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  • in reply to: First One In. #286846
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    https://www.scunthorpe-united.co.uk/news/2024/june/alfie-beestin-signs-contract-extension-with-the-iron/

    Waste of money. Sigh.

    I can understand the concerns. Alfie has had several years plagued by sickness and injury. Covid seems to have gutted him for a year or more and then he got that injury just as he seemed to be regaining fitness. If the renewal fits the wage structure then I’m positive on this one. He’s shown flashes of ability way above current level so if it’s a gamble then I think it’s worth taking.

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    in reply to: Media training required for Butler #286753
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    I listened and found it OK. Had to turn it up a bit. Didnt find it particularly ‘mumbly.’Also found the content reasonably interesting. Can’t see a problem.

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    in reply to: First to jump ship #286605
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Probably nowt better to do. That’s about it. Mixed with a little bit of insensitivity and lack of appreciation or forgetfulness about what we’ve just gone through.

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    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    in reply to: Apology to JI. #286206
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Happy that you’ve had a change of heart. Of course all forgiven and we move on.
    I’m sure that the regular posters will be relieved that the forum can revert to less personal matters.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #286176
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Yep. I see what you’re saying, Deerey. It must seem pretty strange to an onlooker and I’ve been a bit surprised how restrained folks have been in their comments.Time to knock off. Ive made my offer to Bill. Nothing more on this from me.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #286173
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Bill ..you just don’t get it do you? Mediation is not about winners and losers…’a judge and jury encounter’ … its about finding a way to co exist, let go and move on in a healthier way. That’s reconciliation. That would be great.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #286170
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    I’m totally happy to meet up with a mature 3rd party to help, Bill. It’s a recommended route in situations of disagreement and conflict. I’ll drive over from Leeds and it can be your Pastor or Church leader who will be a total stranger to me. Nothing to do with judges or juries. We’ve got nothing to lose and everything to gain.
    Failing that then let’s reap the fruit of your statement that you’ve forgiven ‘completely’ and that you’re over it ‘completely’…. and put it behind us.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #286164
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Lots to regret in this for me. One huge one is that this has been aired in public. Maybe I should have kept stum when Bill aired his grievances. I did for a while but eventually felt that some explanation was needed. If you think that there is an intensity and relentlessness surrounding Bill’s grievance … you should see the phone and e mail record I’ve endured over the last 18 months. I certainly do regret responding to the initial request for personal contact and meeting a couple of years ago. A sobering lesson in this modern age where social media brings us into social contacts which are not altogether natural.
    My offer to meet Bill for mediation with a mutually trusted 3rd party still stands… but I have no confidence that a one to one will be productive. I do hope that we can both agree to disagree and finally move on … let’s see.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #286133
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Bill ..it was a qeneral quote from 18 months ago as part of the answer to your question. It wasn’t directed at you personally.
    If you have forgiven me ..completely…and got over it … completely… then it would be a relief to see that demonstrated.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #286124
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Gurney … How did you know I’m bald? Are you moving in the Spiritual gifts?

    BPG said : ‘ May I ask ,where have you ever presented the Gospel message on this site? Besides trying to be fair and show a holier than thou attitude,and showing you are a “good”(in human terms)person,trying to show other people how to behave,where have you declared we are sinful people who need to repent and put our faith in Jesus Christ(etc) . You have declared you are a Christian,true, but as for any interactional,you declare anyone who does that is confrontation and fighting a kind of battle to be won! Our friendly disagreements led to a false character assassination about a person you hardly knew ,and an arrogant attitude than had failed to seek reconciliation.’

    In answer to the above question Bill about when have I ever spelled out what I mean by claiming to be a Christian I would ask you to look again through this thread as a starter but also read one clear example below from January 2023 which is just one amongst several over the years. I suspect that you may not accept it because it doesn’t quite fit your own style but nevertheless it is a gospel invitation to repent and come to faith and points anyone interested to some helpful literature:

    ‘In challenging one another’s views we are all surely aiming to bring others to a more healthy and accurate perception of reality. The danger is, of course, and as Gurney kind of indicated but with evident lack of self awareness , that when our deeply held notions are challenged we may well lapse into a defensive ‘flailing’ where, at its most pathological, we resort to misrepresentation, mockery, insults, name calling etc An invitation to interrogate our own beliefs and even begin again is at least a strong part of the meaning of the Biblical term ‘Repent.’ Because of its association with ‘finger wagging’ and ‘fun spoiling’ it certainly ain’t a popular word … but when, for example, I’m asked to change my view on my faith it is .. essentially .. a call to repent. A call to adopt a new reality and live out of that. I’ve actually done that .. although in the opposite direction .. once in my life .. at age 24.
    And all of that leads me to say that I totally get why there is such a spectrum of responses on the Forum whenever I take it in this direction. It’s because a Christian claims to ‘see’ something that isn’t visible. And that can be puzzling to some .. but downright frustrating to the point of anger to others.
    If you’ve seen Kevin Costner’s allegorical film ‘Field of Dreams’ it’s the Brother in Law/ Financial advisor who warns the family to sell up before bankruptcy. They are absorbed in the spooky baseball game that people will eventually flock to but which brother in law in total frustration can’t see. Then he can. And his advice changes.
    The realm that I ‘see’ is hidden even though its right here. It’s transcendent but not distant. Deliberately so. God wants to be pursued because he knows that in that process something happens in the depths of a human being. Then they begin to ‘see’ into a realm that mere limited reason and perception by the five natural senses can’t access. Jesus said that ‘unless a man becomes as a little child he cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.’ The perception to many is that anyone believing that has indeed become childish. Its been said on the Forum in various ways a number of times. But the intended meaning is that we approach these matters with an openness and honesty and humility which can only be called ‘Childlike.’
    With such an approach we might talk more attentively to that relative or friend who claims to have a faith. Or we might send off for ‘Surprised by Joy’ by C S Lewis. Or have a listen to John Lennox or Alister McGrath. That’s what I would do if I were you.
    So I’ll sign off with one encouragement … ‘Repent ..For the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!’

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #286107
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    ‘It’s interesting to note how even atheistic and agnostic commentators in recent years are starting to harmonise with the meaning behind Nietsches statement that ‘ God is dead ..’

    Who do you have in mind JI? I’d be interested to know. We might be able to take a closer look and see just how atheistic or agnostic they actually are. Or aren’t.

    Aayan Hirsi Ali is one who has ‘full on’ abandoned her atheism and actually moved to Christianity. The main one that sprang to mind was Richard Dawkins who just a few years ago was saying :’I don’t despise religious people, I despise what they stand for. Mock them! Ridicule them! In public!’
    In an LBC radio interview a few weeks ago he was asked what Easter message he would give to listeners and astounded many people by claiming to be ‘a cultural Christian’… though not a believer.. who loves ‘ the Christian ethos.’ I felt that this was relevant to at least a part of the discussion on the thread in that such a prominent atheist ..even anti -theist.. was sounding more moderate and nuanced and connecting with the values in the Judeo Christian tradition … without necessarily embracing the dogma as true.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #286106
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Bill … you challenged me to show where I’ve ever shared my beliefs and not just my label as ‘Christian.’ It took some time to formulate an answer to Sidey so I couldn’t answer you straight away. I stated that it’s my intention to give an answer ….. and you’ve read into that an insult. If you genuinely think that airing your grievances in public and throwing derogatory labels around is a representation of the gospel then no wonder Deerey can conclude that ‘religion isn’t getting a good look on here.’ You’ve been hurt by me. It wasn’t my intention. If I could turn the clock back I would never have responded to your offer to meet up .. but I can’t. I thought I could give you some helpful insight. I was wrong. It’s time to extend to me some of the forgiveness you have received .. and move on.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #286101
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Why does this site need to gospel message spreading? It’s a football site and the points have been laboured by BPG on several occasions to no avail. BPG, JI, IronAge and others have found solace in their beliefs. That’s no issue for me. Yet the treatment of this site as a conversion ground for BPG grates and is unlikely to succeed.

    A bit of a mixed response from me to the above, Sidey. First this side of the Forum isn’t a ‘football site’ but an alternative place to explore wide ranging and diverse ideas. Secondly I don’t see why the presentation of certain beliefs should be somehow taboo. There are relatively few threads based on or even including Christian context on here.. certainly in comparison to humanistic, atheistic or progressive perspectives. If we look back at the opening few posts on this thread it seems reasonable enough to me that Christians should be free to respond. Bill is clearly eager to share his perspective and hopefully win over some of his audience …which, I suggest, is not uncommon to other posters too. If he sincerely believes in his views then why wouldn’t he want to share them as others do? Having said all of that I recognise that its probably more the nature of Bill’s ‘gospel message spreading’ that has irked you a bit.
    Where I understand how Bill’s approach ‘grates’ with you centres on your aversion to ‘Dogmatism.’ I find myself in agreement with you … with a qualifier to follow. If ‘Dogmatism’ is something like ‘the presentation of ones views as self evident and beyond reason or discussion’ then I am with you and also with others on the thread who have called out Gurney and others as well as the more dogmatic aspects of Bill’s approach. Being ‘Dogmatic’ is formulaic and lifeless to me and I prefer the creative and enriching willingness to have one’s ideas tested and refined. I reckon a good, and healthy, approach is to interrogate our own beliefs from time to time ..let alone being open to having them tested by others.
    Where I depart from Bill is not in the content of his argument but rather that he seems to lapse into frustration and then resorts to the posting of those video clips which just annoy people and come across as ‘dogmatic.’ I also think that being sensitive to the audience and the essence of the topic rather than forcing the flow into ‘evangelistic statements’, however true they might or might not actually be, switches people off ..or irritates them to bits. This can then be interpreted as being ‘offended at the Gospel message’ when there is a fair chance that it’s actually being offended at the ‘dogmatic’ approach.

    Having said all of that I refute any suggestion that holding to ‘a Dogma’ is being Dogmatic. It seems to be a very recent idea that its virtuous to have no solid convictions about ‘Truth’, especially in the Spiritual realm, and that if we do … then we should keep them to ourselves. I know its subtle .. but bear with me. Here goes.
    It probably won’t surprise you that I am in agreement with Bill’s premise that subjective morality loses its anchor outside of an ideal, absolute authority ..that authority being God. That’s a dogma .. a dogma being a system of core beliefs in any political or religious system. (I think it is worth mentioning that Christian morality is anchored NOT in something beginning in first century Jerusalem but in the thousands of years of the Judeo-Christian teaching and ancient revelation. It’s interesting to note how even atheistic and agnostic commentators in recent years are starting to harmonise with the meaning behind Nietsches statement that ‘ God is dead ..and there will not be enough tears to wipe away the blood!’
    I definitely do believe in the ‘Dogma’ or foundational principles of Christianity … ‘Christ has died. Christ is risen. Christ will come again.’ I hold as true the teaching that there is a transcendent Supreme being; that He is good and loving and longs for relationship with every person; that even though we enter the world with our spiritual faculties totally impaired they can be ‘switched on’ by a process of radical and humble seeking, called repentance, and all of this leading to the recognition that Jesus death and resurrection, at great cost, opens a way for us to enter this relationship.
    That’s my sincere belief …. My dogma. Its undoubtedly offensive to many. It always has been .
    What I want to avoid is forcing it into every discussion thread, giving the impression that I don’t care about the questions it presents to people and not knowing when to call a halt. Failure on those issues seems to me to carry the valid label of ‘dogmatic’ and leads to people being offended for reasons other than the intrinsic challenge of the message itself.
    (A free beer to anyone who has read through this!! Now I’ ll have to see when I can get some time to answer Bill’s challenge)

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #286089
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    The ‘silent one’, if you glance back even through this thread Bill, has made several clear faith statements ..but all in the flow of the discussion. I doubt that you would find little agreement from the regulars that I have been silent about my faith over a number of years. I could be wrong.
    As for apologising for offending …
    I reckon I’ve managed to offend a number of folks on here …you included. And you above all should know that I will only apologise when I genuinely believe that I’ve done something wrong.
    I guess what this boils down to is that I don’t see the presentation of the good news,the Gospel, as a confrontation or a kind of battle to be won. The challenge is in the message itself..the presentation should be with respect, kindness and sensitivity.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #286069
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Wot bill sez is troo … just the way ee sez it dunt elp no one. .

    (Head down!! Incoming!!!)

    in reply to: Premier League Champions 2023-24 #286052
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    If you don’t enjoy watching the likes of De Bruyne, Haarland and Foden plying their trade then there’s something wrong with you!

    Don’t forget that not so long ago people were fed up of Liverpool and Man United winning everything.

    All things must pass.

    I didn’t say that they weren’t enjoyable to watch. Quite the opposite. My point was around the issue of financial fair play and accompanying sanctions. Like IFA I hope that the scrutiny is evenhanded and that the big money from the Gulf doesn’t buy an out that Forest or Everton couldn’t run to. These financial regulations should be ditched if they can’t be evenly applied.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #286021
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Only posting my view JI. I’m not here to be appreciated or unappreciated, as you know.

    I do know .. but also reserve the right to give credit where credit’s due.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #285997
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Deerey wrote:

    ‘get rid of prejudice and racism for which religion is so often used as a fig-leaf.’

    Garbage that Gurney. You persist with this dualism but it’s meaningless. Some of the greatest scientists past and present are religious.

    [/quote]
    Knowing your views over some time, Deerey, that’s a reasoned and fair response. Appreciated.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #285996
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Hey Gurney .. what part of my post was incomprehensible to you? Seemed straightforward enough to me. You indicated that violence and death was a problem linked to people of faith as opposed to atheists. In light of Stalin, Mao, Xi, Pol Pot etc I suggested that you might like to have another look. ( OK .. I said it was delusional!)
    You also said that ‘coming out’ as Atheist’ would wreck a person’s career in public life. I challenged this as being the prevailing cultural norm. (OK. I said it was bonkers!)
    I am not trying to ‘get one over on you’ ..so there’s no need to be dismissive. I genuinely think that you have intelligence and communicative skills .. but that you are for some reason messed up in your arguments because of ‘blinding’ hostility to any faith position in general ..but to Christians in particular.

    in reply to: Premier League Champions 2023-24 #285995
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Can’t disagree with your assessment of Palace and Chelsea, IFA. Both impressive in the last fee weeks. Alot will rest on whether Palace can hold on to those 2 or 3 sparkling gems ..Alese, Eze etc
    Man City are brilliant. Pep is a genius. Foden is outstanding. Haaland is formidable. BUT … like you I am wondering if the best team involved in this equation is the City legal team. If I was a Forest or Everton fan ..or Arsenal and Liverpool .. I would be watching that aspect v carefully.

    in reply to: BarrieThomas #285973
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Yes. Happy Birthday indeed.
    I missed his first incredible spell…but did, at least, get to see him when he came back. Those 5 goals against Luton come immediately to mind.

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    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #285943
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Yeh … right. The weapons of the world are only held by religious folk. Atheists have nothing on their charge sheet!! Deluded.
    If a person in public life declared their atheism ‘they would lose their electoral popularity and privilege.’ Bonkers.
    Gurney..its not that there isn’t a kind of pseudo logic to some of your posts ..but the glaring factual errors, the exaggerations and the dismissiveness just make you come across as the very ‘evangelistic bigot’ that you rail against.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #285919
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    My kids too, IA. I wanted them to choose for themselves. I was ‘christened’ like most kids of that era .. but then baptised by choice at 23. All 3 of my kids independently asked for Baptism at ages 12, 15 and 18.
    There could be a big discussion around ‘indoctrination.’ I suppose it literally means ‘ putting in doctrine/ teaching.’ I suspect that, in most cases, its a label for criticising ‘the teaching of things as true which I don’t personally subscribe to.’ In reality it seems that most caring parents in all societies seek to pass on their values and outlook to their kids. One man’s indoctrination may be another man’s teaching of values.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #285914
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    ps the last line of my post is proof of nothing but my faith. The fact that you see it as you do simply shows the pathology of your outlook.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #285912
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    You definitely are down some kind of rabbit hole, Gurney. The only thing I agree with is …’ people should be free to believe in whatever.’ That was a relief to read … after your desire to campaign to ‘ rid the world of religious belief.’ Kim Jung Un … Pol Pot … Stalin … Xi. As the ol’ geezer used to say on the telly ..Some folks don’t never learn.’

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #285898
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Couldn’t have said it better, Iron Age. Gurney’s as near to an obsessive as anyone I’ve met in Church …and I’ve met some crazies.

    ps I believe, along with millions both through the ages and currently …
    ‘Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again!’ :)

    in reply to: Podcast #285772
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    I think you may be interpreting that a bit too literally CMC. Fully agree with all the rest of your comments though.

    in reply to: New broom sweeps clean #285771
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    ps I may be wrong but there seems to be a not so thinly veiled poke at Staffy and Jerry … ‘do gooders’ and all that. These guys love the club and have been great servants for decades. A bit more generosity wouldn’t go amiss.

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    in reply to: New broom sweeps clean #285769
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Even you ,Awaywego … with your immediate ‘buts’ ..had to concede and work towards a positive comment. Well done.