Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
‘Our’ money which the EU gives us back? It’s pretty good value really.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48256318
What are you planning to do with the £100 you’ll save AWG? A new car maybe?
You think British unions are somehow better than those abroad? Where did you read that? Evidence???
Since the 1980s there’s been a steady decline in unions power here, with the loss of big industries and their unions – iron, coal, steel, shipbuilding and so on, and a hostile government. Now, most workers are employed in service industries where the unions are much less powerful. But, the decline hasn’t been so marked in other EU countries, where many unions remain strong and influential at protecting workers’ rights, e.g. France.
Vote ‘em out if you’re not happy? This is a silly line which is often used as an argument for Brexit but has no foundation in reality. Look, if you don’t want to work 50 hours per week for 40 hours pay, or you’ve been unfairly dismissed because you refuse to work on Christmas Day, you might not be able to wait for an election.
Johnson knows the UK is about to become a basket case economy, and wants to retain the right to let employers do whatever they like to be able to compete with EU countries. That would likely include the ‘right’ to pay workers even less than now, as well as make it easier to sack people.
As for Bosman, the ability or lack of it for EU players to transfer to and from SUFC is pretty irrelevant compared to the likely consequences for other sectors of the country, economy and society. It’s like saying, “Well you might be dying of cancer, but at least that spot on your nose will heal up.”
No, they aren’t idiots LK, but people have been lied to over and over by those in power, many sections of the mass media, and a very clever campaign on social media, including on here.
The lying has been so bad that in the end folk just don’t trust the government. And, that’s when rumours start and spread, as you’ve seen on IB – “millions of Turks are coming – pass it on!” and elsewhere.
And of course, if you can’t get the proof of your suspicion, it’s because THEY are keeping it from you, there’s a conspiracy! So people just end up believing anything, no actual proof required. If you saw it on your mate’s Facebook page it’s enough.
Farage knows this very well and carries on appealing to people’s prejudices, chucking them red meat about foreigners and the EU, knowing his fans won’t bother to seek out reliable information.
As for BLM, see NI’s point above about why all lives and BLM are important.
Our history is important too, LK. It’s important to know who ‘we’ are, and our mixed heritages, at least (have a look at the ADF track I posted on ‘Today’s Listening’ in non-football, for a slightly bonkers take on this).
It’s also important to learn how those in high places have often turned people against each other, in order to preserve their own privileges and position – poor white on poor black, poor Brit on poor foreign, etc. There’s a long history of it.
Scunthorpe and proud? Why not?
IITB, you were one of a number of posters who say it should be “All Lives Matter”. I’ll explain why it isn’t.
As in a previous post I’ll refer back to the Suffragette Movement of the early 20th C. Their slogan was “Votes for Women”. It was not “Votes for All”.
Two reasons for this. 1. It was highlighting one particular demographic, the one that was suffering injustice. 2. Men already had the vote. It was about raising the rights of one group so that it was on an equal footing with the others.
We have had 300-400 years of “Only White Lives Matter” or to put it another way “Black Lives Don’t Matter”.
Many white people think that everything is now hunky-dory in our modern, enlightened age, but incidents home and abroad prove that it isn’t. That is why we need to show solidarity.
Good, clear explanation NI, after AWG’s attempt at distraction.
AWG, the thing is this. You and many others on here have been lied to so often and for so long, it’s hard to work out where the truth lies, except in your gut. It makes it even harder when people in high places say things that sound true and confirm your prejudices.
It’s reached a point where, if someone asks you why you think something, you can just make up an answer. And it really doesn’t matter what you say, because everyone is lying, and you can use it to convince other people and even yourself, just like a child does.
That’s what you did above, about the Roma, wasn’t it AWG? You heard a rumour about travellers and Cowling and made up the rest to make him look a hypocrite. And as if you cared anyway about French travellers in a Colchester car park!
But, it shows why so many people fall prey to conspiracies these days – they’ve been lied to for so long, and had their gut feelings confirmed by sly bastards in office and online, they think the only reason that actual proof is lacking, is because there’s a conspiracy to keep the truth from them about Brexit, Covid, vaccination, BLM and a host of other issues.
What’s the way forward? Come out and admit you’ve been lied to, had, cheated and bullshitted?
No, you’re too far up the tree – climbing down is too hard. If you’ve told your friends and family you’re a Kipper, a Brexiter and / or anti-BLM, etc. you can’t just turn around and admit you’ve been had. You’d look stupid!
But you could start by questioning things, asking for proper proof and not just believing what you read online, for example when you hear ‘a careful newspaper poll found that 100 million Turks were going to come to the UK – pass it on’ (thanks Les). Follow it up, a bit like you might with football rumours. Ask who, which poll, and in which newspaper, and whether anyone criticized it.
Recognise too, there are political interests out to press your buttons and pull your plonker because they know you like simple explanations to complex problems, explanations about foreigners, blacks, snowflakes, do-gooders, etc. That’s what keeps Farage, Johnson and co. sitting pretty, while the majority struggle to get by. ‘Don’t look up at us, look down and punch down’, they say. So, we have those on the far-right pulling your strings and making you angry, and laughing at the show of prole on prole, elderly white poor against young black poor, poor Brits against poor foreigners…
Oh, and that quotation about simple explanations a few posts above? It was from Jonathan himself, a couple of months back on his Twitterfeed. It seems even he’s now seen the light and is prepared to climb down from the height of stupidity, manufacturing simple explanations to whip up the proles into a frenzy. Strange – I thought it was how they got Brexit done.
It’s a funny old world.
Come on AWG, you say you’re not on social media, but you’re on IB – how does that work?
And where did you get your info about Gypsies, or rather Roma, in Colchester’s car park? You don’t say because you can’t.
And why do you say that because you twice evicted ‘travellers’ from private land, Cowling will too? Do you live next door to each other? It all seems very odd!
Re. Cowling – for the far-right it’s important to counter his statement in support of BLM. Why?
Because Cowling is a wealthy and white member of the football community, a community which among other things, can be homophobic and often racist, which make it a citadel for the far-right.
So, in the culture wars, Cowling is seen as a traitor, because he openly defends BLM. And that can’t be tolerated.Cue the trolls and multiganging jonathans-on-the-web to begin spreading rumours and lies to discredit him, so that within football he’s seen a hypocrite.
It’s the latest example of how political influence works these days. Weird and sick it may seem, it’s nevertheless so.
Travelers is the pc word for gypsies
Not so – the politically correct term for gypsies is Roma. Where is your evidence these were Roma, can you provide a link?
Answer – there is no evidence, because they weren’t.
Back to BLM. The point is that people have been lied to over and over – on social and mass media about all kinds of issues.
You’ve got people like Farage and Trump and their people just telling folk what they want to hear, confirming suspicions and prejudices, rather than telling the truth.
Why?
Because it gives them political support which they can get rich on, while the majority carry on struggling.
You see it with BLM, and it’s the same with Brexit – remember when Jacob Rees Mogg said it could take half a century to see the benefits of leaving the EU? Hah, he was caught telling the truth for once!
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jacob-rees-mogg-economy-brexit_uk_5b54e3b5e4b0de86f48e3566
Well, what if you’re in Sht Street now and can’t wait 50 years? Ditch the EU and wait just to see if he’s right? Who in their right mind would support that?
You deserve better AWG, we all do.
Oh, I could think of people a lot more hostile to oppressed groups, AWG, and so can you.
But in this case you’re wrong, they weren’t gypsies, they were removed by police, and they were on private land.
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/17473904.travellers-asked-leave-colchester-united-football-stadium/Where do you get your information? Social media stories I guess. It’s typical of fictional stories being put about by racist groups.
It’s this lack of empathy, this kind of ‘I don’t care about it/them’, this kind of ‘I’ll turn my back on it’which is typical of the populist politics of the far right.
‘We look after our own’ they say, before voting to deny free school meals to ‘our own’. The sheer hypocrisy of it.
Those who don’t care should care, because one day someone will do them harm or injustice, and nobody will give a monkey’s.
Maybe they already have, and nobody cared, and that’s what’s made them bitter. Ever heard of Scrooge in Dicken’s ‘A Christmas Carol’?
But if you were suffering an injustice and people around the footballing world were taking the knee to draw attention to it, how would you feel?
The Colchester chairman explains it very well.
To many on here don’t say what they think,
I think you’re right AWG.
But, most are not to blame for thinking what they think about the EU, immigration and BLM. The people they were brought up to trust and doff their caps at – magistrates, local politicians, people who are apparently friendly and decent on social media, people who talk posh in pin stripe suits… have repeatedly manipulated and lied to them.
There’s also been a very sophisticated campaign on both social and mass media, to make people believe all kinds of nonsense, nonsense which is damaging to the majority of people in Britain. If the Mail is their only source of info, it’s no wonder some care so much about bendy bananas or scotch eggs, while a vile disease rips almost unchecked through the UK.
Truth is that with the EU, no deal existed which was better than the one we already had, while with ‘the knee’ we see the proles squabbling about it amongst themselves, alleging Marxism and anti-capitalism on the part of BLM.
“We’re creating the perfect conditions for conspiracy theories to breed. When people don’t understand complicated explanations, something superficial, simple – and downright wrong – becomes appealing to many. And there’s no way to fight it.”
Now, can anyone guess who said that?
That’s fine Alfred. But reading and writing about current issues can help you to see how others see things, and sometimes make you think again about a topic, particularly if the view you have isn’t really based on evidence at all.
That may be why some don’t want to comment.
Bill, BRI already addressed the point. But look, why don’t you comment on it? You’re good at the questions but rarely offer your own views. Come on, as a veteran of these columns, what do yout think?
Alcy, the Gilmour case is almost 10 years old. Also, he may have had previous convictions which accounted for his apparently harsh sentencing (tho’ he only served 4 months). We just don’t know, as Heathys says.
Nor does this example illustrate any general trend – as 50p says. If I look out the window and see it’s freezing cold, this does not refute global warming. You have to look at the overall trend in temperatures over time. Or, say my old man smoked all his life and it never did him any harm – this doesn’t mean smoking isn’t bad for you – again you have to look at the evidence and look at the overall trend. Or say SUFC win a match and put in a good performance – it doesn’t mean we are promotion material.
So Alcy, it’s a silly comparison, the sort of thing typically found in racist forums everywhere, which gets repeated and only serves to confuse. I think you know this and it’s unbecoming of you when others express their sympathy for your own misfortune in recent times.
No need, BRI. Some well made points there.
Seems to me if you criticize those who make anti-racist gestures – as with taking the knee – you are defending the status quo.
Although you might argue ‘there are better ways to do this’ and explain why you don’t like it at football, by shouting your disapproval you’re criticizing those who take a stand against racism, and for that, people will call you racist.
Course, hardly anyone admits to being a racist, and accusations often end with infantile comments about why making racist remarks isn’t really racist at all, often done with a barely concealed smirk – a racist hallmark.
But look, instead of squabbling amongst ourselves it’s time we recognized there are huge injustices and inequalities in society which urgently need addressing, whether racial, gender, social or environmental, and instead of criticizing those who try to make life fairer for those at the bottom, we should direct our anger towards those at the top.
There are so many on here who championed UKIP, a party which was allegedly pro-grass roots and anti-elites, yet as soon as we have a grass-roots movement trying to improve life for those at the bottom they turn away and pour scorn on it!
Come on U-kippers, tell us what should the black players do? Carry on taking the racist abuse and marginalization on and off the field in the name of “old-fashioned good manners”?
Joining arms is a general act of solidarity.
Taking the knee recognizes there’s a specific problem. They are different.
Denigrating it by calling it ‘highly politicized’ and turning round as if to ignore it, just gives succor to the racists – it’s one reason why this problem won’t go away.
Really, what are you and yours all scared of, Les?He should pay all his taxes in GB, he has the union jack help aloft often enough, and like you say he been very vocal, as have all of us, but he is in that privalged position and could have used it more by taking a stand and do some action.
You’re talking about El Presidente, right? And he took ermine, never mind a mere gong.
Or France 12-0 Kazakhstan Women. The visions conjured up of Borat’s elderly female relatives gambolling around the football field….
Nearly as funny as the current ad. for the Iron Survival Pack! Will it help prevent relegation this winter?
Surely a spoof?
Yes, it’s well known and they’re trying to keep it quiet.
In one well known vaccine trial, 94% of volunteers began obsessively shopping online for guides to the correct placement of table cutlery, CDs such as ‘Songs from the Shows’, and the book ‘Debretts guide to Royal Protocol’ (includes such items as whether a Marchioness should sit opposite or next to a Baronet at dinner, for example). Volunteers’ voices also rose by several semitones, and expressed an interest in magazines with titles such as “Dreamboys” and “Lesbians on the Loose” (the girls, obvs).
So yes, this is all true. Pass it on to at least ten people.
PS – Les and the Jonnies, am I doing this right? Is this how you spread rumours?
Aye, and I heard it on the radio. So, it’s obviously true. Pass it on – repost to others now!
Only just came across this, and quite unexpected really.
Seriously Alcy, I thought you were more sensible and less prone to idiotic online conspiracies.
It seems to me all these points are addressed periodically by the top profs in all the media coverage. But you hear much less about the government’s epic ineptitude in all this. Where are the prosecutions, resignations and apologies for the worst management in Europe? That’s where you should be suspicious.
BTW, there’s another theory you missed out – that the vaccine makes you gay.
Ha!
If this thread can’t be kept humorous(or attempted) will the mod remove to non football please..In case it still isn’t clear, this gesture by Johnson/Sunak means the government is expecting more criminality in future.
In other words, the government is admitting that we’re all going to be less safe – our houses, cars, families and kids… any one of us is now more likely to be the victim of a crime which attracts a prison sentence.
That is the reality of this government, Bill. You’ve given them your unquestioning support for too long, and now look where it’s got us.
The Chancellor has just announced a big increase for the police force and £4 BILLION to be spent on increasing prison “places” by 80,000 !
We’re in safe hands with this Conservative government.But we aren’t. Think about it Bill, 80,000 more prison places means we are going to have 80,000 more crims! That means the government is predicting we’re all going to be much less safe in future.
The government should be addressing the causes, not the consequences of criminality, and aiming to get the prison population down, not up.
Well, MelK, the elderly can and do isolate if worried. I have neighbours who hardly go out because of this. But some have to go out and mix publicly, because for example, they don’t have the support of others, or they don’t have cars and depend on public transport for shopping, doctors’ appointments etc etc.
As for “looking at the stats” you need to do more than just look at them, you have to dig down and analyse them, and it’s not a pretty picture for anyone. Try actually talking to those in the NHS too, see what they say about working in the front line, the underfunding, and the lack of PPE, the queues for treatment for other illnesses and the personal risk to themselves, not just from Covid, but overwork and mental stress. See for example the setting up of ‘recovery rooms’, not for post-operative patients, but for staff on the verge of cracking up.
And you say they should just ‘give up’!! Where’s the British bulldog spirit that won us two world wars (and one world cup)??
As for the average death being 77, you imply they elderly don’t matter because they hadn’t long left. Well, just wait until you’re 77, Mel! Or until it affects one of your elderly relatives! Sacrifice the elderly to protect Pret a Manger? I don’t think it’s a runner. You have to put health before wealth.
In any case, 77 is an average, and that’s only for deaths. Covid affects people of all ages, and as stated above, hospital care is resource hungry – it’s labour intensive, it blocks beds and treatment for those with other conditions, and it costs a lot of money.
Yes, lockdown measures have a price too. A lot of people will suffer from effectively being put under house arrest, as well as losing their jobs. This government could do more about that, as they have in Germany. With a minimum of 60% of pay, and furlough for 24 months, it’s protecting jobs and skills. It’s a government you can trust, unlike here.
Same in Sweden, where trust in government means people follow rules and regs. and take sensible precautions. They also have many people living in single occupancy households, unlike here. But there are a lot of myths about what’s going on there. See below, about why it’s not a good comparison, as well as BRI’s post above.
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3765
These countries do better than us because they trust those in charge to behave competently and look after their people. In return they behave themselves and follow the guidelines. Here, it seems people increasingly don’t believe what they’re told, because the government has cried ‘wolf’ far too often.
MelK, you could argue that the older you are the more you should be isolating, but do you really think it’s acceptable to tell the over 70s they shouldn’t go out at all if they aren’t ill and if there’s no lockdown in place?
Even if the government did say this, they probably wouldn’t accept it.
The issue with younger people is that although they might not get very ill they often pick up the disease and transmit it, for example in bars, restaurants, workplaces, on public transport, or at home when friends come to visit, or at college etc. It’s no surprise that people going back to work, school and college, as well as eating out ‘to help out’, led to a sharp increase in infection rates.
And even tho’ younger people are less likely to die when they get Covid, they can still end up in hospital and block the beds of others who need treatment for other conditions like cancer.
That’s why another national lockdown seems likely – it’s the only thing which is likely to bring down the escalating infection rate.
Oh, and as for man having caught diseases for thousands of years… thousands of years ago most people were dead by their mid 30s!
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/07/the-paleo-diet-caveman-cure-all-or-unhealthy-fad/242621/It depends how old you are.
https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid
But even if you don’t die you’ll still pass it on to a lot of other people, who’ll pass it on to even more, and some of them might die, and assuming you’re in your twenties you might be the 1/100 who dies too.
And even if you don’t die you might end up in intensive care for weeks, just like some of those to whom you passed the disease. And time in an ICU takes ages to recover from, and it’s expensive too.
Well, half time and same old story.
We’ve had an exorcism, now we need a miracle.A quick suggestion Matt.
In future podcasts could you and the guys throw a few of jokes into the mix? Or maybe use a couple of sound effects, like a clown horn or swannee whistle?
The last ones I’ve listened to have left me very depressed.
Aye to that – after all, football’s not a matter of life and death…
Their goals will likely outnumber our shot count.
You pay big bucks to young lads who are spoon fed via academies from an early age, and think the word GRAFT is some skin taken from your backside and placed elsewhere on the body. You can’t even give them a rollicking because because mummy or daddy in the family 4 x 4 never did.
Only kids from council estates had parents who taught them the harsh realities of real life.Naah, look, who in last weekend’s line-up do you think was born with a silver spoon?
True, spoilt kids can be lazy, but so can kids from less privileged backgrounds.
If young lads like these look like they aren’t bothered, it’s usually down to the manager. It’s his job to motivate the players and build team spirit, and if it’s not there you have to look at Cox and ultimately at the chairman. -
AuthorPosts
