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Ok. So stating you are wrong was never going to be persuasive. It’s probably as close as I get to giving an insult.
Meanwhile your last post alleges that anyone like me isn’t ‘striving for reality’ and is simply buying in to ‘frenzied conspiracy theories.’ Not far off the toxic tones of Gurney’s Trump post in which anyone like me is ‘dim.’
As I said .. I expected higher standards from you Sidey. And .. perhaps drawing back to the topic in hand .. it’s such inability to respect divergent views and even to respect the motives and rights of anyone differing which produces the kind of intolerance and totalitarian reaction which people like Niemöller, Bonhoeffer or Solzenhistyn spoke against. I may be wrong … .. but I’m certainly not buying into conspiracy theories or careless about reality. Neither am I dim. At worst … possibly just wrong.Wrong.
Hi Gurney. Not so dim. My ‘prediction ‘was quickly fulfilled.
Sidey .. to try one more time. It wasn’t intended specifically as a Nazi analogy. It was a famous quote from a principled man commenting from a totalitarian context ( which in his case happened to be Nazi) on the shortsightedness of ignoring judicial malpractice and bias if it is being applied to those with whom we have no affinity. That was it. I detest the way that the horrors of the Nazi era are invoked for cheap rhetoric as much as you do…… and for good reason.
Heath. Are you really saying that anything goes when dealing with people you don’t like. Dear God. We can abandon principles of honesty and consistency if we are dealing with dishonest and inconsistent people??!! Welcome to chaos. Welcome to hell!
IA .. I have said before that I find it a waste of time going to any depth with you because you ignore what I respond with.I suppose it’s of no interest to you that every previous President has papers from his time of office and that Trump was following normal procedures and was negotiating with the Documents agency. The raid was orchestrated for maximum effect in the run up to the mid terms. Even less will you be interested in Jo Biden’s documents scattered in several locations, including his garage and the floor of his Corvette. And since they were from the time of his Vice Presidency ..were illegally held. But why would you be interested? That would not fit your narrative. You know that Trump is bad and you know that he challenges the progressive agenda .. and you know that Jo Biden is on the right side of your equation. So let ‘the law’ work to target the bad and leave the good out of it. After all …the end justifies the means!
Oh. I’ll have to go. There’s a group of sinister looking guys knocking at my door. Hope the day doesn’t come when they also knock at yours.
Sidey said ‘I am not the one dipping in to conspiracy laden theories here.’
Then said .’Conspiracies are a two way street yet I have alleged none.’ So how .. in your world .. do these two statements reconcile???
I am also diligently searching for my refrences to a ‘nefarious elite.’
C’mon, Sidey. I’ve always found you honest and consistent in previous exchanges. Why does the Trump issue crash your standards?And there our mutual striving for reality hits the rocks … ‘Hunter Biden’s laptop has yielded nothing!’
ps Wot .. no Gurney?? Doesn’t he know I’ve posted?
pps I do think that I’m measured and moderate, Sidey. I think some of your comments ..eg ‘dipping into conspiracy laden material’ …may be sincere, but are the ‘go to’ strategy from the establishment and legacy media to denigrate and or suppress genuine concerns and debate. Conspiracies are a two way street my friend. Maybe you’re being played. I don’t think I am ..time will tell.
Sidey. Re Nazi analogies. Did you actually read what i wrote on that subject?
re the rest. Nope … no insurrection called for. Only in the minds of those who
are desperate to get the Donald. A narrative spun by the Democrats and bought into by those who trust the establishment media.
There may be plenty to dislike about Trump .. but bending the rule of law to get at him isn’t a good strategy for the future of the USA.Thanks for giving me permission to engage, IA. Also to believe what I want. Appreciated.
I definitely don’t believe I’m engaging with an unbiased participant when I offer anything on Trump in your direction. The number of times your ‘go to’ analogy on the ‘Footie’ side … when discussing Swanny or other ‘bad actors’ .. is Trump just confirms that he’s in your head and its enjoyable for you, especially rehearsing it to others.
The more serious indictments alluded to in your post may have been debated ‘ad nauseam’ .. including in two impeachments which were not carried and where Democrat lawyers doctored evidence .. but you’re right in saying both that the present indictment will probably come to nothing and also that the times ahead will be interesting.First, Sidey …and I don’t know why this irritates me so much … it’s Lineker. Please write out 100 times til you’ve got it and put me out of my misery!!
More seriously … my post WAS considered. I definitely didn’t jump in. I actually think that you’ve ‘gone off on one’ to some extent. Here’s why.
Firstly … I didn’t assume that you had me in mind . I’m not a frequent poster and it hadn’t occurred to me that you might specifically be digging at me. (You weren’t were you??) I meant that ‘straightening out thinking’ bit in a generic sense. Not taken personally.
Secondly I DO believe that Republicans should be fully subject to the rule of Law. As should Democrats. As should everyone.
What I don’t believe is that different standards should apply with regard to scrutiny, investigation and indictment/prosecution. All are equal in the eyes of the law .. if the judicial system is uncorrupted. No one should be targeted for scrutiny, investigation and indictment on the basis of their personal or political beliefs. No one is ‘above the law’ ..and no one is ‘below the law.’ I’d need some convincing that if Trump was back in his Tower playing at being a Businessman and was not a Presidential candidate then this indictment would ever have seen the light of day. The unease being expressed across the whole spectrum in the US on this issue is well founded. There is nothing ‘ludicrous’ about these concerns.
A final comment on your … ‘Lock her up! Lock him up! … cartoon. V amusing ..yet laden with deadly potential. I agree with the final caption but with a qualifier. ‘Going after political opponents (using the legal system for political purposes) is un-American.’ Its undemocratic, its dangerous and it’s corrosive of trust and societal harmony.
The next couple of years are going to be very interesting. A battle for the soul of America and …because there are some very big, bad countries watching .. a battle for all of our welfare.1 user thanked author for this post.
We are mostly on the same page on this issue, Sidey. Agree with all of this except the Trump bit. He has been targeted for political and electoral reasons and even many on the progressive side are unnerved by the indictment and feel it sets a dangerous precedent. I know that people are making a case based on suspicions. So investigate. That’s different to indicting. But do it impartially and even handedly. Are you aware of the ‘suspicions’ regarding the Mueller report and the first impeachment and the proven collusion of the FBI to stop Hunters laptop influencing the election? If you aren’t ..then why not? If so then why are you also not calling for indictment? Or is it irrelevant because its not Trump? Sure Nazi references are thrown around way too loosely. But any country that politicises its judicial system and shows partiality on the basis of your beliefs is heading down a dangerous road where ultimately none are safe … as in N Korea, or USSR or Nazi Germany. Hence my Niemoller quote on the other thread.
A battle for the soul of America!
I’m so glad to have the unbiased, non partisan and deeply researched analysis of IA and Sidey to straighten out my thinking.
Yet why am I haunted by the words of the Nazi era dissident Pastor Martin Niemöller : ‘First they came for the Socialists but I am not a Socialist … so I said nothing. Then they came for the Communists but I am not a Communist … so I said nothing. Then they came for the Jews but I am not a Jew … so I said nothing. Then they came for me .. and there was no one to speak for me.’
Just listened to the interview. Was going to buy only my second ever season ticket next week. Definitely doing so after what I’ve heard. I totally get the scarring and erosion of trust left by the previous regime … but I’m happy to shell out on the basis of what I thought was a pretty candid and clear presentation of where we are and what he’s about. I hope that in a couple of years we’ll see things coming to fruition and some real positive momentum. All our 3000 plus hard-core have been magnificent in recent months .. whether totally convinced or reserving judgment … and deserve to see our proud history rekindled.
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Paddy Mad ‘un?
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Totally at a tangent .. but since we are doing jokes … Did you know that Scientists have discovered that diarrhoea is hereditary?
Apparently ..it runs in the genes!
Boom. Boom.…even my wife chuckled at that one!
Had my first ever season ticket in our last League season. Not sure why..especially with Swanny still at the helm. I’ve always done what IA outlined because could only make 75% of games.This time round I’m going for it again. Seems great value to me …plus the more sold the more of a thumbs up to Hilton who has given it a right go so far.
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He’s here..he’s there…we’re not allowed to swear …Terry Heath! Terry Heath!
It always felt like a privilege to have someone of that ability in an iron shirt. Looking back … it still feels like a privilege to have regularly watched him.4 users thanked author for this post.
Some great memories there.
I would never have recognised Terry Heath, IA. Guess I can only recall that pic with the long squared off sideburns. Still my teenage idol. That languid style, body swerve and low centre of gravity. How many times did someone ask why Heath couldn’t combine his talent with Keegan’s workrate and will to win?
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Beestin out of the frame for most of the remaining games … should be a more than adequate replacement. Whatever our survival chances … someone ain’t giving it up.
Cliffie … ‘doff the cap.’
….. ah. Chess.
Now that has totally lost me … but a 4-1 win eases the pain!
Wot … no mention of religion, Gurney?
I had to double check it was your post.Heath … if you’re an Ashby lad then all else is bordering on irrelevant for me. We may have considerable differences in perspective .. but some things can’t be minimised.
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An interesting thread. The only useful contribution I can make is ( with apologies for nitpicking) to let Sidey know that it ain’t spelled Linekar.
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That World Cup, eh. Charltons thunderbolt against … Mexico? Pak Doo Ik at Goodson against Portugal … then up steps Eusebio. A Young Frank Beckenbauer shows that it wasn’t just Bobby Moore who could run the show whilst ‘smoking a cigar.’ The Argentinians and Mr Rattin … say no more!!
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My 14th Birthday!!!
Never forget sulking like IA at the sense of ‘unfairness’ when my Birthday got spoiled by the German equaliser. Didn’t take long to start celebrating again!!
Did anyone see the Alf Garnett film when he and the son in law returned from Wembley having seen ‘the 3 West Ham boys lift the trophy.’ They didn’t arrive home til Wednesday .. very much the worse for wear. The ‘Missus’ was waiting on the step in her rollers and demanded to know where they’d been.
‘They played extra time, didn’t they … silly M…!!’3 users thanked author for this post.
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