[Just Iron]

Fair point about Golan Druze, Iron Age …but a little oversimplified. The Druze of Mt Carmel and other areas are loyal to Israel and are very prominent in the IDF…as are the Bedouin of the Negev. I met my son in law’s Druze commander at my daughters wedding 12 years ago and it was very enlightening. The Golan Druze have been reticent about accepting Israeli nationality mainly out of fear of consequences should the Golan revert back to Syria. In recent years the younger ..and not so younger .. generation have looked at their surroundings and increasingly signed up for both Israeli nationality and the IDF.
My point was the one sided and blinkered responses by such as 64 who had nothing to say about the tragedy of the Druze kids. It’s so easy to pick a side and then beat the drum. I simply asked why.
Is it laziness and ignorance or …just Israel/ Jew hatred? My own flesh and blood are on the line in this conflict and it’s galling, even nauseating, to read the shallow and uninformed opinions of some posters who display no real knowledge and even less real empathy for ALL those involved.

[Just Iron]

Just repeating Gurney’s line of questioning , 64. How many deaths blah ..blah …blah. I was waiting for your outrage at the Hizbullah rocket killing ten Israeli Druze children. Maybe you’ve been too upset to post? Maybe not. Face it … either you just hate Israel .or you’re simply too lazy to widen your perspective and get informed. The old victim/ oppressor narrative saves such a lot of effort.

[Just Iron]

Don’t buy one then. Print out the fixture list and make your own. Others who want to purchase can do so. Problem solved.

3 users thanked author for this post.

IronIronIron, Iron-awe, Siderite

[Just Iron]

The last bit was also for you IA. I don’t wish that condition on you, Gurney or anyone. Turn from it. Sneering, mockery and deliberate perversion of facts give short term satisfaction … but eternal anguish. It’s never too late. There’s good news if you can receive it. Examine your conscience as to how you have conducted yourself on here in our exchanges and ask yourself why? There is a God and he cares for you in a way that no other being does or could. You could be free from this shallow subhuman one up manship and become the more noble, honest and growing person that you are supposed to be. That’s what I hope for …. for you and anyone.

[Just Iron]

Gurney ..liar. You’re not someone I have any respect for. I ceased posting to try to satisfy you weeks ago. Maybe there are one or two impartial observers who still have a glance to see what’s going on ..but probably few. My views were really only expressed for them to weigh. This WND nonsense confirms that you have no conscience. I had never heard of them until you denigrated me for watching them a couple of weeks ago and now, simply because it suits you, you’re at it again. Just as you spent months alleging that I was the alter ego for some guy called Les …until even some of the regulars here got sick of it. Your lying is only matched by your hypocrisy. If you had any real compassion for the suffering of human beings in Gaza it would be borne of an empathy for all human beings .. in the areas of the world I’ve highlighted, for Jewish hostages and their families and those massacred in October … and even for me. I’d say that you should be ashamed but suspect that it’s an alien concept to you … just as it is to your braying mate Hee Haw who wouldn’t understand a principal if it slapped him in the face. The folks of Gaza are simply a convenient token for your venom and bile against the Israelis. That’s all. They are nothing to you as human beings .. as am I. Someone once told me that you can’t satisfy hell .. its cold, merciless, without conscience and devoid of truth. You’re welcome to it.

[Just Iron]

I do. And you’re wrong.

1 user thanked author for this post.

billpuntonsghost

[Just Iron]

The answer has already been given, Gurnelista. Plain and straightforward. None. Zero. Zilch. No more killing. Not by bomb or bullet or knife or club. Every needless death is one too many. No more hatred or intolerance. No more imposition of religion or ideology of left, right or anything else. No more demonisation and wilful misunderstanding and misrepresentation of those presenting a perspective that challenges ours. No more ignoring of sincerely made points and deliberate ‘failure to understand’ in order to protect ones self image or ego. No more being part of the problem instead of part of the solution. There’s a darkness in this world and it runs right through the heart of man … including you.

OK. Now I’ve been clear on that point. Let’s re visit the realm of the hypothetical. If YOU were calling the shots in 1945 and had seen 1000s of US Marines killed on Okinawa and peripheral islands and tens of thousands of Japanese soldiers and civilians ..many by suicide.. you would have a call to make. The estimates coming in are of possibly millions more deaths if this continues. One option is to order all forces to sail home and leave well enough alone. Let the US and Allied pows fend for themselves. And the Chinese and Burmese and ‘comfort women’ and slaves.But there is another option ..terrible and swift. Unimaginable. YOU make that call with total rejection of any concept of ‘the lesser of evils.’

One for IA. Two guys break into your home intent on robbery, rape and murder. Your old dads loaded gun sits in the draw by your side as they advance with machete and knife.Do you want to kill? Are you a violent man by nature? Your call.

Simplistic ideological posturing may cut it for you ..but not in this real world of evil and darkness. I have nothing against you ..but you are thinking and pontificating in shadows ..not in the light.

[Just Iron]

I don’t know because, like you ..I don’t have any reliable details. The only difference between us is that I care about the facts.

[Just Iron]

Thanks IA. I do value your judgment as you well know.

[Just Iron]

I got lured in by the headline. I thought it was the latest from Northern Nigeria or South Sudan or Ukraine or Myanmawr. I forgot there’s only one conflict zone of interest. If only these other places had such professional and detailed reps as Hamas and then, if you could prove Jews were involved, you could widen your compassion circle.

[Just Iron]

Gurney … be assured ..I definitely don’t need absolution from you. I would need to have respect for your motives and integrity to seek that. When you answer some of my questions we might have a real and adult conversation.

[Just Iron]

IA I have to say that when you get out of your depth ..you’re like a child.

[Just Iron]

Zzzzzz

[Just Iron]

Gurney .. do you ever really read what I write. I said it clearly … and then gave the substance behind my thinking.
At no point did I say that innocent civilians ‘deserve’ anything. All you do is just fire more questions without taking any personal responsibility for replying properly to honest and detailed responses. Then you lob in a few insults like ‘sociopath’ and ‘severe personality disorder’ to clinch the deal. I don’t actually think that you are an honest broker in pursuit of anything resembling the truth…. just a partisan for your narrative. I actually wonder if you’re carrying alot of woundedness and resultant hate and this ’cause’ is a salve on the wound.
How about telling me why Israel occupies your thoughts to the exclusion of the numerous other tragedies involving far more deaths. And you tell me how many Palestinian deaths are sufficient for you. And how many Israeli deaths should the Israeli Govt have tolerated before taking the action they have? And does Israel have any right to defend itself at all … or should they do the decent thing and disband the country to rectify perceived historical wrongs. Let’s have a glimpse into your world ..unless it’s too painful or too ugly to disclose.

[Just Iron]

IA .. if you think that you’re so independent of outside influences ..such a free thinker who doesn’t go with the flow .. a would be martyr to secularism in a primitive age had you been alive at that time …then your lack of self awareness is even more pathological than even I suspected.

[Just Iron]

Gurnelista wrote:

Still no straight answer JI.
No deflections or waffle, this is a thread about Israel. How many deaths would it take before you’d call ‘enough’?

I’m saying ‘enough’ now, Gurney. Is that straight enough for you?

I believe in the sanctity of human life. I grieve over any violent deaths … Israel, Gaza, Syria, Sudan, Iraq, Armenia or in the womb. Im not selective. I don’t rejoice at the deaths of SS einsatzgruppen who shot women and babies into forest graves or Isis jihadis who beheaded whole villages or Hamas fanatics who ripped babies from their mother’s wombs. I feel saddened by the death of the misguided lad who took a pop at Trump and feel compassion for his poor parents trying to come to terms with it.
The world’s a broken place and there are incredibly tough calls to make. Say it ain’t so! But I start from lamenting the darkness at the heart of men who hold human life so cheap and forces us to engage with the concept of ‘the lesser of two evils.’

[Just Iron]

IA … So many questions. Would your own beliefs have kept you from obeying your King? When did your theological expertise tease out the relationship between the ten commandments and Christ’s proclamations. For you it’s just ‘snatch bits of ammo ‘ to lob at dissenters. One thing I’ve made clear on here over the years .. I think about things, follow my convictions and stand for them. Maybe that would have kept me off the Crusades. Not so sure about you.

[Just Iron]

I was just about to answer your follow up, Gurney …then it disappeared. Surely you’re not being censored … or maybe you decided to take it off? Not sure.

[Just Iron]

IA …your Crusades point is a red herring. No one disputes that they were done in the name of Christ. Its just that He wouldn’t have been on them ..nor me. It shouldn’t be too difficult to grasp that not everything done in the name of something is a true reflection of it. Unless you don’t want to grasp it.

[Just Iron]

Crusades? Now to do wi’ me. Or Jesus. Or the gospel. Red herring.

Every death is a tragedy for me, Gurney. War sucks. I’d be more convinced of the genuineness of your humane impulse if it wasn’t so selective. As we endlessly scrutinise the Israeli situation … 10 million refugees in Sudan and close to a million expected deaths, 600,000 slaughtered in Syria, Russians and Ukrainians dying by tens of thousands a month, tens of thousands killed in Ngorno Kharabakh and over 100,000 ethnically cleansed. No story there I think. Israel not involved.

ps I’ve never disagreed with the thinking behind your frequent statements 64 .. mainly because I’ve never seen any evidence that you’ve done any. All I see is provocations and no substance. Have you ever actually tried to lay out a case?

Anyhow. You’ll be glad to know that my family have just arrived at Heathrow from Israel. It went to the wire. Hizbullah didn’t quite provoke enough so my son in law doesn’t have to leave home and go to the Lebanese border …yet. I’ll consider telling him why he and his pals are such monsters … or maybe not.

[Just Iron]

Which Muppets are you talking about, Awaywego? As Deerey rightly asks …. Do you know that it came from within the Club?
Also …. What’s up with you?

[Just Iron]

Your compassion oozes from every pore but is superficial and born of fantasy. The killing need never have started. It could stop tomorrow. Let Hamas return such of the hostages as still survive, lay down weapons, declare an end to genocidal agendas and join those working towards peaceful co existence. Of course that scenario would be unacceptable to adherents to three agendas. Firstly the political imperialism of Islamism masquerading as religion which demands the subjugation of the Jews and the re conquest of all land formerly in Allahs ‘Caliphate.’ Secondly the ‘progressive left’ which can’t tempt the proletariat back from its package holiday in Majorca so has co-opted the Palestinian cause as its perfect victim fit in the ‘oppressor/victim’ pathological worldview. And thirdly the bleeding heart ignoramuses, several of whom dive in on this Forum, who have scant knowledge of the complex history of the area and have no real interest in learning more. For them its enough to generate the dopamine hit of faux outrage and signal their virtue not only to those who might flag a ‘Thanks’ to a ‘correct’ post … but especially to themselves.

Now I prepare for the ‘incoming’ …. but I firmly believe that my assessment is true and therefore …it needs saying.

[Just Iron]

Gurney will be on shortly to demand that this story is fully authenticated.
I do agree with you on the brutality of the occupying regime. Hamas are unapologetic and as brutal to Palestinians as to Jews. Let’s hope they are decimated to the point of eradication as a regime.

[Just Iron]

Now I can see why you rarely get past posting provocations 64. It’s gonna take you some time and effort to understand Sidey’s reasoned case. I hope you make it.

ps it’s Keir

[Just Iron]

I’m a Christian fundie ..but I’ve messed up because I don’t know what WND is.
You should know, Sidey, which side of the victim/oppressor narrative the Islamists are on. How dare you?

[Just Iron]

Good spot, Sidey. The Greens don’t appear to like energy of any kind.

[Just Iron]

Why are you so irritable all the time, Heath? My memory may be betraying me but I think I vaguely recall a time when you were civil and didn’t immediately resort to sarcasm or sneering. A simple request for clarification would have sufficed.
What I meant was that economic cooperation across the nations is one thing. A trend towards Globalised Governance is entirely different.
Many Brexiteers were accepting of the economic union ..EEC or Common Market etc.. but rejected the rapid politicisation of the market and the centralising of sovereignty in Brussels or Strasbourg. That was what I meant.

[Just Iron]

Heath wrote:

“leans towards a globalist rather than nation state template”.

It is the 5th largest economy in the world, so hardly a bad idea to think and act globally is it.

No disagreement re economic cooperation etc Makes sense to reach out globally. That’s not what I was referring to.

[Just Iron]

I really like de Santis.

[Just Iron]

Not really. I don’t see it in those terms. I think there are new markers and divisions in this era. I would see Gavin Newsom as a ‘progressive’ who rejects Judaeo Christian values, has some authoritarian tendencies and leans towards a globalist rather than nation state template. Some Californians seem to be voting with their feet according to the stats.

[Author]

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