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Dawson was a pretty good footballer as well as winning most of his tackles. Also refereed most games – always in the refs ear.
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Too small a sample size to judge.
We will probably be returning to a back 5 once the centre backs have got through their yellow card suspensions.
Interesting to see Man U playing a more expensive version of Butlerball yesterday. Centre backs that can’t pass forward and wing backs that don’t know how to play the position. Outnumbered in midfield and no service to the forwards. Initiative handed to lesser skilled opposition.
Just like watching the Iron.
Just the kind of searing insight we have come to expect.
Or alternatively 1.7 points a game with a back 5 – which doesn’t win automatic promotion.
Or 3 points per game with a back 4 – which of course does win automatic promotion.
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Great highlights IFA thanks for sharing. Not seen anything of this quality in non league.
Good commentators who had done their research and could even pronounce Maxim’s name. They didn’t try Carlton ‘s surname and did call us the Iron’s once but I’ll let them away with that. Better than Matterface and Dixon on ITV but accept that’s a low bar.
Replays of key moments and topped of by a very fair interview with their manager. Credit to Leamington.
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Unless he has Denton at centre back and Brogan at left wing back.
Would be bonkers of course but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen.
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All sweetness and light on here under Hilton.
First thing the new man might want to look at on the analysis side of the new role is why in 21 competitive games (of which we have won 9) we only ever win if we keep a clean sheet.
It got me wondering if any other teams suffer from this problem. Out of 164 teams in the top 6 tiers of English football there are only 6 other teams that cannot win if the other team score.
Of these 4 are firmly in the relegation zone in their leagues so by default have not actually won many games. They are Cambridge United, Boston, Ebbsfleet and Enfield. They have actually had the same number of victories between them as the Iron have managed.
The other 2 are Preston who are only outside the relegation places by a goal difference of 1 goal and Stevenage who are in 15th place in League 1 – 5 points above the relegation zone. Much like ourselves they have developed a recent habit of conceding goals and losing games. Just reflect on that for a minute – 157 teams have managed to win a game despite conceding a goal but we have never managed it in 11 games against some pretty mediocre opposition.
The omens do not look good if we continue to only have a chance of winning a game if we keep a clean sheet – move to a back 6 or a back 7 anyone? We pretty much tried that at Scarborough and it did not end well. I don’t think their keeper had a save to make.
Leaving aside formations for the moment are there any fundamental issues contributing to this situation?
Could it be the players? Is the team mentality really that weak that conceding a goal ends all hope of winning a game. We certainly went to pieces at Southport, Spennymoor and at home against Rylands when we conceded. A very similar bunch of players won quite a number of games last season after conceding.
Tactics? We have seen 2 main responses from the coaching staff to conceding. Flood the team with substitutes and/or hoof the ball forward very forcefully. Never seen either of these bear fruit as yet. I think we have tentatively switched to a back four a couple of times but probably more often brought off our best attacker of the day (Roberts, Carlton, Whitehall or Beestin at various times) often for an additional defender.
Whatever the reason in the eleven games we have not won (i.e. that we conceded in) we have demonstrated an alarming lack of resilience for a full time professional team supposedly the fittest and highest paid in the League.
Probably a bigger issue than 5 at the back for our current poor league position (relative to the fans, managers and boards expectations) – although I am sure some would say that might be a contributory factor.
Whilst we wait for the new man to start feeding his analysis to the coaching team any suggestions to be directed to them care of the Attis Arena.
Funny, as I remember people complaining about Wilcox leaving no forwards up front when defending corners over 10 years ago.
Towards the end of his world record breaking run he left no forwards up front full stop.
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Given the tawdry state of professional football I would applaud Michelle for being good to her word regarding the contract.
After Swann and Hilton a welcome return to a level of integrity that we have previously had as a football club.
I think it fair that Butler gets us promoted or falls on his sword. Michelle hinted that the contract has provisions in place should he need a little push.
I was on here pre season suggesting we don’t have the players for 5-3-2 and have seen nothing to change my mind. The recruitment either recent or pre season has not changed our ability to play the system.
I’m still hoping Butler will change rather than the club having to change him but I have cancelled my planned Leamington and Darlo trips. Not doing any more away games until I can expect 5 or so hours of travel might be rewarding by seeing more tha 5 minutes of half decent football.
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Good move for him. Needs to be playing at this stage if he is going to build a professional career.
We struggle to give our own a decent run of games and Butler seems to mistrust anyone under 25.
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Unless his game has changed significantly since he was here before he plays either where Roberts or Beestin play. Not as good as the first and not as reliable or hard working as the second.
Certainly not the silver bullet for the 5-3-2 system.
Hope he’s not a replacement for a departing Roberts in January.
Less a change of system I’m afraid, more Butlers response as to why his system isn’t working lately.
Can’t be the 7 defensive players. They are only gifting poor teams about 3 goals a game – apart from Radcliffe who were not even good enough to accept their gift invitations.
It must be those useless attackers. The 4 of them can’t even dominate an 8 or 9 man defence.
At least Luke can take residence of the Jordan Hallam memorial physio bench now Roberts and Beestin (thankfully) have stopped sharing it.
He might have to push Law aside – not a difficult task based on his few cameo appearances.
Don’t know what Turnbull did that warranted termination but it must have been bad to have beaten a couple of more obvious candidates out of the door.
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3-5-2 (more often 5-3-2 in our version) needs three things:
At least one centre back who can pass the ball consistently well
2 wing backs who offer a constant threat in attack
A holding midfielder that can (and loves to) tackleWe didn’t have any of those 4 before recruitment and sadly we didn’t have any once it was completed. Honourable mention to Barrows who has adjusted just about enough to be an OK wing back at this level.
I can see why we recruited Carlton although yet to deliver. The rest baffle me if this was the only formation in play.
Did Butler recruit for 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 and then get swayed to the dark side by Schofield? He did arrive post recruitment. One assumes Turnbull had some influence on recruitment and that didn’t end well.
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I would question the judgement and intelligence of anyone involved in professional sport allowing that to be videoed.
Surely traits we would expect to see in top class referees.
Prem I think you (and Rylands) could have a pretty accurate guess as to how Butler will play it.
We closed them down 4 or 5 times in the first half. We created attacking situations and won free kicks in dangerous areas on the back of this. They were determined to play out from the back but they weren’t actually very good at it.
Could not believe it when we actually backed off them and let them do it.
If you are going to insist on a very rigid game plan then it better be a good one and it had better deliver.
I have seen every game this season (2 or 3 via streaming) apart from Newcastle away and I have no idea what our game plan is.
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If I had a clue what you were talking about I would respond.
Worked OK with Rod Fletcher.
Butler just on Humberside confirming he has the final say on recruitment and doesn’t sign players he doesn’t want.
Admitted the squad needs expanding but only with players that are ready for the first team. Seemed to discount loanees certainly young ones.
We have enough divisive and toxic resident posters without needing it from visitors.
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It’s all immaterial anyway. Butler is going to stand or fall by his formation.
I would give Shrimpton a go because he is prepared to tackle and will give Buxton’s bully boys a bit back. On the few occasions he has had a run of games (here or Spennymoor) he starts to play a bit of football.
Not writing Scales and Clunan off but they have had many chances and dont run the midfield even in games we have won.
Fitz
Barrows Kouogan Evans (Boyce) Denton
Roberts Shrimpton Beestin Brogan
Whitehall (Fishburn) CarltonLet’s give the midget none tackling midfield a break, save Nicholson from himself and Carlton a chance to get match fit. The ones in brackets if first choices not fit.
Suggested Scales would be good at RWB a few times but Roberts aside Barrows is the player who has adapted quickest and best to Butlers formation.
Denton is still like a fish out of water and only one of our 4 centre backs can successfully pass the ball more than 10 yards and he’s injured.
Whatever you think about our midfield or forwards our inability to play Butlers formation start with the back line. Nothing against Boyce and Kouogan. They are very decent back four defenders at this level as they showed many times last season. Denton was probably in the top 3 players for the club last season playing as a full back. None of them have the attributes to play this system. As for Nicholson we cannot keep playing someone who sends simple passes direct to the feet of opposition 3 or 4 times every game.
I refuse to join the Butler out hysteria whilst the team is top of the league but would remind him of the old definition of insanity. Keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.
Find a system that suits the players you have or go find the players that would make your system work.
At a bare minimum this would need:
A centre back with pace that can pass the ball
A centre midfield player who relishes the fight and can win aerial challenges
A right sided wingback with some pace and purpose
A forward that can play with WhitehallThat team would win this league at a canter barring serious injuries. Imagine how bad we could be if Beestin and/or Roberts pick up significant injuries.
Ignoring the vitriol that comes from Patrick’s association with our former owner he makes some good points and speaks with much experience of running very successful event food outlets.
Unlike me who’s culinary skills start and end with toast based cuisine.
Was it just me or did I spot a little bit of football being played when we went 4-4-2?
Better to be lucky than good.
Butler stays top of the league. Unbelievable Jeff.
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It’s what happens at Spennymoor.
Footy food has to address its biggest single challenge. You have two fairly short windows to serve 90% of your product. From about 14:30 until just before kick off then again at half time with about 5 minutes either side.
During these times you want your staff passing out food and drinks, taking payment and moving on. Maybe having one adding food options (peas, gravy, onions etc.) and maybe another pouring drinks.
Cooking stuff and messing about with multi options is bad news for vendors and punters alike.
Menu for hot food should be no more than 5 or 6 and only things that can be batch prepared and ready to rock for the 2 peaks. No expensive catering equipment needed to keep things warm and edible for 30 minutes. Soft drinks and beer in plastic bottles. The club are surely missing out on an earner not selling beer while they can.
The few times I have had decent footy food it invariably follows these principles and the vast majority of times has been done in partnership with businesses that know how to do event food.
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