[Jasper Parrot]

The PFA generally tends to side with players when there’s doubt: kinda the point of having a union really.

All I’m saying is we don’t know the truth. We’re just guessing.

Club will need to be able to evidence their claims more than Taft will. Presumption is that Taft had a contract so should get paid according to it.

Still a wait-and-see thing though.

[Jasper Parrot]

Northumbiron wrote:

Isn’t this back to where we were when everyone wanted Swann out?

One big difference.

There was a winding-up order in place and Swann was willing to stand by and watch us go bust. The only chance of not-dying was to lose Swann.

This time, there are still financial problems left over from Swann but by and large they’re improving.

If Hilton resigns today, the club needs a miracle to survive.

[Jasper Parrot]

DH is quoted on SFFB as saying “I’ve had Taft come out playing the victim but what people don’t know is that he refused to play the final 5 games, he signed for another club with a signing on fee but told them to withheld the registration so he could con another 6k from Us and people wonder why I’m not paying him.”

I have no idea whether a) Hilton said it and it’s true, or b) Hilton didn’t say it at all, or c) Hilton did say it but it’s not true. Most likely it’s d) – the club and Taft have different perspectives on the same situation, and that dispute needs to be resolved before a payment is or isn’t made.

[Jasper Parrot]

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[Jasper Parrot]

Iron Age wrote:

Another point of view.

https://www.buxtonadvertiser.co.uk/sport/football/buxton-boss-craig-elliott-bitterly-disappointed-to-be-ordered-to-replay-scunthorpe-united-game-after-stoppage-time-abandonment-4298511

It’s selective rather than wrong. The abandonment was really harsh on Buxton. That’s true. It’s just, everything that happened in the previous 94 minutes with that clown of a referee was what led to Buxton being 2-1 up in the first place. Or having as many as 10 men on the pitch.

[Jasper Parrot]

Anonymous wrote:

Peter Kay did well with his phoenix club.

Only when playing nights. Afternoons, they were terrible.

[Jasper Parrot]

The interview sounded like ‘goodbye’ will happen. Whether by luck or design, we’re in a stronger position than we were when he said ‘hello’.

[Jasper Parrot]

TheJuryeffsOut wrote:

Yes, excellent post. I understand there is a referee assessor at every game at this level and that one of the reasons all games have to be filmed is for ref assessment.

If the Match Referee is awarded a mark below 60 from the Assessor, the club is obliged to send the video to the National League. Failure to send the video results in a £100 fine for the club.

[Jasper Parrot]

1899 scheme good idea in principle. Botched implementing the thing. If they fixed it I’d join.

[Jasper Parrot]

Any actual evidence that Hilton tried and failed to get £3.5 million?

IF you were right, then we already know Swann valued the land at £5.2 million in around November 2019 (see May 2021 Shareholder and Fans Update), and property prices have gone up quite a lot since then. You’ve just provided a solid reason to suggest Swann doesn’t actually want to sell…and answered Cliff Byrne’s Right Peg’s question.

At least some of Hilton’s details clearly aren’t made up because we can see them for ourselves.

[Jasper Parrot]

I think I misread your post. Sorry. I hadn’t realised you were talking about the previous sale.

The sale TO Coolsilk in April 2021 was only of the land wasn’t it? Not sure if Coolsilk and the football club counted as Group companies, but they might have done.

The sale FROM Coolsilk to Hilton (or the club or whoever) wouldn’t be, because they’re clearly separate entities and there isn’t a Going Concern being transferred in 2023.

1 user thanked author for this post.

SST

[Jasper Parrot]

SST wrote:

With regards to the ACV, did Swann have an obligation to notify the council if it was a transfer of a going concern between group companies? This suggests not: https://www.holmes-hills.co.uk/news/2022/march/assets-of-community-value-beware-the-pitfalls/

I am fairly sure he did, but not 100%. IANAL.

If the club and land had been sold together, I can see it being a Transfer of a Going Concern. They weren’t. The transactions for sale of the club and sale of the ground have been separated out. The club was sold for a nominal figure (£1) with Hilton acquiring the debts. That means this probably isn’t a Transfer of a Going Concern, because the Going Concern has already been transferred.

This is now a simple sale of an asset, subject to the ACV protections.

[Jasper Parrot]

Cliff Byrne’s Right Peg wrote:

I’ll ask the same question that I asked of Hilton. What is the end game for Swann if he is playing games?

This presumes that Swann is a rational actor, even in his own self-interest. Some people aren’t. Could Swann be a gambler or fantasist by nature? He hopes to be able to sell the land on the open market for more. A pipe dream, yes, but does he believe that?

The ground has an agreement for the club to play there for 99 years doesn’t it ?

The only reference I’ve seen to that is the mention in Swann’s statement of a Heads of Terms in May 2021. We were supposed to get a 99-year right, and market rent only payable once the club is sustainable.

A Heads of Terms is a pre-contract agreement. Was a contract ever signed? Is anything enforceable?

Swann claimed at the time that right would lapse if the club can relocate to new facilities at least as good as the old.

I don’t know how water tight that is as Swann implemented it.

Swann clearly doesn’t think it’s watertight (if indeed it exists) if he’s threatening to kick us out of the ground next week?

I’d be highly sceptical that Swann will get planning permission for anything worthwhile and the opposition would be as militant as anything you’re going to see in North Lincolnshire.

You know that. I know that. Is Swann self-absorbed enough that he overvalues the land in his own mind, and overvalues the chances of getting planning permission?

The random, unregistered strip of land has appeared from somewhere though, these things aren’t missed on a standard property transaction, let alone a 15 acre site worth millions.

It must exist surely. Where could that strip be? Don’t suppose it’s part of the access road? But then why wasn’t it sorted before?

[Jasper Parrot]

TheJuryeffsOut wrote:

Looking at your point 2 it says nominated by Scunthorpe United Supporters Society Limited. Did Swann even know ?

Sorry, I was slightly inaccurate there. In my memory I’d confused the ACV with the Heads of Terms (they’re both in the same Swann statement from May 2021).

Swann agreed with the principle of the Asset of Community Value (but wanted it to be done slightly differently) and claimed he hadn’t been consulted.

He certainly knew the rules though, which is the point! As Swann explained to fans, “It gives the group about an initial six weeks for consultation and a further 20 weeks to come up with a bid and finances, thus delaying any potential sale of the asset to a new buyer.”

https://www.scunthorpe-united.co.uk/news/2021/may/shareholder-and-fans-update/

1 user thanked author for this post.

TheJuryeffsOut

[Jasper Parrot]

I’m nervous. We’re all nervous. We should be nervous. Our club is hanging by a thread. Swann was a bad club owner. We’re hurt. We’re human. There’s a temptation to assume all owners are the same. Might not be true though.

What do we know?

Swann was a disaster for the club.
We had an unpaid tax bill under Swann.
The club was on the point of going bust before Hilton.
Swann was not honest with us.
Swann had many schemes planned which didn’t actually happen.
Swann fell out with the Council.
Swann had other issues (see gambling debts court case) going on.

What is most likely to be true?

In my opinion Swann has a history of moving goalposts.
Previous bids to buy the club were supposedly all agreed then fell through. What put off other consortiums? I think we all suspect Swann was at fault, but we can’t prove it.
In my opinion there are genuine problems with the GP land purchase.
If Hilton goes, the club probably dies. Phoenix club won’t be easy.

What has Hilton done?

He bought the club, knowing it could go bust if he didn’t. He saved the club. Temporarily at least.
He’s brought in a lot of players in a desperate attempt to keep us up.
He hired the wrong manager for the National League. Could be the right guy for National League North. Who knows?
We’ve made a lot of signings early and they seem higher level than National League North.
The training ground wobble was bad.
The 1899 club. Good idea, launched too early.

Hilton has been mixed so far. I think the positives have outweighed the negatives.

What don’t we know?

Whose fault it is (Swann, Hilton, or both) about the land sale problems.
Lots of details because this could end up in court.
We want details. We’re probably not going to get them. We have to deal with that.

What should we believe?

We’ve all spent years saying Swann should go. Swann was a disaster for this club.
I don’t think Swann now makes a credible ‘witness’ to support a case that Hilton is bad.

For now we should assume that Hilton is telling the truth until it’s actually proven otherwise.

What should we do?

Give him 1 full season from now. Let him do his thing, and then judge the results. No progress on and off the pitch by then, I’ll be as negative as some posters are now.

10 users thanked author for this post.

Just Iron, BarnardFoxtonBarker.., SODIron, RoamingBull, , Sharp_Shooter24, Cliff Byrne's Right Peg, MK Iron, B.gray, lesgeo

[Jasper Parrot]

Fans would be forgiven for having zero trust in the word of any chairman, ever, at Glanford Park (you might know it as the Sands Venue Stadium) ever again.

I would have been prepared to support the weird Ilkeston-training-move because I think Hilton’s earned a bit of latitude.

BUT great to see a chairman actually listing to fans!!!!

6 users thanked author for this post.

Sharp_Shooter24, Just Iron, Iron-awe, BarnardFoxtonBarker.., , Awaywego

[Jasper Parrot]

Can’t believe these numbers. You’re right about youngsters though. Best chance is parachute payment plus loan written off plus new chairman puts some money in plus a big club makes us offer we can’t refuse for Cribb. Long shot.

[Jasper Parrot]

1 point. About 2 more than we deserved. At least we’re seeing some effort.

2 users thanked author for this post.

alcazar, iron64

[Jasper Parrot]

we have a mountain to climb not a hill

1 user thanked author for this post.

alcazar

[Jasper Parrot]

cassidystash wrote:

Apparently 95% are under 18 and the others include Alan Knill and Mike Bassett

At least Mike Bassett would play Four Four F…Two.

[Jasper Parrot]

Oh yeah & i wanna be the 1st to say HILL OUT!. Bragging rights.

Nothing against the guy but it doesn’t pay to become too attached to our managers.

1 user thanked author for this post.

alcazar

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