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Swann paid no attention to Bucks’s previous pleadings, so if he does read it is obvious he won’t pay any attention to it.

Having said that, Bucks’s post doesn’t seem more superfluous than some others on here which seem to just be a way for the OP to vent their frustration (e.g. the who is/are the biggest morons now thread). If Bucks thinks his thread will make a difference he’s deluded, but even I think maybe we shouldn’t give him so much ire on this thread.

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I am pretty sure our labour laws are better than one where thousands of migrant workers died in construction. I am pretty sure we don’t have women and gay people treated as second class citizens. So spare me this false equivance bollocks.

The difference between what the UK did in the past is that this was historical. Qatari problems are happening now. There is no equivalence between the two. We have our problems, but we’re better than a morally squalid dictatorship where debate like this is far more controlled.

Oh, and the majority of Iraqi deaths was caused by Islamist attacks, not US or UK bombings. Also, while the pretext was a load of crap, let’s not pretend that Saddam’s Iraq of genocide against Kurds and massacring Shia’a was some peaceful state.

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Well, those last 3 words will definitely help matters.

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If this was someone criticising the Tories for corruption Bucks would point at Labour and say that pointing out hypocrisy is a valid means of arguing against this. Therefore, it must be reasonable to dismiss this by saying we can’t talk, because of corruption within the UK.

For the hard of thinking, this is not my opinion of a good argument against this, nor do I have any inclination to do so.

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The entertaining nature of the football will never supersede the appalling decision to host it in Qatar due to its many human rights issues.

4 users thanked author for this post.

lesgeo, Iron-awe, Just Iron, Iron Age

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billpuntonsghost wrote:

Scriptures state the unregenerate man is not neutral in his worldview,but hostile to God. You constantly show this in your posts,Fans64.

Your morality tells you that the ‘unregenerate man’ is the one who thinks migrants should be treated humanely? Yet you then say, without irony, that morality is meaningless without God. Well, I’d say that the morality Greg and you follow is not one I would want to emulate.

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Perhaps you could form the only thing which can work to look after our malt whiskies, Bobby. A coalition ;-)

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BobbyGmeister

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I can’t even spend one second’s thought on a joke, which wasn’t even meant to be taken derogatively, without misery guts above chiming in.

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I am sure I saw a southern sounding PR guru run past my house this morning, with a lump under his arm, shouting “that’ll teach the predictable usual suspects!”

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Deereyme66

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billpuntonsghost wrote:

“It is beyond you that people reject Christianity,not through rebellion against a deity but because we genuinely don’t think it exists.”
God states otherwise in the Scriptures.

It is beyond you that I don’t think Scriptures are some great foolproof evidence isn’t it? And not because I am rebelling against a known truth, but because I doubt their validity as a deity’s word.

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Deereyme66

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I can find worth in life from other viewpoints. You just demonstrate your narrow mindedness here. It is beyond you that people reject Christianity, not through Rebellion against a deity, but because we genuinely don’t think it exists.

If God was clear to see, then it wouldn’t be reliant on faith.

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They’ve had 12 years of finger wagging. Credulity has finally caught up with them. Yet the ‘party of accountability and responsibility’ will still say how it’s everyone else’s fault.

To many Tories it’s agenda driven and unfair to blame the government for their own decisions. While finger wagging at Labour still, businessmen, ‘remoaners’, forum members who have different views etc is far more worthy.

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Or it could be be we just disagree with Christianity? Your rigid fundamentalism doesn’t allow any other possible explanation. It cannot be that we have a different viewpoint, we have to be nefarious and rebelling against god. Your fellow Christian who you seem to be taking digs at seems to have some understanding of this.

It may be a nifty security mechanism against cognitive dissonance and any insecurities from critique, but it doesn’t have any evidence for it. How would you distinguish between someone ‘rebelling against God’ and finding Christianity, and your version specifically, unbelievable? I don’t believe in Christianity, not because of some active rebellion (who am I rebelling against? I can’t rebel against something I genuinely don’t believe is real), because I don’t find it evidence based. No problems from me to others who do, but it would be nice to have some respect in return.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Iron-awe

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Deereyme66

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billpuntonsghost wrote:

Gurnelista – “ So why do so many of them support the death penalty?”
Gurnelista always gives the impression of refuting an argument with a “strawman “ post.
The answer to THIS question is that God ( who has reaveled His prescriptive will in the “ God breathed” inspired,inerrrant and sufficient Scriptures) is a JUST GOD.
His message to all people hostile to His word is repent and put your trust in Jesus Christ. God is rich in Mercy. Life does have meaning ,purpose and value.Merry Christmas on a day of celebration tomorrow.

It’s not God carrying out the Death penalty, for one, it’s mankind. Often innocent men and women get killed, which isn’t just.

Secondly, the way you view your god is similar to how many dictators think of themselves. You often talk about how we must all borrow our values from Christianity, but I have no moral value of the death penalty. There are better ways to deal with the worst criminals.

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I think it’s probably wise to be cautious regarding anything before more is known. I would say the same if people were saying it was Islamist or whatever.

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The idea that abortion is ‘murder’ is definitely debatable.

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And Democratic Christians would say that the Republicans’ policies go against their Christian beliefs on charity and helping the poor.

Trying to find the definition of ‘true Christians’ based on selective beliefs is a fools’ errand, as Christianity has branched off into dozens of sects based on interpretation. Each one claiming to have the best understanding, unlike the other ‘false’ and misled factions.

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You’re forgetting that criticising the Tories for that is the typical self-righteous superiority complex of the left, who think they’re better than the right. Whereas the right berating the left in the same manner is acceptable and we should take heed of their superiority.

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Deereyme66

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Or you could, for once, not assume everyone who comments on a piece isn’t doing anything to snipe at you. You could, for once, not project your own persona on to others. ;-)

Of course, it’s silly of me to say I have a different outlook to you, Bucks. I should let go of my political stance and accept libertarian rule is the way. Maybe we should get rid of anything which disagrees with Bucks? After all, thinking differently is seemingly wrong, so why bother with democracy, eh?

My point on welfare was to try and find some common ground by saying that I agree with you on some things, but lean further left. Yet, of course, I should have realised that’s not good enough for you. If I am of a different opinion I am suspect.

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I think your wording to his last response proved his point, Bucks. ;-)

We’re all aware of Tory excuses. We have had so many excuses as to why none of these improvements of living can happen. If it wasn’t for the 2008 financial crisis, Brexit preparations, getting a Brexit deal, the pandemic, Ukraine, net zero, the need for austerity to run its course etc we could have given the nurses a pay rise. There’s always an excuse, it’s never the fault of this Tory government; everyone else is to blame, including those of us on here far poorer and without influence than yourself. It doesn’t wash any more; the conditions for many in the public sector, from healthcare to the justice system have been strained for 12 years and the workers complaining. Yeah, I am sure the Tories would have really given a pay rise if it wasn’t for net zero. I was definitely born yesterday. :-)

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Iron-awe, Deereyme66

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“As for “capitalism is the only way”, although far from perfect there’s no question that open markets are far more efficient, as the Chinese have demonstrated in recent decades after millions died of starvation under Mao.”

Aye and now many more are being kept in a police state with harsh punishment for dissent. An entire ethnicity is facing extermination through concentration camps, forced sterilisation and death.

I am not disagreeing with your argument that capitalism is the only functioning system we have. I don’t disagree, but place more focus on a welfare system than you and Tories, and would point to the last 12 years of hardship as to why we need such. For all their excuses, and avoidance of accountability, this lies on the Tories. However, I am reluctant to credit a dysfunctional, Orwellian state of terror just because it’s had an economic boom since throwing off the worst of Mao.

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I find irony in this everywhere. I agree that many on the left say they’re caring, unlike the right, and then call others scum (I do not agree with the language used on the thread in reference). Then there’s the irony of you complaining of 2D representations of the right while making 2D representations of anyone to the left of you.

I haven’t read that much of the above, so have no inclination to debate. I just thought I’d comment on this one aspect from someone who constantly paints themselves as being more reasonable and less aggressive than everyone else.

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More personal abuse from the saintly victim.

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TwoWrights

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I wonder why the news won’t peddle conspiracy theories. It’s a mystery.

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Deereyme66

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Deereyme66 wrote:

‘But, never mind, eh. I’m sure you’re all nicely wrapped up in your own homes while millions face bills they can’t afford or freeze to death.’

That’s right, blame a handful of posters on a football forum for people freezing to death! Is this the only tactic the Tories have nowadays? Have you not twigged that the British public are seeing right through it? You’re right, probably not much gaslighting from you Bucks, but a series of straw men have been wheeled out!

He says this, yet complains of us believing we are superior. It’s pure projection and no doubt we are at fault for pointing this out. It will be ‘personal abuse’ to say he is self-righteous.

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Pat O'Cake

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Yawn. I will take your self-righteous, hokier than thou attitude more seriously when you don’t dismiss the problems caused to the poor because of the consequences of your party and ideology.

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Pat O'Cake, TwoWrights

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Zambia?

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After 50+ threads on the subject, what this forum really needed was another thread related to climate change and policies on this. I am sure all the arguments made tonnes of times before are really going to sway opinion now, the next time and the time after that when Bucks makes a thread on this. :-)

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Deereyme66 wrote:

And there were most sane people observing the fact that Putin has all but turned the gas off to those EU countries that we rely on for exports from, for heating and to produce our own electricity. Still, deflects from the government getting the rightful blame I suppose. Heard that from an energy expert btw. I’ll take his view thanks rather than a Tory on a football forum with an agenda.

The energy expert is obviously someone with a sinister agenda and is grifting for money for a supercomputer. ;-)

It’s inconceivable that someone with a different view to Bucks may have some clue or be behaving in good faith.

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