the world is skewed by a heavy right wing bias, with a belief that anyone to the left of Regan is a pinko commie.
Actual ultra-leftists hate Biden and see him as a capitalist shill.
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‘Thanks to all who wished me well. Much appreciated. Had a ‘lump’ the size of an egg removed from my shoulder’
Wow, that’s a little more than ‘minor’ IMO JI! Sounds like it went OK though and wishing you well for continued recovery. I’m sure I can vouch for everyone when I say, despite our differences and arguments, none of us wish any ill on any other forum posters. Take care bud.
I may disagree with JI a lot, but I usually find him to be reasonable and always behaves with decorum. Not like that matters when it comes to something like this. I would say the same to anyone needing some medical attention of some worry.
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Pointless trying to have a sensible debate, frankly, but some of the comments are just absurd. The EU could collapse — it’s far from impossible — and you lot would still claim it was a mistake to leave.
Well, yes, it is and not just because of everyone who dares to disagree with you. I have given up, since I know there’s no chance you’d debate with me in good faith. I have to spell out things umpteen times for you not to twist what I am saying.
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Paranoia.
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Your god sounds like a genocidal dictator. It doesn’t exactly win me over to Christian morality if murder is acceptable if God approves.
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I don’t think we should make out Tories are ‘scum’ by default.
There are many who aren’t, and it is rather prejudiced. However, the current crop of Tory MPs contain all too many grifters, chancers, self-interested, grubby charlatans among them, and it’s not wrong to call out people with negative connotations if you have the evidence to back it up. I don’t think that I can possibly do the same for every Tory, politician or not, in such a broad brush way.
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Have a bit more to say but have made myself late for the Hospital. A minor op today … if I make it through I will add a final bit later
I echo TW. All the best. :-)
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Thanks for a genuine and logical … and on the face of it ‘courteous’ response , Deerey. You have ‘previous’ on this …. which I appreciate.
I don’t think it’s a secret that I am not in favour of how the EU emerged out of the initial economic cooperation. Although I was roundly mocked for stating that some things should be judged over a longer timespan than a few years I still hold to that. There’s certainly plenty of evidence/activity across the EU to indicate that all may not be well in coming years.
I definitely agree that some of our present economic woes are attributable to the economic pain of leaving the EU. If I didn’t believe that the path it took was pretty well inevitable then I could even be tempted for the old days of purely economic union. But I’m not really even tempted on that.(I’ll post this then add a bit more … unless I get jumped on first…. because I keep losing text and it’s a bit frustrating)
I can respect that view. There were many things which I didn’t like about the EU, it did seem to encroach and the electoral system was highly flawed. There are other aspects I did like, some things do benefit from a collaboration possible with the EU, with Russia a more evident threat it would have been a useful outlet to bond with allies, instead of having distractions over conflicts in trade.
What got me was the attitude of some who thought we could have our cake an eat it. As Gurny points out, a member’s club (which the EU, the Single Market etc are) will have conditions, including a payment to access the system and legislation for commonality. They were never going to offer us trade deals on the same level as within these markets, because to do so would render them pointless. Yet arguing this point with some was impossible, as it would be “the EU punishing us” or “they need us more than we need them, so they will undermine their own markets for us” or “you just hate this country and are arguing in bad faith.”
No, it was cold reality. I wish it wasn’t the case, I wish I could be more optimistic, but the economy matters and a poorer economic deal with Europe spells poorly for growth and financial betterment. Only last week it was revealed that exports to the EU has dropped by 16% since leaving. They make up the majority of our nearest neighbours, and those who aren’t are in the Single Market (e.g. Norway). Those who think CANZUK or trade deals with tiny nations like Fiji can make up for it are deluding themselves. Trade is usually most common with neighbours, due to logistics and other things. A harmful relationship would be to our detriment with the EU, as we have seen. Any future trade deal would be on their terms, we don’t have that much leverage and all the guff about the no deal ‘nuclear option’ didn’t produce much. We were told of the necessity of that, yet we still have a deal most are unhappy with, one which doesn’t see us better off and one which didn’t see the EU come flocking to us for deals on our terms, as was implied.
Sure, people can say that the EU is in bad shape, but they have done for years, and it still carries on. Will it for our lifetime? Who knows? However, we can only judge on the now, not hypotheticals and wishful thinking from some, and the decision currently doesn’t look that promising, economically, to me.
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Yawn.
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