[Gurnelista]

Just to get back on track for a moment…

The BBC is excellent and one of this country’s crown jewels. But that’s not to say it’s perfect. Last week we saw Fiona Bruce say that Johnson’s dad had only hit his wife once, which she dismissed as if unimportant, despite evidence he’d hit her on repeated occasions. Bruce subsequently resigned from her post as ‘ambassador’ for a domestic violence charity and quite right too, it was a stupid remark.

Perhaps more serious was the way on which the BBC interviewed expert economists and others during the Brexit campaign, and for ‘balance’ they also interviewed Kippers and others, most of whom were thicker than a whale omelette. Now, if everyone can see it’s raining outside and someone says ‘no, the sun’s shining’, you don’t interview the ‘shiners’ in the name of balance! Yet, this is what happened on too many occasions. Complete idiots were treated with deference / reverence, as if they were experts.

Same with Johnson – he’s a proven liar and deserves to be called out when he tells lies, yet auntie failed and fails still, to do this on numerous occasions.

And then there’s this ‘ere chairman, a man with no experience in broadcasting, and one who has does big favours for Johnson, and compromises the ‘arm’s length’ principle of the BBC.

Despite these weaknesses it has proved a reliable source of info during Covid and still is a leading source on international news, such as the reporting from Ukraine, which is why the rest of the world looks to it as a beacon of excellence, and totalitarian governments fear and ban it.

Privatise the news, and what are you left with? Trump-supporting conspiracy stations like G-Beebies and Sky, with an avalanche of adverts in which the first casualty is truth. In fact the news itself would become like an advert… for the liars and charlatans on the far-right. Why? Because it suits the agenda of those funding them, and because it’s so easy for others to pay/sponsor a broadcaster to churn out sensational, exaggerated and plain untrue stories about foreigners, scroungers, teachers, doctors, lefties… all without a shred of evidence.

Yep, the BBC has it’s problems, but the way in which it’s funded allows it to keep at arms length from government, and consistently be the best there is, not only at news but at bringing the country together. That’s because it can commission programmes which are not necessarily profitable, but are nevertheless important, e.g. documentaries about history, nature, science and so on, even religious programmes which I resent but accept. That’s in contrast to channels of wall to wall commercial ‘messages’ interspersed with game shows, etc. – as informative, educational and entertaining as an ocular migraine.

All that said, the BBC has two of the most annoying people on TV – Winkleperson and Balding. Aye, shut it down now!

[Gurnelista]

BI Mr Perfect – maintaining his record of being wrong about everything as usual! The Peter Swann of non-football!

The government is criticised for using language that only 20 years ago would have been the language of the BNP, and BI’ waffles about taxpayers’ rights.

The public has every right to be concerned about this government’s nefarious back-door influence on the BBC, which is becoming commonplace…
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/bbc-editors-asked-journalists-avoid-210844842.html

Unsurprisingly, many presenters have been critical of government policy for some time. Although there are rules about it, they are not clear given how social media has evolved, and consequently enforcement has been lax. BI’s list is selective, but here’s a longer one….
https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/gary-lineker-singled-long-list-201937853.html

But, far from damaging the BBC, the widespread support for Lineker’s comments shows how much the Tories are hated inside and outside the corporation. It also shows how BI’s fictitious ‘taxpayer’ (how 1980s! – millions don’t pay tax but still have a voice) expects the BBC not to bow to government pressure, and to respect the free expression of views by freelancers, particularly when they involve criticism of language used by the government being redolent of 1930s Germany.

I expect the Tories love a freelancer because they’re relatively easy to hire and fire. Now it seems they want to muzzle them too.

As for BBC staff being very unhappy – I’m not surprised. The low pay, the creeping managerialism, the increasing attempts by government to shut them up…. Why, I know quite a few senior people at the BBC, including one journalist currently on a flagship news programme. It’s an open secret that many of the staff are uncomfortable that Lineker was initially singled out for special treatment when he’s not even a BBC employee. So, it’s hardly surprising that those on a fraction of his income will feel satisfied with the outcome when he often says what they are thinking, but not permitted to say. (Thanks, BI)

And BI, just listen to yourself when you’re sounding off about “Lineker’s morals”. Egregious hypocrisy straight from the Daily Mail! In many respects the government you still slavishly support tries to behave just like the Qataris – they attempt to control the media, they have little respect workers’ rights, little respect for human rights, and they ignore as much as they can the kind of legislation designed to protect them. They hate anyone who opposes, and would delight in being able to shut them up Qatari style – hence the attempts to strong-arm the BBC into submission. OK, so at least they don’t use religion as a fig leaf to justify these abuses. But you really need to own these contradictions and own up.

3 users thanked author for this post.

Iron-awe, Heath, TwoWrights

[Gurnelista]

Many use religion as a camouflage for hurtful and bigoted opinions, as it frequently gets them a ‘free pass’ and is excused if it’s part of someone’s faith. But it shouldn’t be. It should be called out and challenged.

When we hear from the religious right that ‘abortion is morally wrong’, or ‘women shouldn’t have babies outside wedlock’ and so on… rather than meekly commenting ‘Oh I see, it’s your religious belief, so you can carry on exercising your rights over other people’s bodies and lives or at least supporting those organisations that do just that’, it’s important to oppose this sort of closed-minded bigotry, no matter whether the origin is Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Jedi…

Thankfully, church and state have been separate for centuries in this country, which without doubt has enabled human rights to progress in a ways which have not been possible in many others, particularly the rights of women, gays, and minorities in general. Everyone should be grateful for this enlightenment and de-throning of religious authority, rather than longing for a return to darkness, bigotry and deference to superstition.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Heath

[Gurnelista]

It’s like with all religious concepts – the only place it exists is in people’s heads.

[Gurnelista]

It’s because of the council elections, which aren’t far away.

To seek the votes of the frightened and angry, they have to make folk think about something other than the state of the NHS/schools/high energy prices/food shortages/dirty rivers/the cost of living and inflation/the consequences of Brexit…. and instead blame foreigners in general and refugees in particular, especially as they are so dramatically visible in small boats. Never mind the fact the Tories have had 13 years to sort this out.

Paradoxically,the biggest consumers of this red meat live in areas where immigration is low, such as north Lincs., compared to pretty much any big town/city. That’s because if you’ve been brought up in a classroom with kids from ten different countries around you, you’d think nothing of it. Yet if you were brought up in a classroom where the kids all looked like you, talked like you and so on, you’d be much more susceptible to all the anti-immigration rhetoric/lies put about in the popular press and by parties such as UKIP.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Heath

[Gurnelista]

Iron-awe wrote:

Some in our society have become uncaring and cruel beyond belief, unfortunately social media is a very convenient place for them to hide.

64 wrote:

the British are just as bad as Americans it seems

When it came to Brexit many Brits showed themselves as gullible/extreme as their Republican cousins. There was UKIP and their camp commanders, planning to inflict more damage on the UK than anything since the Luftwaffe, while the so-called patriots cheered them on.

We saw it on here – BI on how great it would all be, post-Brexit, JustLes and the Or-nott the same, with that BS about sovereignty and control, chucking red meat to all the gullible flag-waving fools they knew congregated social media… “Repost on Facebook!” Remember that exhortation? I wouldn’t be surprised if some want to come round their houses for a chat about it now, such is the nature of modern politics.

[Gurnelista]

Good to know you’re capable of fine distinctions, AWG!

[Gurnelista]

billpuntonsghost wrote:

..your critical theory agenda is the only one you embrace,Gurnelista- for obvious reasons.

So where does your God stand on sexist/racist/homphobic comments, Bill?

[Gurnelista]

While other understand the basics very well, but say nothing because it suits their agenda.

[Gurnelista]

I just saw ‘Daria 27 from Ukraine’ appear under the ‘New Signings’ thread.
Is this a new ploy to grow the attendance?

[Gurnelista]

Deereyme66 wrote:

Who’s Sir David Hilton White??

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/scunthorpe-united-sign-five-new-8104157

I wondered the same – think it’s an error. I couldn’t find Sir DHW anywhere on the WWW.
Speaking of titled Ironistas, what’s Baron Botham doing with himself these days?

[Gurnelista]

It’s like with religion. Any criticism – just say it’s wrong.
Just have faith in the idea/policy/deity, and it will never be falsified.

[Gurnelista]

We won tonight and got rid of Prawn, but it’s still grim when Sleaford Mods meet Cold War Steve…

[Gurnelista]

Aye, and there was Farage and his camp followers, playing to the masses with their quick, easy snake-oil cure for austerity, and then the Tories followed suit, playing equally dirty to win back the votes they were losing.

Johnson made it worse, playing to the ERG, normalising lying, breaking his own rules, and undermining the legal framework designed to keep governments accountable. Caught breaking the rules? Then we’ll tear up the rule book!

He prioritised personal ambition over truth over decency and honesty, and the same ethic or lack of them ran through the party. Anyone with integrity was forced out or to resign, leaving the sleazy, incompetent skip fire of a government we have at present, an attitude of ‘every man for himself’ until they finally get booted out of office.

General strike to bring on an election, anyone?

[Gurnelista]

JI – I’d suggest you have a lot of unresolved, personal issues which your faith helps you to deal with.

And that’s fine. But you also see disagreement over religious views on a lowly football website as a threat to your identity and self-esteem, which is typical of those needing professional help.

Alas, your comments on here also suggest a number of bigoted, prejudiced opinions on women’s rights, racism, homophobia and websites preaching hate, in a perverse interpretation of Christianity.

So, don’t be surprised when others spot all this and can’t be bothered to reply, any more than they would to an abusive drunk shouting at the South Yorks. Stagecoach.

An objective truth is this: many on here are atheists. We recognise some folk need religion in their lives, but resent the fundamentalist preaching, especially of hate, to stoke a culture war against some of the most marginalised in society. Just get over it, JI.

[Gurnelista]

64 wrote:

<iframe title=”BBC 3CR – Iain Lee vs. Christian Bigotry” src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/z6PZj5gSfoA?feature=oembed&#8221; allow=”accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share” allowfullscreen=”” id=”fitvid0″ frameborder=”0″></iframe>

Interesting post 64 – it’s good to see more radio presenters actually challenging callers’ bigotry. See how the woman is moved almost to tears when her cherished views are shown to be prejudiced and intolerant under the weight of the presenter’s humanity. She knows she’s wrong but can’t bring herself to admit it.
Others, when provoked through disagreement, become aggressive and insulting. It’s a common response when there’s psychological dissonance. The weakness of cherished beliefs is made clear and they find it deeply upsetting, but this sort of bigotry needs calling out.
Y’know, if Jesus were alive today, he wouldn’t be a Christian.

[Gurnelista]

You and your fingers discredit your religion, JI. It’s not good for your health, either, it’ll increase your heart rate and blood pressure.

Now, pull up a chair and read carefully… you must realise there’s no point in anyone bothering to argue when your views are so unbalanced they make the Titanic look stable. It’s like debating with those who come door to door trying to recruit Jehovah’s Witnesses or some other variety. I usually recommend a good book by Mr Darwin and close the door. Anything else is a complete waste of time. And that’s what I’ll do here.

I’ll add this though… psychiatrists really don’t argue with barmy patients, even though bigoted lunacy has not been unusual on the political right in recent years. But engaging with it has been a big failing of the BBC, particularly with its Brexit coverage. The whole campaign was based around emotion, feeling and belief – just like faith – rather than fact and reason, so alongside the experts, the corporation interviewed base idiots and fantasists in the name of ‘balance’. Ridiculous.

Another thing is the similarity between your posts and Lesgeo’s. The same preoccupations with faith, Catholicism and Brexit. Yet, he who was once so voluble on non-football, has surely taken a vow of silence! Which is understandable, I suppose, given how things have turned out. I’m sure nobody would think you were connected.

Now, go away, pour yourself a large scotch, settle down and listen to something soothing by Sounds Like Rain.

[Gurnelista]

Haha, after hearing this it’s both!
Agree with IA here, evolution does maintain interest rather than stagnation and arrogantly performing same old same old with a ‘take it or leave it’ attitude. But it sometimes poses a problem when artists want to evolve and change but fans just want the old stuff – has been a problem for Bowie, Stones, McCartney etc etc.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Iron-awe, Siderite

[Gurnelista]

Aye, even the blindest of followers have questioned their faith in the party and realised it was all wrong. When the facts change, when new information emerges, what else is a reasonable person to do but change their minds?

[Gurnelista]

Amen to that! But would you agree, IA?

[Gurnelista]

Just Iron wrote:

‘Engaging in serious discussion with people who believe in such things is rarely fruitful because when challenged, they change the topic, shift the focus, say things weren’t interpreted correctly, etc. They get defensive and feel threatened, patronise and insult.’

At least one thing we agree on, Gurney. So if we ever lock horns again don’t do it. You definitely managed to slime this thread in the end … it must incense you that someone laid out a reasoned and coherent faith position that pierced the dismissiveness and even drew one or two respectful comments. How about staying away from the gaslighting and caricaturing. A start would be to lay out your own personal vision and be willing to articulate it. I, for one, would promise not to ridicule, misrepresent or mock you.

And here we have a perfect example of the kind of defensive, patronising and insulting attitude which is the hallmark of those whose beliefs are threatened.

PS a reasoned and coherent faith position is a contradiction in terms. Reason requires facts and logic. Faith requires neither. It’s in the realm of the irrational, which you evidently prefer, JI.

[Gurnelista]

Haha, some good comments, have to agree with most, Layla and other jukebox hits do tend to grate these days. Right too, about session musicians who never got/get the credit they deserve, like Jon Herrington in Steely Dan, or those guys that work with John Mclaughlin currently (Mbappe? and a lad from Leeds) and many, many others, like James Jameson on all those Tamla hits. Mind you, I still like that Jackson/McCartney song Say Say Say – especially the strong, tight brass on it. The stuff Macca did with Wings got terrible criticism at the time but needs revision, even Band on the Run (though not Mull of Kintyre)! ELO seemed a natural extension of that furrow, at least for a while.

[Gurnelista]

Funny and ireverrent, DM!
As for Clapton or Beck… maybe it needs a separate thread, but to kick off, both have immense back catalogues and have both been influential in the development of rock/pop. For me, Beck is perhaps more inventive and original but sometimes this comes at the expense of feeling/expression (though not in the hypnotic clip above). I often hear too much ‘noodling’ and virtuosity in his playing. On the other hand, as well as being perhaps the greatest guitarist, Clapton also sings and composes very well, the exception being his sentimental ballads eg Wonderful Tonight (too sickly I think).

[Gurnelista]

Good quote, NI and so relevant to so much today.

Still no comment from JI on those websites! They really are shameful, don’t you think, JI? I can’t imagine why you don’t want to say something about how they ended up on here.

Black lesbian? See the thread ‘Same Old Same Old’. You wrote: “When I tried to phone nobody knew that I was an Afro Caribbean lesbian.” Which of course, you may be, but I doubt it. Outing your own sexual preference might offend Him upstairs, and even go against His will, no?

Lizards? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_conspiracy_theory

Engaging in serious discussion with people who believe in such things is rarely fruitful because when challenged, they change the topic, shift the focus, say things weren’t interpreted correctly, etc. They get defensive and feel threatened, patronise and insult.

It’s a way of protecting their own, deeply held beliefs. Because, if the beliefs are shown to be wrong, they can fall apart as a person, and it’s not pretty. It’s all on show above. Some even make a living out of it on tv and radio – Jeremy Kyle, James O’Brien?

It’s not dissimilar to those passionate Brexiters, for whom the difference between fantasy and reality now knows no bounds. They were had, codded and done. Kippered, in fact, and they know it. No wonder they want to move on and not talk about it.

[Gurnelista]

And what about those vile websites, JI? What say you about those links to lies, disinformation and racism? A Trappist monk would be proud of your silence! Come on man!

There’s an interesting similarity on here between those on the far-right, those who have strong religion, and those who campaigned hardest for Brexit.

It all revolves around belief. So, if strongly held beliefs are shown to be wrong, the fanatics just come up with some excuse, typically something like “you’re misrepresenting it” or “it wasn’t done right”, or with evolution we often hear “it’s not like they say, it’s wrong, God directed us” etc. etc.

We’ve seen this since Darwin. We hear it about Brexit every day. And what do the fanatics do? They believe harder, and ramble on to shift the ground and take the conversation in another direction – because the theory must never be falsified! It’s like they’re trying to fool themselves as much as they are the general public.

When their beliefs about the end of the world, or the Royal family’s lizard-like genes are challenged, the mentally ill often do something quite similar.

[Gurnelista]

Always loved this track – the studio version is originally on ‘Wired’ but sounds just as good live, here at Ronnie Scotts. Nicely recorded and filmed, too.
Spot the Wolves fan in the audience….

2 users thanked author for this post.

Iron-awe, Deereyme66

[Gurnelista]

Really JI, all these little put-downs about superiority and suchlike! And there you are telling people to repent! Seems to me that you feel a bit uncertain about it all, and need to reassure yourself with post after encyclopaedic post in defence of your god.

Thing is this, JI. If I were 10-15 years younger I might have launched into a piss-take around miracles, virgin birth, life after death, dinosaurs, dna, even language…. For example, what language does He speak? Aramaic with a Scunny accent? And then there’s the pearly gates, what are they like? Footballer’s gates with gold points and tips? Gothic ‘Game of Thrones’ ones? Nice, genteel English middle-class ones with curly and round bits? And where were they made? Sheffield / Bilbao?

And then there’s the tricky question of evolution, which dismisses the lot!

Your ‘get out’ is to say that God guided us to find these things. But on that basis, the bible can never be falsified! Anything goes, and you can believe whatever you want. It’s a pick n mix, pound shop approach to Christianity! Take whatever you want, it’s all the same price. We could have an alien invasion and life on Mars, and it would be god guiding us! Has he guided us to discover other religions too?

And to finish I might have echoed NI’s earlier comment about Adam’s rib and the impossibility of a man and a woman from those chromosomes.

But now I’m a bit older, I tend towards Sid and others’ view that when it comes to religion it really doesn’t matter what someone believes, as long as it isn’t violent or pushed on other folk. People can and do believe all sorts of weird things based on parental influence, education, and their own troubles and mental state.

However, of more import is that there are some aspects which come from a much darker place, which are full of fake news and disinformation. These websites for example, ones which we’ve been regaled with before on here…..

http://briangemmell.blogspot.com/2016/06
(probably went too far with this – he’s now pushing up daisies)

http://propheticwitnessmovementnewportbranch.blogspot.com/2016/06/before-voting-in-referendum-please.html

(Some of the jonnies’ propaganda on here!)

or, before it was closed down, the extraordinarily racist Truth Wars website.

It’s also evident from an earlier post you find black lesbians rather comical. Actually, I used to know black girl, from Port of Spain, Trinidad. Well, she was bisexual, and you know what? She was one of the nicest, kindest people you could hope to meet. And there you are, taking the piss out of a certain type of person you’ve never met, thinking you’re a good Christian.

And then there’s the delicate issue of abortion, which apparently is a matter of whether you’re “a fan” or not.

And that’s what I don’t like about ‘hard’ religion or the so called religious; the self-righteousness, the hypocrisy, the wish to force it on others in the hope of brownie points in the imagined afterlife, when in fact all they are is part of a PR machine for a product which doesn’t even exist!

I rest my case.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Heath, Iron-awe

[Gurnelista]

Iron-awe wrote:

Bless there you go again, must be a God given intelligence you possess. Blessed are the meek or was it the humble

I think it was the cheesemakers.

[Gurnelista]

A few days old but a fair summary from the Lincoln paper…..

[Gurnelista]

Really, all this wriggling and twisting to explain why we shouldn’t be concerned with what the bible doesn’t say about dinosaurs or fossils! It really is comical.

Much of it is like debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. In fact, if we took the word God out of many of these comments you could be forgiven for thinking the author was a raving loony, with post after post of intensely written guff.

Each to their own, but religion always was a human construct to explain the universe to people who didn’t know any better.

So, what to do? Here’s a suggestion. Most people don’t question the reality they inhabit, or why they see things the way they do, but they should. Why? Because it’s enlightening.

For example, JI, do you ever open your mind and ask yourself questions about why you think the way you do? For example, how reliable are the sources and people who tell you about what’s going on in the world? (Or for that matter, who or what led you to think that someone like Biden is your candidate for Idiot of the Year?)

Do you ever wonder why so many people just think that all religions were just made up; that they are exotic fabrications to explain life, death, disease, suffering, using the best information the society had at the time? That religion was just a way to answer the huge, troubling mysteries, which badly needed a comforting explanation?

Well, with the rise of science and knowledge of evolution, many now don’t see any need to believe in a god. They see ‘holy’ books of all religions for what they are – just made up stories which were created to comfort the masses.

BPG the same – if you only get your information from the popular press and the Church, it’s not surprising you think the way you do. So, if someone comes along and gives you a scientific explanation of the universe, it makes you feel silly. It puts your beliefs under serious threat, so you feel cross with them and either criticise them or ignore them. But you shouldn’t, because by interrogating your own beliefs, asking questions, reading, talking to a variety of intelligent people, you could learn something.

Of course, if you’ve been steeped in religion since birth, it must be so much more difficult to renounce your god, and on a par with leaving a cult. But, help is available. Here’s an example…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovering_from_Religion

OK must go and wash my hair, got a flat earth soc. meet tonight.

4 users thanked author for this post.

TwoWrights, Heath, Iron-awe, Northumbiron

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