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If God’s heart breaks on abortion, it could get its arse into gear about miscarriages.
What’s often not said, is that abortion rates were actually higher pre-Roe v Wade. While much of the decline could be attributed to greater birth control, it does mean that illegality is not a restriction to abortion. The difference being the unsafe nature of it. Women get raped, pregnancy is a risk where the mother’s life may be in danger. People can sit and judge and say they may not make the bulk of cases, but the fact is women’s lives are either put at risk or through misery for grand moralising from the religious.
Moreover, as has been said, it’s the woman’s body and they are the ones who have to live with the consequences. The men can scuttle off and moralise about the woman, as they so often do. I wonder how many men would be willing to have forced vasectomies (a reversible process), until willing to try for a family, to prevent unwanted births. I am willing to bet many would then complain about their freedom.
Contraception doesn’t always work, pregnancy affects them for their entire life, putting their own careers and lives in a different way. At a stage where the zygote/embryo/foetus is of decreased sapience I am struggling to justify why it should be placed equal or above to the woman. We can disagree with the motives for some for abortion, but frankly, it’s the lesser of all evils, given the alternatives. The consequences of such we saw before, as anyone who is familiar with works like Motherhood with Bondage could attest.
JI complains about Roe v Wade being an imposition of a particular worldview on others, but wants to impose his worldview on women going for this, based off Christian beliefs. People have a right to be pro-life, but they shouldn’t have the right to impose their beliefs on others. Restrictions on people’s freedoms can be justified, where deemed necessary or moral. It’s people’s beliefs which drive the objection to abortion. I don’t think we should restrict people’s rights over their own bodies based on beliefs. It should be evidence driven. If Christians, or whoever, don’t like it, then tough. People shouldn’t be forced to be controlled by dogma, no matter its stripe. Christian, Islamic, communist or fascist.
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Never did reply to my response to you pointing out which States had made abortion illegal immediately after the ruling did you JI? You may have missed it but I suspect you chose not to acknowledge you’d got it wrong.
On the face of it, it was about giving state rights. However, I cannot help but feel it was with the knowledge that many would do outright bans as to why they were so desperate to repeal, not concerns over state rights. The same people refuse states to have say on gun laws, despite their apparent principles on state rights.
You presume too much and are overly confident in your own position. You think such, because you agree with it. Others may have valid critique, but it’s not like you’d listen.
That really convinces me it’s worth bothering with and generating a discussion, and that you will be receptive to comments, and not condescending at all. :-)
We all know you wouldn’t change any aspect of your opinion, no matter what, so why bother?
Maybe Peter Swann isn’t planning on building flats in place of Glanford Park. He’s wanting to turn it into a Gulag. :-O
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He’s still a free agent. I am not terribly surprised and I, for one, am pleased we have a new goalkeeper. He may be young, but so was Watson. We had years of give Watson a chance, he will come good, only for him never to reach great heights. Last season was an improvement, but let’s not kid ourselves; he was hardly of great quality.
A downside is that Dewhurst is on loan for one season, so is unlikely to be here long term, if he is good enough. However, it’s a fresh start and we can move beyond hoping Watson will show his worth, at long last.
NI hasn’t posted an ad-hominem. It’s not addressing any argument of yours. It’s a quote of Gandhi’s opinion.
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Hmmm. I am not sure about the labelling of ‘so-called Christian.’ I may disagree with them on various aspects of their belief, and BPG has let it known he’s a creationist previously, but I don’t want to go into such accusations over true Christianity. For many reasons.
Even the bit about fraud. Was there interference? Probably, yes. The government’s own refusal to publish the Russia report is shameful, especially their trumpeting about democracy over the referendum and its result. Yet this always veers too much into the vote itself.
We did warn them about how he has all the loyalty of a serpent. :-)
Loyalty??? Would you be loyal to your employer if a competitor at a much higher level knocked on your door with a lucrative pay rise and signing on fee in the offing?
I was being more than a bit tongue in cheek.
We did warn them about how he has all the loyalty of a serpent. :-)
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I am not a Wolfie Smith leftist either. I am no fan of communism. I am a boring old centre-left social-democrat moderate.
A reason why conspiracy theories appeal is because they reduce what are complex topics into a distilled and simple worldview which is easy to understand and reduces uncertainty. The problem with trying to deal with complexity is that the solutions are not easy, nor are they without issues. Making it all because of a insidious group’s bidding makes it easier to pin down, reducing the anxiety.
As Deerey says, a lot of the issues over our lives and how free we are come down to technology. However, this isn’t complex. There have been many wonders of technology, which has led to breakthroughs in science and medicine, helping us to live longer lives. However, the ability of our phones to store information has made us easy to track and monitor, which can be abused by authoritarian regimes. The improvement of AI has allowed countries like China to monitor dissidents far easier and restrict freedom. Growing access to social media has connected us to the world and has enabled us to easily talk to friends or family who live far away, and make friends we never would have normally made pre-internet. However, people have siphoned off into their echo chambers, where they surround themselves with people who agree with them on most things, so don’t expose themselves to challenging thought. Information is readily available from the search of Google. However, various groups of all stripes send disinformation across social media and the internet, allowing people to comfort their own opinion than truly challenge it with evidence based dissent.
There are many problems here which affect people to be free. However, the idea that it’s all some neo-Marxist plot takes some believing. I am aware you say that it’s not traditional Marxism, BPG, but what you are referring to is still stemming from Marxism (according to the proponents of this) and of the left. Yet, many countries and societies are losing freedom from the right. Facebook aren’t harvesting data from you for some neo-Marxist conspiracy; they do it, because it makes them a profit from who they sell it to. Hungary, Russia and India* are losing their freedoms to dissent because of a right wing ideology. Of course leftist dictatorial states still exist (e.g. Venezuela, Cuba), but to portray all of modern problems as a simplistic, good v bad narrative, where only a leftist faction is to blame is rather fanciful.
*And they justify their turn to tyranny as opposition to cultural Marxism.
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I know the portrayed difference; you have specified. It’s still stupid and the idea of it leading to deaths and misery, as suggested, is only believed by the gullible.
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There doesn’t need to be for someone who is talking about catastrophic deaths from Marxism in the UK during 21st century. It’s too stupid to bother with, and taken seriously by those more credulous than a lemming.
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Madness.
The FA Trophy is the only other cup competition and we’d enter at the third round. You are not mistaken with the FA Cup:-)
Ah, yes, the insult to intelligence. Yet you provide zero evidence for this grand plot, so I am going to take such with a pinch of salt. If you cannot back up your conspiracy, then it will be dismissed. You seem to think you’re standing on firm ground, intellectually, but it’s just a castle made from sand. ;-)
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I find the idea that some obscure academics theorising about social development is evidence of some global plot fanciful.
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This isn’t to say anyone proposing it is an anti-Semite. Nor does it mean that there isn’t something to go on. Academia is predominantly liberal, but it’s less to do with a fiendish conspiracy to destroy society, more because the job itself suits liberal dispositions more, the nature of the work and pay etc.
I am aware of the conspiracy theory, yes. I am aware of the conspiracy’s links with the far-right and anti-Semitism too.
For a general starter, here’s a link to the conspiracy, though I am sure BPG will suggest some far-right goon is more believable:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory
I’ve got drawn in again, Deerey .. I should go to bed.
First .. there’s much that can be truthfully said to be negative about Trump’s character and presentation. No dispute from me. Having said that I actually don’t agree with you regarding his intelligence.
In terms of my comment at the time of the last election it was definitely a comment regarding a stark directional choice the US electorate was facing. Yes … the abortion issue would be one that would influence me greatly for the reasons outlined above… as well as other policy issues which concerned me from the Democratic Party. They may be wrong .. but I think the millions who have tasted this new direction and who reject it in the upcoming midterms will bear testimony that many have come to share my concerns.
If I had my way I would probably hope for Trump to endorse one of the several very able potential candidates for the 2024 election and not run again. Let’s see.The problems facing the US are manifold. However, I do laugh at the idea of other able candidates. The Republicans have lost all connection with democratic norms, as their yapping about vote rigging and attempts to excuse or even support the Jan 6th insurrection supports. There may be many people won over by them, but that’s the concerning thing about a radicalised population, who drive a large chunk of this.
And, no, I don’t care about hurting their feelings if they don’t like the bluntness of this. We care too much about being ‘reasonable’ about people who believe in Qanon nonsense, vote rigging conspiracies, homophobic and much racist rhetoric. Of course these won’t apply to all, but they apply to a significant number of Republican voter base now, as evident by all the idiots in the party catering to this rhetoric. Heck, even more ‘reasonable’ Republicans like Marco Rubio daren’t stray far from this, because it would risk anger. This is the Republican party now, and it’s deeply concerning. I am wary of things like anti-Semitism from ‘the Squad’ in the Democrats, so it’s not that I think they are perfect, but the rot is far more ingrained in the Republicans.
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It’s definitely an emotional subject, Siderite so terms like ‘murder’ may well tend to inflame … as might repetitions of ‘ridiculous’ if you don’t like the argument.
I’d like to ask if it just Christian pro lifers that you have problems with … Or all pro lifers? And also whether you are sure that there is no ongoing care and concern from Christian groups and charities who take a pro life stance. I support a Christian charity that is definitely pro life yet also offers a range of services and resources to support mothers and children … and offers therapeutic counselling to the many women ( and some men) who come to find relief from pained consciences after an abortion which, in some cases, have plagued them for years. It is not the only Christian charity I know of which does the same. Maybe they are rare exceptions to your rule … but I don’t think so.I am against any belief infringing upon the rights of others. I have nothing against Christian groups (or any other religion) preaching their beliefs, such as anti-abortion beliefs, to the pulpit. I have nothing against them forming such charities, though I am sceptical about their methods and beliefs. I have no right to interfere with their beliefs, so long as it doesn’t impact the rights of others.
However, my main gripe is that the reciprocation isn’t there. It’s perhaps understandable why they do it, but the influence over state law is too much. They are entitled to their beliefs, but law shouldn’t be based on Christian, Islamic or any other religious belief. That’s what leads to misery for those of use not of that religion.
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I don’t think anyone disagrees that any stage of pregnancy will lead to a baby. The idea that they are babies, as BPG suggested*, is nonsense and the sort of rhetoric commonly used for emotional purposes.
The problem I have is that Christian ‘pro-lifers’ don’t give one hoot about life after birth, as all their decisions suggest (speaking as a generalisation), and they consider something with no sentience to be far more worth than the woman, as seen with the ridiculous attacks on women’s freedoms in recent months. No care whatsoever about that from the moralists who love preaching to others about their self-righteousness.
*An understandable argument from ideologues who want to frame it as murder. Acknowledging the fact that they are not babies makes the murder charge seem far more hollow. And, frankly, all claims to reasonable discourse on this is impossible from the pro-life side until they let the ridiculous murder charge slide. No-one sees it as impressive when murder, or even Holocaust, analogies are wheeled out. It just makes us roll eyes and think of ideological nutters who should be ignored. Rightfully so, outside of countries with theocratic impulses.
You don’t think the unborn are embryos, zygotes or foetuses? That is ridiculous, no matter what the opinion is on the issue.
Marxists have a lot more in common with BPG than he likes to admit. Both Marxists and Christian theocrats are obsessed with moral purity for their cause and their proponents have interfered with how the population live their lives, in accordance with their ideology. Ironically, both accuse the moderate of enabling the other.
Who cares? We may be one of the few nations who take women’s football more seriously, but that’s damning of other nations that don’t.
We have beaten the best side in women’s European history today, and the first team to beat them in a final. Let’s celebrate that. We don’t need to compare it to men’s football. Of course the men would beat them; their biology makes it so. That doesn’t make the achievement any less valid or worthy. We have won the tournament, and it doesn’t matter about the difference between the sexes. We have a men’s game and women’s game because the latter won’t be able to compete with the men, so they can achieve. We should be proud that our country is one of those who have taken the women’s game more seriously (in more recent years, in particular) and the Lionesses have done the country proud. They did the country proud and that game was far more enjoyable than the Italy game last year. I felt they were far more willing to push for the win.
Three lions on a shirt. Jules Rimet still gleaming. No more years of hurt! We can drink it in tonight!
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We need to showcase the game to the footballing hotbed of Qatar! It was absolutely vital that FIFA found an accommodating time period, when the temperature isn’t too high, for this important nation to host the tournament. It would have been unfathomable to look for an alternative location which is more suited and wouldn’t have as many dead migrant workers (the show is more important than their safety, they should realise that), because we would be starved of seeing football in the glamour of Doha! Oh, and FIFA wouldn’t have made as much money from bribes!
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Yawn
I do think Gurny does come across as patronising. Some of his points are very valid, but he doesn’t seem to see the human on the other side as being of equal agency.
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