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Well yes, he agrees, but I think he’s saying it won’t happen until summer, and why.
It’s probably true that it’s the worst Iron side, certainly in memory, if not in history, but we should be careful what we wish for in terms of ownership. As has been said elsewhere, who would buy the club, currently?
How does that old joke go? WHat’s the quickest way to become a millionaire? Start with a billion and buy a football club. It’s never been truer.
A comprehensive analysis, IA. A lot of fans have felt driven away, that’s for sure. How is it possible to keep supporting, week in week out, when players come and go, managers come and go, those who do play don’t seem bothered, performances nose-dive and the club seems not just to lose matches, but also a sense of its own identity.
My lad and I have had more than a few wobbles. There’s a sense that we haven’t left the club, it’s more like the club has left us.Indeed, that’s been my experience too, MK.
We now have an intervention from Wesley Finesword QC – a BAME barrister, Muslim, and one of Pepperills finest – as he takes the floor to address the court.
Ladies and gentlemen, here we are, on the precipice of the worst economic crisis in history, with 500 deaths per day, millions suffering through unemployment and debt, businesses closing forever, rising insecurity, poverty and concomitant illness, as Justles comes on IB in support of one of the vilest politicians and political parties ever to attempt entry into Westminster.
And, that may be all well and good in a social forum, as are your usual pre-occupations with nation, race and religion.
But, what is at issue, is that you solicited Bru-ers trust. You impressed upon the laymen of this locality your former positions as a magistrate and teacher, in order to emphasise your credibility.
Yet, is it not the truth that you set out to groom readers for personal gain? Long ago you failed to mention you had abandoned ideas about education, enlightenment and the church, in favour of the ignorance and hate spread by UKIP and the far-right, as the family jumped into bed with Nigel.
And there’s more. Time after time, we bore witness to some of the most crackpot propaganda ever seen on the Bru, which actually enjoined readers to ‘pass it on to everyone’. Evidence the following:
#63085
June 20, 2016 8.25 pm“Please, please take ten minutes of your time to read this – and then send to everyone on your email list, and place it on Facebook – requesting others to do the same. I spent a very long time researching all of this! Lesgeo.”
Support Brexit because….
“Attempts to claim major job losses are baseless.”
“Firms leaving the UK after Brexit – evidence not given”
“WTO rules prevent them from isolating us”
“The EU is not called the Evil Empire for nothing”
“Europol’s powers are unlimited… greater than those of the Gestapo.”Coming from a former magistrate and teacher, it must be true – is that not the case, ladies and gentlemen?
Alas it couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s just another self-published work of sub-standard fiction, perhaps even ghost-written by Jonnie.
Meanwhile, millions of women, men and their families, like those on Bru, were trying to do the right thing – working hard and bringing up their kids up to tell the truth, even tho’ they see many powerful individuals lying and getting away with it, time and time again. We put our kids through university hoping they get a decent job, only to find they’re saddled with thousands of pounds of debt, can’t afford the basics like a house or pension, while being condemned to a life of insecurity in the gig economy, one now blighted by the catastrophic consequences of Brexit. And if they are foreign of accent, face or race, the disadvantage is multiplied, due in no small part to the rise of the far right and the public face of Farage and his party acolytes.
Ladies and gentlemen, as the world struggles to unite against the common problems of racism, disease, economic and environmental collapse, UKIP will go down in history as one of the nastiest and most incompetent parties ever to flirt with power. Is there any wonder Jonathan dare not speak its name in his Twitter profile? These days he’s beyond ashamed, and rightly so.
So, to sum up, you and yours might not suffer greatly in this recession, but if you have it within your soul, just spare a thought for those who actually will. God, there are some confessions need making. Y recuerde – A cada cerdo le llega su San Martín.
LK if you look above you can see a link in my post to an article about who the net contributors are. It’s not as clear-cut as you suggest. It costs each of us about £100 a year. Now who knew that?
And how many more times does it need saying that Brexiters really should get hold of the facts? In this case, the current mess of Brexit will wake people up in other EU countries to the ridiculous fantasies of their far-right factions.
Moreover, there are many countries who want to join the EU but can’t, because they don’t meet the convergence criteria.
BI – you still haven’t mentioned any benefits. Come on, fill your boots, we’re out now, and where are they? Come on, give us just one.
The point is that all this was totally unnecessary. Why? Because no deal is possible which was better than the deal we already had.
The masses knew what they were voting for!! I don’t think so. They voted leave to stop immigration with no thought (or knowledge) of other possible consequences. Still to meet a leave voter who doesn’t give that as their prime reason.
Too true Cass. There’s no doubt a huge majority did vote to stop people coming over here to mend things, clean things, and to work in our NHS and care homes to look after our families & friends in return for a pittance. As a basically powerless group with few friends in the media or politics they were an easy target, and presented as ‘the problem’, rather than the reality of failed Tory economics and austerity.
BPG – you’ve clearly forgotten that most of the foreign-owned sections of the mass media – the Telegraph, Times, Sun as well as the Mail and Express – were all pro-leave, as are Fox and Sky news. That’s about ¾ of the readership, maybe more, plus television. There was also a likely criminal campaign by Farage, and a very sly one conducted through social media, whereby lies from apparently reliable sources were were freely spread around. All this benefitted those who would not only not suffer, but would profit from selling their media to a gullible public, as well as those who could actually make money from a Britain in decline, like Rees-Mogg.
Here on Bru, you had Les and co. feeding their propaganda to those who knew no better, and now millions will suffer the consequences. I don’t blame those who were taken in. But, I do blame those who lied with the full knowledge of what they were doing.
Justles – instead of shamefully stealing around this board in a disguise as convincing as Grayson Perry’s ‘Claire’, come clean and recognize the only ‘deep-seated fundamental rift’ is between the reality and the rhetoric, and what this means for millions of people. It’s not smart to pose as ‘what-me-worry?’ and pontificate as if mid-fiddle, while Rome burns. It may not matter to you, but teachers are meant to educate – you and Jonathan should never be let near a classroom again.
BI –The usual empty bluster. Tell us what the benefits are, and why they are worth the even greater catastrophic damage about to be visited upon the UK economy. Whatever happened to ‘cake and eat it’, ‘sunny uplands’, ‘easiest deal in history’??
Gurn’s point about “EU players” should have read “Players within the EU”. Good to know somebody’s still reading this column after all the compliments flying around. But whatever happens re. Bosman, it’ll be totally irrelevant to the daily lives of 99.9% of Scunthorpians.
More relevant will be that, under the Tories, Brexit is likely to lead to more shortages, exploitation, unemployment, crumbling public services, longer waiting times for hospitals and GPs, more boarded-up shops, more failing businesses, and even more people leaving the area.
As usual, it will be ‘ordinary people’ who bear the brunt, as they get sicker, weaker and poorer, particularly in towns like Scunny.
Yet, the whole Brexit exercise has been based on soundbites, fantasies and downright lies. It’s been like an illegal advertising campaign for a non-existent product, which has left the ‘leavers’ in love with an idea or fantasy, rather than anything tangible which would improve their daily lives.
That’s why, when Brexiters are asked for their reasons, most say exactly what AWG and others have said on here, with ‘arguments’ which aren’t supported by the facts at all. That’s because it’s hard to deny the power of the charlatan who has gained your trust / confidence. Once he has gained that, he has control over you for many years, since to break free is to admit you’ve been had. It’s like with strong religion.
True, the argument for ‘remain’ wasn’t made effectively. It’s always harder to defend the status quo. You could tell everyone about the advantages of membership, but if others can show that the UK pays in more than it gets back, even just £100, and circulate a lie about an immigrant accordion player getting benefits to repair to his bellows, it makes for shocking headlines in the populist sections of the media, the twitter trolls are mobilized to punch down even harder on their keyboards, while the Greek chorus on here pipes up with renewed vigour.
So, in the end, we should blame the liars for their deceit and cunning, not the lied to. Show some compassion for the conned, and all that. It’s Xmas after all.
‘Our’ money which the EU gives us back? It’s pretty good value really.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48256318
What are you planning to do with the £100 you’ll save AWG? A new car maybe?
You think British unions are somehow better than those abroad? Where did you read that? Evidence???
Since the 1980s there’s been a steady decline in unions power here, with the loss of big industries and their unions – iron, coal, steel, shipbuilding and so on, and a hostile government. Now, most workers are employed in service industries where the unions are much less powerful. But, the decline hasn’t been so marked in other EU countries, where many unions remain strong and influential at protecting workers’ rights, e.g. France.
Vote ‘em out if you’re not happy? This is a silly line which is often used as an argument for Brexit but has no foundation in reality. Look, if you don’t want to work 50 hours per week for 40 hours pay, or you’ve been unfairly dismissed because you refuse to work on Christmas Day, you might not be able to wait for an election.
Johnson knows the UK is about to become a basket case economy, and wants to retain the right to let employers do whatever they like to be able to compete with EU countries. That would likely include the ‘right’ to pay workers even less than now, as well as make it easier to sack people.
As for Bosman, the ability or lack of it for EU players to transfer to and from SUFC is pretty irrelevant compared to the likely consequences for other sectors of the country, economy and society. It’s like saying, “Well you might be dying of cancer, but at least that spot on your nose will heal up.”
No, they aren’t idiots LK, but people have been lied to over and over by those in power, many sections of the mass media, and a very clever campaign on social media, including on here.
The lying has been so bad that in the end folk just don’t trust the government. And, that’s when rumours start and spread, as you’ve seen on IB – “millions of Turks are coming – pass it on!” and elsewhere.
And of course, if you can’t get the proof of your suspicion, it’s because THEY are keeping it from you, there’s a conspiracy! So people just end up believing anything, no actual proof required. If you saw it on your mate’s Facebook page it’s enough.
Farage knows this very well and carries on appealing to people’s prejudices, chucking them red meat about foreigners and the EU, knowing his fans won’t bother to seek out reliable information.
As for BLM, see NI’s point above about why all lives and BLM are important.
Our history is important too, LK. It’s important to know who ‘we’ are, and our mixed heritages, at least (have a look at the ADF track I posted on ‘Today’s Listening’ in non-football, for a slightly bonkers take on this).
It’s also important to learn how those in high places have often turned people against each other, in order to preserve their own privileges and position – poor white on poor black, poor Brit on poor foreign, etc. There’s a long history of it.
Scunthorpe and proud? Why not?
IITB, you were one of a number of posters who say it should be “All Lives Matter”. I’ll explain why it isn’t.
As in a previous post I’ll refer back to the Suffragette Movement of the early 20th C. Their slogan was “Votes for Women”. It was not “Votes for All”.
Two reasons for this. 1. It was highlighting one particular demographic, the one that was suffering injustice. 2. Men already had the vote. It was about raising the rights of one group so that it was on an equal footing with the others.
We have had 300-400 years of “Only White Lives Matter” or to put it another way “Black Lives Don’t Matter”.
Many white people think that everything is now hunky-dory in our modern, enlightened age, but incidents home and abroad prove that it isn’t. That is why we need to show solidarity.
Good, clear explanation NI, after AWG’s attempt at distraction.
AWG, the thing is this. You and many others on here have been lied to so often and for so long, it’s hard to work out where the truth lies, except in your gut. It makes it even harder when people in high places say things that sound true and confirm your prejudices.
It’s reached a point where, if someone asks you why you think something, you can just make up an answer. And it really doesn’t matter what you say, because everyone is lying, and you can use it to convince other people and even yourself, just like a child does.
That’s what you did above, about the Roma, wasn’t it AWG? You heard a rumour about travellers and Cowling and made up the rest to make him look a hypocrite. And as if you cared anyway about French travellers in a Colchester car park!
But, it shows why so many people fall prey to conspiracies these days – they’ve been lied to for so long, and had their gut feelings confirmed by sly bastards in office and online, they think the only reason that actual proof is lacking, is because there’s a conspiracy to keep the truth from them about Brexit, Covid, vaccination, BLM and a host of other issues.
What’s the way forward? Come out and admit you’ve been lied to, had, cheated and bullshitted?
No, you’re too far up the tree – climbing down is too hard. If you’ve told your friends and family you’re a Kipper, a Brexiter and / or anti-BLM, etc. you can’t just turn around and admit you’ve been had. You’d look stupid!
But you could start by questioning things, asking for proper proof and not just believing what you read online, for example when you hear ‘a careful newspaper poll found that 100 million Turks were going to come to the UK – pass it on’ (thanks Les). Follow it up, a bit like you might with football rumours. Ask who, which poll, and in which newspaper, and whether anyone criticized it.
Recognise too, there are political interests out to press your buttons and pull your plonker because they know you like simple explanations to complex problems, explanations about foreigners, blacks, snowflakes, do-gooders, etc. That’s what keeps Farage, Johnson and co. sitting pretty, while the majority struggle to get by. ‘Don’t look up at us, look down and punch down’, they say. So, we have those on the far-right pulling your strings and making you angry, and laughing at the show of prole on prole, elderly white poor against young black poor, poor Brits against poor foreigners…
Oh, and that quotation about simple explanations a few posts above? It was from Jonathan himself, a couple of months back on his Twitterfeed. It seems even he’s now seen the light and is prepared to climb down from the height of stupidity, manufacturing simple explanations to whip up the proles into a frenzy. Strange – I thought it was how they got Brexit done.
It’s a funny old world.
Come on AWG, you say you’re not on social media, but you’re on IB – how does that work?
And where did you get your info about Gypsies, or rather Roma, in Colchester’s car park? You don’t say because you can’t.
And why do you say that because you twice evicted ‘travellers’ from private land, Cowling will too? Do you live next door to each other? It all seems very odd!
Re. Cowling – for the far-right it’s important to counter his statement in support of BLM. Why?
Because Cowling is a wealthy and white member of the football community, a community which among other things, can be homophobic and often racist, which make it a citadel for the far-right.
So, in the culture wars, Cowling is seen as a traitor, because he openly defends BLM. And that can’t be tolerated.Cue the trolls and multiganging jonathans-on-the-web to begin spreading rumours and lies to discredit him, so that within football he’s seen a hypocrite.
It’s the latest example of how political influence works these days. Weird and sick it may seem, it’s nevertheless so.
Travelers is the pc word for gypsies
Not so – the politically correct term for gypsies is Roma. Where is your evidence these were Roma, can you provide a link?
Answer – there is no evidence, because they weren’t.
Back to BLM. The point is that people have been lied to over and over – on social and mass media about all kinds of issues.
You’ve got people like Farage and Trump and their people just telling folk what they want to hear, confirming suspicions and prejudices, rather than telling the truth.
Why?
Because it gives them political support which they can get rich on, while the majority carry on struggling.
You see it with BLM, and it’s the same with Brexit – remember when Jacob Rees Mogg said it could take half a century to see the benefits of leaving the EU? Hah, he was caught telling the truth for once!
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jacob-rees-mogg-economy-brexit_uk_5b54e3b5e4b0de86f48e3566
Well, what if you’re in Sht Street now and can’t wait 50 years? Ditch the EU and wait just to see if he’s right? Who in their right mind would support that?
You deserve better AWG, we all do.
Oh, I could think of people a lot more hostile to oppressed groups, AWG, and so can you.
But in this case you’re wrong, they weren’t gypsies, they were removed by police, and they were on private land.
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/17473904.travellers-asked-leave-colchester-united-football-stadium/Where do you get your information? Social media stories I guess. It’s typical of fictional stories being put about by racist groups.
It’s this lack of empathy, this kind of ‘I don’t care about it/them’, this kind of ‘I’ll turn my back on it’which is typical of the populist politics of the far right.
‘We look after our own’ they say, before voting to deny free school meals to ‘our own’. The sheer hypocrisy of it.
Those who don’t care should care, because one day someone will do them harm or injustice, and nobody will give a monkey’s.
Maybe they already have, and nobody cared, and that’s what’s made them bitter. Ever heard of Scrooge in Dicken’s ‘A Christmas Carol’?
But if you were suffering an injustice and people around the footballing world were taking the knee to draw attention to it, how would you feel?
The Colchester chairman explains it very well.
To many on here don’t say what they think,
I think you’re right AWG.
But, most are not to blame for thinking what they think about the EU, immigration and BLM. The people they were brought up to trust and doff their caps at – magistrates, local politicians, people who are apparently friendly and decent on social media, people who talk posh in pin stripe suits… have repeatedly manipulated and lied to them.
There’s also been a very sophisticated campaign on both social and mass media, to make people believe all kinds of nonsense, nonsense which is damaging to the majority of people in Britain. If the Mail is their only source of info, it’s no wonder some care so much about bendy bananas or scotch eggs, while a vile disease rips almost unchecked through the UK.
Truth is that with the EU, no deal existed which was better than the one we already had, while with ‘the knee’ we see the proles squabbling about it amongst themselves, alleging Marxism and anti-capitalism on the part of BLM.
“We’re creating the perfect conditions for conspiracy theories to breed. When people don’t understand complicated explanations, something superficial, simple – and downright wrong – becomes appealing to many. And there’s no way to fight it.”
Now, can anyone guess who said that?
That’s fine Alfred. But reading and writing about current issues can help you to see how others see things, and sometimes make you think again about a topic, particularly if the view you have isn’t really based on evidence at all.
That may be why some don’t want to comment.
Bill, BRI already addressed the point. But look, why don’t you comment on it? You’re good at the questions but rarely offer your own views. Come on, as a veteran of these columns, what do yout think?
Alcy, the Gilmour case is almost 10 years old. Also, he may have had previous convictions which accounted for his apparently harsh sentencing (tho’ he only served 4 months). We just don’t know, as Heathys says.
Nor does this example illustrate any general trend – as 50p says. If I look out the window and see it’s freezing cold, this does not refute global warming. You have to look at the overall trend in temperatures over time. Or, say my old man smoked all his life and it never did him any harm – this doesn’t mean smoking isn’t bad for you – again you have to look at the evidence and look at the overall trend. Or say SUFC win a match and put in a good performance – it doesn’t mean we are promotion material.
So Alcy, it’s a silly comparison, the sort of thing typically found in racist forums everywhere, which gets repeated and only serves to confuse. I think you know this and it’s unbecoming of you when others express their sympathy for your own misfortune in recent times.
No need, BRI. Some well made points there.
Seems to me if you criticize those who make anti-racist gestures – as with taking the knee – you are defending the status quo.
Although you might argue ‘there are better ways to do this’ and explain why you don’t like it at football, by shouting your disapproval you’re criticizing those who take a stand against racism, and for that, people will call you racist.
Course, hardly anyone admits to being a racist, and accusations often end with infantile comments about why making racist remarks isn’t really racist at all, often done with a barely concealed smirk – a racist hallmark.
But look, instead of squabbling amongst ourselves it’s time we recognized there are huge injustices and inequalities in society which urgently need addressing, whether racial, gender, social or environmental, and instead of criticizing those who try to make life fairer for those at the bottom, we should direct our anger towards those at the top.
There are so many on here who championed UKIP, a party which was allegedly pro-grass roots and anti-elites, yet as soon as we have a grass-roots movement trying to improve life for those at the bottom they turn away and pour scorn on it!
Come on U-kippers, tell us what should the black players do? Carry on taking the racist abuse and marginalization on and off the field in the name of “old-fashioned good manners”?
Joining arms is a general act of solidarity.
Taking the knee recognizes there’s a specific problem. They are different.
Denigrating it by calling it ‘highly politicized’ and turning round as if to ignore it, just gives succor to the racists – it’s one reason why this problem won’t go away.
Really, what are you and yours all scared of, Les?He should pay all his taxes in GB, he has the union jack help aloft often enough, and like you say he been very vocal, as have all of us, but he is in that privalged position and could have used it more by taking a stand and do some action.
You’re talking about El Presidente, right? And he took ermine, never mind a mere gong.
Or France 12-0 Kazakhstan Women. The visions conjured up of Borat’s elderly female relatives gambolling around the football field….
Nearly as funny as the current ad. for the Iron Survival Pack! Will it help prevent relegation this winter?
Surely a spoof?
Yes, it’s well known and they’re trying to keep it quiet.
In one well known vaccine trial, 94% of volunteers began obsessively shopping online for guides to the correct placement of table cutlery, CDs such as ‘Songs from the Shows’, and the book ‘Debretts guide to Royal Protocol’ (includes such items as whether a Marchioness should sit opposite or next to a Baronet at dinner, for example). Volunteers’ voices also rose by several semitones, and expressed an interest in magazines with titles such as “Dreamboys” and “Lesbians on the Loose” (the girls, obvs).
So yes, this is all true. Pass it on to at least ten people.
PS – Les and the Jonnies, am I doing this right? Is this how you spread rumours?
Aye, and I heard it on the radio. So, it’s obviously true. Pass it on – repost to others now!
Only just came across this, and quite unexpected really.
Seriously Alcy, I thought you were more sensible and less prone to idiotic online conspiracies.
It seems to me all these points are addressed periodically by the top profs in all the media coverage. But you hear much less about the government’s epic ineptitude in all this. Where are the prosecutions, resignations and apologies for the worst management in Europe? That’s where you should be suspicious.
BTW, there’s another theory you missed out – that the vaccine makes you gay.
Ha!
If this thread can’t be kept humorous(or attempted) will the mod remove to non football please..In case it still isn’t clear, this gesture by Johnson/Sunak means the government is expecting more criminality in future.
In other words, the government is admitting that we’re all going to be less safe – our houses, cars, families and kids… any one of us is now more likely to be the victim of a crime which attracts a prison sentence.
That is the reality of this government, Bill. You’ve given them your unquestioning support for too long, and now look where it’s got us.
The Chancellor has just announced a big increase for the police force and £4 BILLION to be spent on increasing prison “places” by 80,000 !
We’re in safe hands with this Conservative government.But we aren’t. Think about it Bill, 80,000 more prison places means we are going to have 80,000 more crims! That means the government is predicting we’re all going to be much less safe in future.
The government should be addressing the causes, not the consequences of criminality, and aiming to get the prison population down, not up.
Well, MelK, the elderly can and do isolate if worried. I have neighbours who hardly go out because of this. But some have to go out and mix publicly, because for example, they don’t have the support of others, or they don’t have cars and depend on public transport for shopping, doctors’ appointments etc etc.
As for “looking at the stats” you need to do more than just look at them, you have to dig down and analyse them, and it’s not a pretty picture for anyone. Try actually talking to those in the NHS too, see what they say about working in the front line, the underfunding, and the lack of PPE, the queues for treatment for other illnesses and the personal risk to themselves, not just from Covid, but overwork and mental stress. See for example the setting up of ‘recovery rooms’, not for post-operative patients, but for staff on the verge of cracking up.
And you say they should just ‘give up’!! Where’s the British bulldog spirit that won us two world wars (and one world cup)??
As for the average death being 77, you imply they elderly don’t matter because they hadn’t long left. Well, just wait until you’re 77, Mel! Or until it affects one of your elderly relatives! Sacrifice the elderly to protect Pret a Manger? I don’t think it’s a runner. You have to put health before wealth.
In any case, 77 is an average, and that’s only for deaths. Covid affects people of all ages, and as stated above, hospital care is resource hungry – it’s labour intensive, it blocks beds and treatment for those with other conditions, and it costs a lot of money.
Yes, lockdown measures have a price too. A lot of people will suffer from effectively being put under house arrest, as well as losing their jobs. This government could do more about that, as they have in Germany. With a minimum of 60% of pay, and furlough for 24 months, it’s protecting jobs and skills. It’s a government you can trust, unlike here.
Same in Sweden, where trust in government means people follow rules and regs. and take sensible precautions. They also have many people living in single occupancy households, unlike here. But there are a lot of myths about what’s going on there. See below, about why it’s not a good comparison, as well as BRI’s post above.
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3765
These countries do better than us because they trust those in charge to behave competently and look after their people. In return they behave themselves and follow the guidelines. Here, it seems people increasingly don’t believe what they’re told, because the government has cried ‘wolf’ far too often.
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