[Gurnelista]

Kerr was rather extravagant with such a prediction, although last time I looked, Hull, Bristol C, Imps and Gills are competing in far higher leagues and to bigger gates than SUFC. It’s stating the obvious too, that as professional teams in the EFL, all are considerably closer to R. Madrid than a ‘pub team’, which you’d struggle to find anywhere in the seven layers of leagues beneath League 2.
Indeed, it’s precisely this kind of unambitious coaching and myopic transfer ‘policy’ which has contributed to the club’s demise.

[Gurnelista]

Wasn’t it Gary Neville on Man U, NI?

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

[Gurnelista]

I hope so DM.
There was a tv doc some time back discussing the merits of ‘yacht rock’ – it’s a pub debate whether SD qualify, some of their stuff certainly brushes shoulders with it. But the optimistic, smooth, free, easy ‘yacht’ sound seems almost the polar opposite of the mood of the times now. Unlike the Ben Watt, or Sleaford Mods with this disturbing stuff, I guess….

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

[Gurnelista]

Aye, Steely Dan – I know what you mean NI, about ‘guessing the rest’ – I once had the Royal Scam as the soundtrack to a similar encounter, many years from now. It’s the fusion of melancholy and romance which does it for many, along with the musicianship and imagery in the songwriting which is the crux of their appeal I think.
That said, I sense there’s not so much demand for this style at present, sadly. Maybe too ‘white’ and maybe a bit too free and easy for the troubled times in which we live.
What is the music of now? I don’t know, which is probably why I’ve started revisiting classics like this…

[Gurnelista]

IA, what we see among the so-called Christians on here, and elsewhere on social media, is an utter denial of observable reality; complete, blind subservience to belief and belief alone. I hear it from the Jehovah’s Witnesses on the doorstep. I hear it too, from fans of Farage and Trump. The followers aren’t interested in facts, evidence and argument. No, for them it’s about belief in an omnipotent authority figure, a cult leader, or an idea, no matter how stupid, bad or mad.

For the likes of BPG and JI, rational, evidence based argument is not the currency of debate. Instead, you get ‘whataboutery’, i.e. attempts to shift the discussion onto another topic, as we see in posts above. Classic cultist behaviour.

Take the current discussions about the importance of standards, integrity, honesty, probity decency and fairness in politics. It means going against pretty much everything the Tory right wing (and many Republicans) currently stand for. This means that no matter how egregious the abuse of power, no matter how serious the corruption, the cultists will still believe, because they see their leaders as infallible. Just like the Pope is for many Catholics, in fact.

Of course, there are many ‘normal’ Republicans, Tories and Catholics, who dislike their leaders and their policies as much as the rest of us. But they don’t take to social media with the burning sense of injustice which we see from the cultists, who defend them unquestioningly. To admit they might be wrong brings their whole psychological edifice crashing down.

Really, what anyone rational wants to see is a defence of decent political standards for all our sakes, whatever the political colours. But we should not expect the cultists to express an objective or reasonable viewpoint – because they can’t. They are destined to continue soiling themselves on social media as long as they can work a mouse.

[Gurnelista]

That’s true IA. And most of it is used by the political right as a distraction from talking about other, far more important issues such as growing inequality, climate change, the unsustainable consumption of resources, Me2, BLM, transgender rights, the national past, and injustices experienced by minorities of all kinds.

It’s obvious that the free market is broken and failing to deliver, so it has to lie (hence Trump, Johnson Farage and co) and / or talk about something else as a distraction.

Something else, like what? Like Brexit, daft conspiracy theories put about by Alex Jones and others, or abortion issues, or a ‘war on woke’.

See how these issues often get a moral dimension attached to them, which makes it hard for the hard of thinking to disagree, e.g. the EU is said to be ‘undemocratic’ which is morally wrong (and ignores the undemocratic voting system here, or the unelected House of Lords, lifetime peerages, the Lords spiritual, etc. etc. We also see that immigrants are often labelled illegal, and so they become morally wrong. We hear that abortion rights are morally wrong. And if you disagree with how your national past is represented, you’re unpatriotic, which is close to being morally wrong, too…

Of course it’s just nonsense, a distraction from the sick state of the economy and environment. But if you’re white, elderly, reasonably well off and feel served by the current arrangements, you’re less likely to see it that way. And if you’ve had a lifetime steeped in religion, and let a book like the Tora, Koran or Bible etc. do your thinking for you, you almost certainly won’t. You don’t want to talk about diversity and equality and change. They’re seen as threatening. Even worse, religion will be interpreted as giving support to monsters like Farage and Trump, support which is thicker than a whale omelette.

And that concludes today’s Ted Talk.

[Gurnelista]

Been getting into jazz of the late 50s recently, like this. Seems to suit summer breezes.

[Gurnelista]

OK, so JI is unable to address the points made earlier. Yet, despite all this, s/he needs 30 years to decide whether Brexit really is the promised land which was promised!

The fraud perpetuated in the run-up is plain. Only the short-sighted and shamed still refuse to publicly accept it, which is what happens when facts contradict strong beliefs. Fingers in ears, eyes tight shut. La-la-la…

Ideology in Gurn’s house? Nah, fairness is what matters. The political ideologues are the ones authoring a few dusty tomes on the bookshelves. But nearby and on here, there are types who, having taken one step up the ladder of economic success, share a lot of the characteristics of those who have ‘just made it’; an intolerance of those who haven’t, perhaps a suspicion of those further up the ladder with more experience, knowledge, education, expertise…, plus bigoted attitudes and an overly-simplistic view of social and economic problems. Is that ideology? I don’t know, but such are (or were) the many of the red wall.

Religion and ideology? Darwin rules. I like the Atlee quote about believing the ethic but not the mumbo-jumbo. The few so-called Christians on here seem to have got it the opposite way round and give it a bad name. Presumably they reject Darwin too, along with dinosaurs and dna, believing the whole of evolution is just a conspiracy theory.

Conspiracy theories? Three conspiracy theorists walk into a bar. You can’t tell me that’s just a coincidence…

[Gurnelista]

Once again, for the wilfully myopic unjustiron… I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.

Rewind to 2014 and the run up to the election. The political right decided something had to be done to assuage public anger over austerity. The government and their cheerleaders in the Telegraph, Mail, Express and Sun couldn’t accuse the party they had helped elect of political failure, and blaming Labour was a non-runner – it was too long ago. So instead, they chose something else, something which had been around for ages, but nobody had been really bothered about – the EU – allied with that familiar old canard, immigrants.

Previously, UKIP had been a very minor party of eccentrics and navel-gazers on the outermost fringes of British politics. But suddenly it was dragged into the mainstream. Things were bad because of Brussels and Jonnie Foreigner was the message. There was also Nigel Farage, who, to elderly middle-England seemed respectable, plausible and patriotic. And suddenly it also began to attract huge swathes of hooligans and loonies who were prepared to believe anything he said, no matter how outrageous, if it was simply expressed and validated their prejudices.

Of course, many saw that complaining about EU membership over and above all the other economic and social problems of the time, was a bit like complaining about flies in the room when the roof was on fire. But others did not and the trick worked, due to press support and co-ordinated campaigns on social media. We even saw some of it here. Remember all those stories from Les and the jonnies about the Turkish ‘invasion’, about immigrants in general, much of it coming from those who might know something about justice, but very little about injustice. Big Jobby, BI and his ‘expert’ climate denier chum (haha!), the glamour-puss avatar in shades, and of course Les and the jonnies! It was a mad old time, when truth and experts ceased to matter.

In a disorienting climate of fake posts about fake stories by fake identities, racism came to be officially tolerated. Demonstrative patriotism was “in”, a very un-British thing, which recalled the fascism of the 1930s, with flags in people’s back yards, and the chant of “Ingerlund, Ingerlund” shouting down any arguments to the contrary. The union flag was even on display in the supermarkets, on your cornflakes, on your cheese and pie wrappers. Once, I was looking for some suppositories, but to my immense chagrin I couldn’t find a packet bearing the flag of St George. Imagine my shock and horror, as I explained to the chemist in Asda “I don’t want any foreign muck going up there!”

And meanwhile, those responsible for all this nonsense were smugly smirking at those dummies who keenly sucked it all up, and the Tories were forced to offer a referendum, which managed to reduce the defections to UKIP, but resulted in Cam’s resignation.

Yet, seven years on, we see the right was wrong. Trump, Johnson and Farage were always the charlatans they were said to be. Full of lies and self-promotion, these modern day Hitlers, Mosleys and their supporters told you to deny the evidence of your own eyes and ears in a bid to hold on to power. They knew that many wanted to believe their stories, no matter how outlandish, including you JI, simply because they confirmed their prejudices and didn’t challenge the status quo.

Well, it’s all over now. Most have woken up, and the real issues of climate and the environment, the rights of women, children, blacks, the disabled, concerns about inequality, low pay and foodbanks, the injustice of unaffordable housing, pathetic pensions, and deteriorating standards of health care, are the social and economic issues of our time which people are gradually becoming more clear-sighted and concerned about, as a new politics is starting to take hold.

30 years to make up your mind? Think again. There’s no point having a mind if you never change it.

[Gurnelista]

JI, all your post illustrates is that you can’t bear to accept you were sold a pup about Brexit. You’ve been persuaded of things that aren’t true. It’s no good having a tantrum about the comments of others on here. You know you’ve been had, and you’re raging at reality.

You comment on Brexit making the UK more democratic. The Tory party is actually making it less so. But, if you’re so concerned about democracy then why not start with the House of Lords, especially the Lords Spiritual? And, reform of the electoral system, instead of imagining it would be better to inflict economic harm on yourself and the rest of the country?

As for the state of many EU nations, socially, economically and politically, leaving the EU has put us at the bottom of all those leagues, so where is the argument that we’re better off out?

But most incredible is your comment that it’s still early days to make a genuine assessment, that it’s better to wait ten or maybe thirty years to make confident conclusions about leaving the EU! Then again you apparently voted remain but were happy leave won!! With opinions like that I’m surprised you can operate a computer, JI. Where do you get your information?

Think back and take stock for a moment. Remember how in 2014-15 the recession was biting hard. The way the government had imposed its austerity plan meant that many ordinary working folk, as well as those needing care and support – the very young, the sick and elderly – were being punished for the failings of the money markets miles away.

The Tories were losing votes to UKIP, and Cameron saw that Farage’s USP was offering a referendum on EU membership. So he chose to do likewise, believing that he’d win back ‘wobbling’ Tories, silence the far right loonies in his party, bring unity, and although it was a gamble, ‘remain’ would win. He was wrong, of course and resigned.

Then, post Brexit, we had Tory client journalists in the Telegraph, Express, Mail and Sun, all cheerleading the subsequent leaders, before each one got defenestrated by their own MP’s just months later. It seems the press were fully cognisant that Brexit would be awful, but realized the party had reached a point where success would depend on amplifying its lies & endorsing its nonsense, which it did and still does with aplomb.

Meanwhile, the crisis gets worse and worse, as do the lies, and here we are, with more and more coming to wonder why they ever supported Johnson, Trump, Farage and co., as they rage at being taken for a ride.

Really, Johnson is no more than a Benny Hill tribute act, but more dangerous. A totalitarian would argue there was no reason not to crowdfund a gibbet for him. As it is, he should just fade away into obscurity.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Iron-awe

[Gurnelista]

JI, it sounds like you’ve got cognitive dissonance. You believed so hard in Brexit but now reality is staring you in the face you can’t deal with the guilt and shame of having trusted people like Farage, Johnson, Trump, the jonnies and co.
You need to direct your ire at your own kind for spreading all that vile propaganda in the first place, including the totalitarians on here – the authoritarian personalities who support fundamental religion and far-right politics.
Come on, seriously, which of those EU rules were you so upset about, you still haven’t said? Was it bendy bananas?

[Gurnelista]

Remember the propaganda?

“Please, please, take 10 minutes of your time and then send it to everyone in your email list and place it on Facebook, requesting others to do the same. Thanks. I spent a very long time researching it all….” (© Lesgeo)

Yet, here’s what happened:

Part 1. Major misunderstandings refuted.
There is more red tape.
There is no frictionless trade.
There is a border in the Irish Sea.
The fishermen are worse off, as is just about everyone else.
America is not coming to the rescue.
Turkey will not join the EU. It was said that “one careful newspaper poll tried to convince people that 12 million Turks are considering coming to the UK”, and that “even if this was only 20% true (sic) it could not be prevented.” Another shameless racist lie, placed on Bru to frighten people. I mean, just imagine, all those awful Turkish people running around our cities, shagging our beer and drinking our wives!

Oh, and then there was the Trump-love, the dismissal of climate change, the disdain for BLM, and for foreigners in general never mind where they came from. For the truth, in fact.

So c’mon dear Brexiters, how’s it going for you? Tell us all about the control which has been taken back. Tell us which Brexit rule you wanted to scrap which made leaving the EU worthwhile.

[Gurnelista]

Proof, if any more were needed, of a conspiracy to fool people about climate change through PR capmpaigning. As many commented on here before, it’s like the tobacco industry when it came to be associated with cancer. In due course we’ll hear the same about the Brexit campaign, no doubt.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62225696

[Gurnelista]

Reminds me of a certain former poster on here.

[Gurnelista]

Two planets meet up for a chat. Planet A says: “How are you?”
Planet B says, “Not so well, I’ve got a bad case of Homo Sapiens”
“Don’t worry,” says Planet A, “I had the same once. They won’t last long.”

2 users thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66, Iron-awe

[Gurnelista]

Good stuff DM, white man’s blues. Sounds like a sedated John Cooper Clarke.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

[Gurnelista]

Really, all these candidates sound off about how bad everything is, and how badly change is needed (sorry AWG – change is a-comin’) like they’ve just arrived from planet Pluto, when they’ve been at the heart of government for the last 10 years or more! It’s as bad as PS and the club.

DM – the Truss piece could be in here – about pork to China. Note the primary school teacher faces for those who have trouble understanding words.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66, Northumbiron

[Gurnelista]

Deereyme66 wrote:

Here’s some philosophical questions Siderite – do you think attitudes like mine are not helping matters? If yes, and I changed my attitude to be more accommodating to folk with right wing views and swinging voters who go for personality, would that help matters?

I tend to agree with your point about not giving a damn on here, DM, but those who are door-knocking and making speeches can’t afford to be so blunt, even if they’d like to be, if they want to win over those near brain-dead 8-year old readers who cheer on the Tories while they themselves become ever more dependent on the state, can’t afford a house, live off foodbanks, live less time than their parents, and whose lives become ever more precarious.

It’s a bit like Stockholm syndrome.

They need to ask themselves one question – what/who has made them like this?

[Gurnelista]

Meanwhile, what really happened in the Downing St bunker……

[Gurnelista]

True, the opposition does need to ensure it appeals to a broad enough swathe of the population to get the Tories out. Trouble is, many voters are quite barmy, to put it mildly. For example, here we are in north Lincs, one of the poorest areas of the country, and where so many folk depend on the state in one way or another; for benefits, credits, for health, for transport, for pensions, for social support and protection of all kinds. And wherever they look they can see what a calamitously underfunded state everything’s in. And what do they do? They vote for a clown-car of a party dedicated to shrinking the state and to privatisation, and instead worry about kids in dinghies and about the EU. Why? Because they’ve been told they are the problem, not the bunch of %$£*& in Westminster and Downing St.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

[Gurnelista]

Northumbiron wrote:

When 20+ of your MPs, including several cabinet ministers think you’re unfit to lead the country, then they’re probably right.

What irks me is that it’s taking two and a half years for them to realise it!

Aye, like with Brexit and later with Johnson, when ‘everybody knew exactly what they were voting for’. And none more so than those with their flags, statues, and a reading age of 9.

Ever had the feeling you were cheated? We told you so.

[Gurnelista]

Well, that’s how some of ’em like it, apparently….
It’s the British attitude to sex – the more furtive/odd/bizarre it is, the more gratification they get from it!
I blame public schools.

[Gurnelista]

Astonishing! But not surprising.
https://www.ascento.co.uk/blog/are-you-aware-of-how-literate-your-employees-are
It’s easy to manipulate people when they can’t understand a complex argument. Politics and religion feed on this.
It’s even easier for politicians if you can use social media, fake accounts and advertising to bluff them into supporting for example Brexit, or Trump.

Finding a new Tory leader? Like trying to find a clean toilet at Glastonbury.

3 users thanked author for this post.

Northumbiron, Deereyme66, Iron-awe

[Gurnelista]

Deereyme66 wrote:

Maybe imagined it, I swear I’ve read numerous times, posters on Bru of a certain persuasion having publicly met each other before? Could be evil forces playing with my mind tank of course

Particularly the doppelgangers…

1 user thanked author for this post.

Iron-awe

[Gurnelista]

Me2.

It’s near enough impossible to debate anything serious on social media, particularly with religious dogmatists and their pick n mix choices from the Old Testament. Really, many would be happier living in the middle ages.

This link sets out the rational (i.e. non-religious) arguments about choice and lack of it….

https://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/abortion/mother/for_1.shtml

[Gurnelista]

Non football – is it a discussion forum about recent performances?

1 user thanked author for this post.

Just Iron

[Gurnelista]

At the High Court he was better in the box than Vardy.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Just Iron

[Gurnelista]

CBRP wrote: “Unfortunately he’s part of the rot now.”

[/quote]
True, Hill might have been good in the past, but all involved in this season have been damaged by what’s happened. Confidence is at rock bottom and the spectre of failure hangs over them. It’s best for all involved to have a fresh start elsewhere, and get on with a root and branch rebuild at the club.

[Gurnelista]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/24/so-youve-been-relegated-from-league-two-what-happens-next

[Gurnelista]

We fail again, but fail better.

[Author]

Posts