[Just Iron]

Ps This Bucks malarkey is a bit irritating. When Gurney found negativity about his relentless ‘JI is Lesgeo’ tactic he switched to equating me with Bucks. There were many perspectives I shared with Bucks … and some I didn’t. I certainly found his style abrasive … but then again I’ve made no secret of how unattractive some of the tactics and posting styles of current posters can be at times. Bucks, it appears, has pretty well withdrawn. I definitely do feel that my own perspectives sit outside the general flavour of the board in many areas and some find it hard to resist ‘reacting’ rather than responding. This approach has been labelled ‘edgy’ in the past but, as you know, it’s not what I would call it! On the whole I do enjoy the cut and thrust of the forum and especially the sense that I may be offering ‘summat a bit different’ at times.

[Just Iron]

I think I am ‘better than that ‘, Deerey and actually believe that you are genuine in saying that. I’ve definitely appreciated the divergent views … especially on the pro and more suspicious takes on Hilton.
Trump was not in my mind, Sidey. Not great to make assumptions and base a response on that without at least a qualification. I actually do agree with your post re truth and accountability for all.
On reflection I should hold my hands up and say that I knew my post would be provocative. I follow the U.S. scene probably more avidly than our own. I do think that it was reasonable to give the reference I gave … although the expected reaction, in my humble opinion, has at least as much to do with political perspective than examining fact based evidence. IA for example has absolute certainty that there’s ‘nothing to see’ regarding the examples I gave. I doubt he really has any more grounds for such certainty than any of us has. And since ‘the Donald ‘ was mentioned … he has been impeached twice and is steering his way through several court cases. Time will tell, as I said, whether the examples on the left will ever be deemed worthy of equal scrutiny. Netanyahu, for Heath, should be scrutinised under the Israeli system … and is being. The principle I referred to was equality under the law … not moderated by where one stands on the political spectrum.
Anyhow … glad to have dipped in again.

[Just Iron]

Sidey said … ‘Yet holding Trump to account is apparently anti democratic.’

And there we have it. I never mentioned Trump .. or Netanyahu for that matter.. or even Johnson.
I agreed with the posting. Then I gave an example from my area of concern.
Now the left v right pile on begins. If it’s a principle, guys … it’s a principle.

[Just Iron]

…. correction …Sidey’s post.

[Just Iron]

Heath wrote:

“Also looking forward to Uncle Joe and Hunter and Hilary being brought out”..

What has that got to do with Jonhnson?

If it is relevant, you missed Netanyahu off your list.

Hi Heath. I don’t think you read Deerey’s post. It was about holding politicians to account …. not setting precedents….protecting democracy etc I simply made reference to a particular area of concern for me as another example ( … and I’ve got IA’s permission to believe what I want so I’m in the clear there).
Just to clarify something … especially after our last exchange when your line of argument was something like ‘You’re wrong and I’m right … have you taken a dislike to me? I’m just sensing a bit of frustration that I’m somehow not striking the correct notes.

[Just Iron]

Iron-awe wrote:

Just to clarify JI there is no evidence to back up your claims but you carry on believing what you want to, it is a free country still, I think 🤔

. Thanks IA. I think that time will tell. I’ve no idea how you can be so certain ……. unless it’s because the named individuals are to your political taste and so the free passes get handed out. I’ve followed developments pretty closely over there and it’s a rats nest as far as I can see.

[Just Iron]

Agreed. Also looking forward to Uncle Joe and Hunter and Hilary being brought out from under the cloak of protection that is currently undermining democratic norms over the pond. Long live equality under the law.

[Just Iron]

Ain’t nobody got no gardens to water?

[Just Iron]

‘Right wingers’ … I’m not following much of this stuff …don’t do Facebook ie Twitter ..but do you have to stuff all that irks you into this vague category, 64?

[Just Iron]

Not a fan of cancelling folk but he’s had a really good run with his negativity and stirring. Hardly censorship. Maybe this thread demonstrates that if you give people enough rope they end up hanging themselves. He’s coming across as someone with a nasty agenda to me.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Iron-awe, ironfromafar

[Just Iron]

My response AA….sighhhh! Not just that the cup is half empty ..in AA world it doesn’t even have a bottom.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Noster

[Just Iron]

Not sure how so many people claim that he has helped them if his view of the world and mankind is so negative and bleak. The empirical evidence I was thinking of was his analysis of the origins of totalitarians of the 20th c, the pathologies he encountered in his clinical work etc I would just call him realistic.

[Just Iron]

I understand your perspective on Peterson ..but lots to disagree with you and the writer from my own position. However .. my main reason for responding is that final reference to his illness a few years back. As someone who has battled through a season of the old depression malarkey I don’t think such an episode disqualifies anyone from making a useful contribution and the use of medication is neither here nor there. For me I feel fortunate that I emerged with a deeper self awareness and empathy for the plight of others. I certainly think Peterson was humbled by what he went through. Any perceived ‘bleakness’ of perspective I think was in evidence long before his illness and …I suggest .. rooted in empirical evidence. To characterise him as negative is I suggest, to see only one half of the coin.

[Just Iron]

Don’t worry, Les. There’s one poster who has maintained for the last two years that I am your alter ego and all my contributions are really yours. It exempts him from both engaging with what I actually say and also from basic courtesy. Pretty dismal really. Maybe you should take over for a bit and I can have a couple of years off!!

[Just Iron]

I just read it. I might get the writer’s book. I really like Jordan Peterson and the contribution he has made in public discourse … but there are no pedestals I’m happy to fill. It’s interesting to me that this guy describes him as ‘right wing.’When I’ve mentioned Peterson to a couple of friends that’s how they’ve seen him too. I never did see him like that. Maybe that just confirms how far gone I am!!

[Just Iron]

Heath wrote:

Mockery? Just pointing out the point that you have loads of friends who wouldn’t vote to rejoin is hardly the point is it?

OK. Maybe I was a bit touchy there, Heath. But surely it WAS the point. Daz said that surely nobody now would have any positives regarding Brexit. I challenged that statement from personal experience ..my own views and many I am in contact with. IA gives a far more rounded and sensible analysis ..although I don’t agree with all of it .. and didn’t play the race card or liken me to Bucks to ‘see me off.’ As ever ..just asking for a bit of respect when perspectives differ. It should be intrinsic to a healthy forum.

[Just Iron]

If you need to resort to mockery, Heath.. at least stay ‘on topic.’ I made no reference to polls or majorities. I simply answered statement from Daz about ‘Nobody’. If I know ‘somebody’ ..indeed a few of them ..is it unreasonable to point it out
Gurney ..the fiend persuaded me last minute to vote remain. Your dossier has failed you this time. Why not ditch the lengthy response and just call me a racist. Saves bother

[Just Iron]

SODIron wrote:

Surely nobody still believes that Brexit was a good thing?

I know loads of people who wouldn’t vote to re join. Personally I can see the challenges associated with our exit but would be against re joining. It may be helpful for you to define ‘good’ before making sweeping assumptions. It may also be beneficial to the ongoing debate to recognise that correlation is not causation ie just because we have current societal pressures it doesn’t necessarily mean that they were caused by Brexit … ask the Yellow Jackets in France, the Dutch farmers or the German economists who haven’t kept Germany out of recession. It’s complex.
And …64 … it’s pathetic to keep playing the race card whenever anyone takes a view different to yours. Stop embarrassing yourself.

[Just Iron]

Might also explain my being ‘censored.’

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

[Just Iron]

..unless you decided to say who you support, how you came across David Hilton and any other background detail. That would be helpful.

[Just Iron]

Ok. And where does this leave us? I’m exactly where I’ve been for months. Concerned but hoping for a good outcome. Not prepared to join any crusade either way. Respect for differing perspectives. Ultimately …I suppose .. I fall back on my view that ‘football is the most important of the least important things.’

1 user thanked author for this post.

B.gray

[Just Iron]

Thanks IB. Glad that it was not seen as offensive. That wasn’t my intention.
The reason I posted … and wanted to probe your motivation … was, as stated before, that you are far more than a bystander in the limited world of this forum. You are deeply engaged and highly motivated. You are giving frequent and detailed posts regarding David Hilton and what Iron supporters’ response to him ought to be. I am not suggesting that you have been insulting or offensive in your posts.
The point I am making is that to avoid the sense that you are simply stirring up anxiety and fractiousness amongst a demoralised and largely impotent fan base I would like to see the same standard of transparency from you as you are asking from David Hilton. Your answer that you care about due diligence etc may well be true. But it’s not enough for me to disarm suspicion. Tell us why this specific ‘cause’ is so important to you beyond just general principle. Otherwise it might seem wise to say that you’ve made your principled point to us fulsomely and repeatedly … so why not move on and fight a different cause?

[Just Iron]

Was ‘shrugging off’ the fact that my ‘IB moniker’ post was apparently censored ..but 24 hours on it rankles. You obviously saw it Deerey ..as did IA .. what do you both think? I know that you sit in different positions re David Hilton, the speculation around him and why IB has become so prominent and persistent. But I’m really puzzled as to why …beyond a techno glitch ..that post was taken out. You both know how borderline obsessive I am re keeping it civil and having respectful discourse ..so have you any thoughts on this?
From my perspective I stepped in to point out that a bystander is usually an observer and not engaged in influencing ..especially in a highly committed and persistent manner. So I was probing to get a bit more explanation/ccountability from IB. Seems fair enough to me … especially since his own stated position is to get us to hold David Hilton to scrutiny and accountability.

[Just Iron]

Hey …Where’s my ‘moniker’ post?.It must have been there judging by a couple of replies. I hardly contribute ..then apparently censored. I’m off to see my MP!!

[Just Iron]

Awaywego .. ‘he and his mate’ incurred considerable costs as far as I’m aware. I don’t think they ‘sold’ anything. Exactly what motivation do you think that ‘he and his mate’ might have had? It’s fair enough to express genuine concern in a time of massive uncertainty … but unwarranted insinuations ain’t helping the club or anyone else.

[Just Iron]

I had a wee dram of Talisker Skye only last week. I get into my malts once in a blue moon when a particular mate drops by. Talisker Skye was the choice. (Told you that I believe in miracles, Deerey!!!)

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

[Just Iron]

Lots of injustice and moral causes out there, IB. Why this particular crusade?

[Just Iron]

I’m happy to transfer a tenner SST. How do I get the bank details? Is your e mail accessible on here?

[Just Iron]

You do it then! Why does it matter so much to you? If you’re not in ‘our position’ then where does your motivation for all this detailed and time consuming engagement come from? I resent any inference that I don’t care about my club just because I’m not leaping into some sort of frenzy of activity. You have all this data. You take responsibility and get the press involved.You take ownership for what you are telling us you know … and if you prove yourself both correct and effective in acting to help our club to secure a better future then I will thank you.

5 users thanked author for this post.

ironfromafar, BobbyGmeister, Cliff Byrne's Right Peg, , RoamingBull

[Just Iron]

IB … that’s alot of info for you to research and then post. You are highly motivated ..I just can’t be bothered to do anything but wait.

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BobbyGmeister

[Author]

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