[Just Iron]

Stanton?

[Just Iron]

As long as they are coffin up the dosh, no complaints.Remember that our financial situation has been grave.

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Awaywego

[Just Iron]

There’s no chance of you just letting it go, 64? Bygones be bygones and all that? Sometimes that’s the best way ..though I’m not party to much of the toxic stuff that was on social media during the ‘dark time.’ I know it was strongly called out on here .. there were clearly some immature idiots having their say. If its as bad as you say and still ongoing I’d suggest an appointment with someone at the club. I guess thats why you made that contact with liaison. All most of us on here can do, to be frank, is to shrug and hope that unity grows and the legacy of the ‘dynamic duo’ fades into the past asap.

[Just Iron]

64 wrote:

They went into it in good faith and most importantly a wish to be part of SUFC ,I personally think it looked a bad deal and reckon they don’t need their noses rubbing in it,they’re just good fans

Yep. Of course this needs working out for those who bought in .. but the comment above should surely be central to our thinking.

[Just Iron]

Rene ..ever thought of fund raising for them by being sponsored per word in your posts? There’s a fortune right there.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Rene Artois

[Just Iron]

I saw a sparrowhawk trying to subdue a crow on the north Leeds ring road a few years back. Stopped the traffic. Don’t know who won the wrestling match ..but the crow wasn’t having it!

[Just Iron]

I was always amazed, pre-Covid and even later, how little they charged for a pint of my favourite ..Dark Mild. Wondered how on earth it could be profitable. I was a bit surprised by how much it had gone up in more recent days ..but seemed more realistic. I hope the Brewery survives ..along with the Berkeley and the Emmotts Arms at Rawdon near me ..and I won’t lose my couple of pints of Dark Mild.

[Just Iron]

[Just Iron]

64 wrote:

Ridiculous Johnson supporting moon faced brexiteer comes out of hiding to claim credit for decisions made by axl quango? Such irony

Is there a mod available to get this to where it should be?

[Just Iron]

Siderite wrote:

I like The New Showground.

Me too. Connects us with our history and has a poetic ring to it. A long way to go ..but maybe we’re seeing better days coming over the horizon.

[Just Iron]

I wasn’t referring to you, IA.

[Just Iron]

You’d have to define ‘a rant’ IA before I could see if the cap fits. I referenced facts re the news reporting and the barbarism I quoted was only a small part of the savagery which Hamas perpetrated.
The gleeful eagerness with which so called evidence of Israel’s crimes is met in the wider sphere ..and to some extent on this forum .. whilst minimising Hamas’ clearly stated and thoroughly demonstrated murderous intent is dispiriting and sickening. You mistake my general respectful tone and politeness for ‘a velvet glove.’ I don’t want to drift into the endless and near abusive wrangling that so many discussions seem to deteriorate into. I like to be respectful and try to see where others come from. But I ain’t wearing no gloves on this one.
A further observation would be that some posters are engaging in a form of serial ‘baiting’ to draw a response .. I’m not sure what satisfaction it gives but we humans draw comfort from some strange places.

[Just Iron]

‘Today’s news.’ That wouldn’t be the same news that repeatedly proclaimed that an Israeli missile had targeted a hospital 3 weeks ago and, using Hamas stats, had killed hundreds of innocents. After the damage had been done ..cue a whimpered apology that the rocket actually killed a handful of people in the hospital car park AND was a misfired Hamas rocket. Was it also the same news that took a Reuters Press release this week that as Israel entered the big central hospital they were targeting medics and Arabic speakers. Again a repeated news item stoking the anti Israel and anti Jewish feeling across the nation. Then comes the snivelling apology that the Reuters statement was that Israel were actually deploying Medics and Arabic speakers in their offensive to try to help civilians.
All very worrying for all those of us who are trying to navigate the deep moral challenges that this situation presents. Maybe we should start on some solid ground .. that if you are an Israeli Jewish mother and Hamas gain the ascendancy then you can look forward to having your baby baked in an oven before your eyes before rape and murder. And filmed and posted on Facebook or WhatsApp on your phone so that friends and relatives can participate.
And will my response make a jot of difference on here. Probably not. But at least those who don’t see Hamas as anything more sinister than ‘Resistance’ can keep Jetemy Corbyn company.

[Just Iron]

Must be great to be a Mod and sit posting this bile knowing that you’re in control. Despicable.

2 users thanked author for this post.

bartonscorpion, Siderite

[Just Iron]

Deereyme66 wrote:

I appreciate your personal and domestic circumstances JI, but I really don’t think the non football side of Bru is or should knowingly be a platform for propaganda.

Agreed, Deerey. And I called it out.

Heath .. its not a unique tactic to resort to insults but its not a good look. I know where you are coming from and am usually of a different persuasion…but from past experience I don’t expect to see a change. That was my post to you. There was no patronising. I wish you were more open to a genuine exchange but its your call.

[Just Iron]

Wasn’t patronising Heath. Stating facts. And certainly not telling YOU what to do.
You may not be in any kind of war , Deerey. But then you don’t have a daughter and grandkids in Israel. You don’t have nephews hauled back into uniform. And you don’t have to engage with folks in the flow of daily life who want to ask how my family is and then, having watched another 10 minutes of BBC news, give me a mini lecture on how Israel is failing the world. A propaganda war indeed.
For you Gurney .. although I’ve rarely engaged with you without an acute sense of your personal distate for my beliefs and your inability to disassociate from that .. I would say that if you think there is nothing to fear in all of our lives then I have to question your critical faculties. We all share a common humanity and there are many things that are going wrong for vast numbers of people ..and they could be much worse. I think the metaphor of war is entirely appropriate .. most reformers, advocates for social justice and campaigners for truth and righteousness have used such imagery in the past and in our own times. There are a number of ways I engage. A tiny part is on this board and this Israel thread ..but am happy that Sidey and others have more time and energy. It will probably disgust or incense you that my main weapon of warfare is prayer

[Just Iron]

Deereyme66 wrote:

‘Fight the good fight, Sidey.’

You keep dropping that JI and tbh it grates. What fight? We’re not in a propaganda war; we’re giving our thoughts on current affairs. You may see it as a fight, in reality it’s the non football side of a football forum. As for the rest of your post : ‘no comment’

‘Fight the good fight’ is a metaphor, Deerey. (I think you knew that)
Sidey has the time ..and inclination .. to engage with this issue and generally reflects alot of my thinking where I don’t have the time or energy.
Whether or not it grates on you isn’t very high on my list of priorities.
Oh … and wherever this issue is raised … we definitely ARE in a propaganda war.

[Just Iron]

Genuinely surprised by that response Iron Age. Not sure what to make of it to be honest. Do you get all your modern history and political perspectives directly from the Bible?

[Just Iron]

Fight the good fight, Sidey. Glad you’ve got the time.
Iron Age .. your take on the history is breathtaking in its superficiality. Anyone can speak out of ignorance .. but in the age of Google, books from Amazon and You Tube it’s less excusable than it used to be. I won’t give the same challenge to you, Heath. You seem to plough the same furrow on most issues and I guess you ain’t shifting anytime soon.

[Just Iron]

Somehow, Gurney … I never quite feel that pursuing truth on any topic I venture an opinion on is the point for you. Its become personal. It incenses you that anyone holding ‘my despicable perspectives’ should express them in a way that may be categorised as measured and reasonably respectful. Resorting to the Les and Jonny guff, a little poke at my faith .. characterising my posts as ‘grooming’ and ‘propaganda’ and somehow patronising. When we first locked horns I felt that some of your responses and strategies were beneath you. As things have developed over a few years I’ve revised my opinion.

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bartonscorpion

[Just Iron]

Your prerogative.

[Just Iron]

I’m less keen. I think he understands the pain and suffering of the Palestinians but doesn’t have true a grasp of t’other side. I think he was genuinely horrified by the events of October 7th … but that’s ages ago and gravity is kicking in.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Siderite

[Just Iron]

Deereyme66 wrote:

Thanks but that’s not what I asked.

I tried my best. I can’t give exact figures.

The issue that I see for you is that you don’t know who to trust, if anyone. I am less conflicted. I may well be compromised by ties to Israel but I don’t think so. I am comfortable to say that I always try to follow the truth where it leads, even if I have to change my perspective. I have researched this issue and been as rigorous as I can over more than 30 years. I don’t believe that Israel currently has ..and probably never has had .. a real partner for peace. I want the minimum death and suffering today and tomorrow and next week … but not if it means a vast multiplication of pain next year or in ten years time. The real issue for all of us is the legitimacy and morality of the state of Israel. Whether Moslem and carrying the pain and shame of a Jewish population existing and thriving on land once conquered for Allah .. or ‘western progressive’ seeing Israel as an expression of the evils of colonialism at the expense of the ‘innocent indigenous population’.. it will be hard not to place Israel on some sort of moral equivalence with Hamas ..maybe even to go further and celebrate the ‘freedom fighters’ over the evil Jewish usurper who had it coming. Its make your mind up time. Maybe, deep down, you already have ..but at least give ‘What Justice Demands’ by Elan Journo a go. (You don’t have to tell anyone
. and Gurney will never find out).

[Just Iron]

Accepted as a genuine question, Deerey.
The number of Hamas related deaths is difficult to quantify. We roughly know the number from October 7th. We don’t know if the roughly 240 hostages will be added to that figure. We know that Hamas killed over 160 Gazans .. Gays, Christians, ‘collaborators’ and especially Fatah members when they took power in Gaza. They have killed others since ..but no one will ever know the number. They have killed hundreds of other Israelis in rocket strikes and other terrorist attacks over the last couple of decades. There is a school of thought … to which I subscribe … that says that whatever the genuine figure of Gazans in this crisis the main culprits are Hamas.
The number of Palestinians killed by the IDF over the years is also difficult to quantify if we feel the need to compare figures. I don’t know any Hamas members personally. I do know what they say and do and believe, on the basis of both, that they are genocidal against ALL Jews..not just Israelis…. and that they place little value on human life, not even their own. I know many Israelis, male and female, who are past members of the IDF or currently serving. Several are family members. I haven’t met one who has exhibited pathological tendencies. Certainly none are genocidal. I haven’t even met one who hates Arabs. Maybe I should widen my circle … but I’m not attracted to fraternising too closely with anyone from Hamas.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Siderite

[Just Iron]

And ….. even though Hamas have killed not only Israelis but plenty of Gazans over the years .. and have used their own as human shields ..and know the ‘tide’ of humanitarian impulse favours their cause with every passing day …we DEFINITELY should take all these figures at ABSOLUTEly face value because they are produced from the impartial and trustworthy source that is Hamas.

Just thinking out loud. Now how on earth did that transfer to Iron Bru. Couldn’t have been me. I’m taking a break.

[Just Iron]

As I said .. before Gurney stepped in with his measured and non partisan expose to urge everyone to stay clear of thinking which might emanate from a place that doesn’t harmonise with him .. try ‘What Justice Demands’ by Elan Journo. Not lightweight but scholarly and definitely a challenge to much of the ‘received wisdom’ regarding Israel. ps I will wear any cap that fits me, Gurney ..but if you want me to be ashamed then you will need to bring some substance rather than ideological and ‘Christianophobic’posturing.

[Just Iron]

Breaking my vow of silence just this once… and I have actually kept to it for a few weeks… to do two things. First to commend you Sidey for a detailed and principled stand which reflects a well informed and humble attitude. Keep up the good work even as the accusations of being deluded and biased start to surface.
Second to recommend two books. One is ‘A State Beyond the Pale’ by Robin Shepherd. The second, more detailed and definitely the best I’ve read on this topic, What Justice Demands’ by Elan Journo.
All the best everyone.

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bartonscorpion, Siderite

[Just Iron]

I’m taking a ‘Bru Sabbatical’ for a while for personal reasons ..but this Israel situation is far from over and the gravitational pull towards Israel being as culpable as the maniacs will take its inevitable course. Fight the good fight Sidey. With you in spirit.

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TwoWrights

[Just Iron]

billpuntonsghost wrote:

…hopefully JustIron will throw his weight behind supporting the video?

In a horrific few weeks for me, friends and family re Armenia and now Israel it’s been a source of genuine sadness to me that you are still relentlessly looking to me to affirm and validate you, BPG. Not only on my personal number, which I deeply regret giving you, but also on this site you have no problem demanding responses that I am perfectly entitled not to give. To be clear I don’t enjoy debate by video clips but you are free to do as you please. If recent history is anything to go by my response will likely now result in outrage and a series of texts expressing your anger and disappointment. Please call a halt both to this public sniping here and the private texting. In many areas we see things differently and we certainly have a different approach. I believe that you are free to conduct yourself as you wish ..but the same acceptance has to be afforded to others.

[Just Iron]

I’m impressed with the level of exchanges on here as we all wrestle with this horror show. Well done Sidey on some great points made.
To III and IA I would agree that going back to origins is extremely relevant. I wouldn’t agree that it’s a fair assessment that the Jews were given too much leeway between 1917 and 1948. Anything but. The UK was actually rebuked by the League of Nations in the 1930s for not fulfilling the Mandate to encourage Jewish settlement. We might also reflect on the 800000 Jews hounded out of Islamic nations after Israel was birthed and also the hundreds of 1000s of Holocaust survivors in European camps after WW2 with no welcome from most nations …not to mention the closing of the Mandate to Jews in the Nazi area which effectively steered millions to the gas Chambers. Not too much leeway for me!!
The charge that Israel ‘started the 1967 war’ I have heard before. I know why a kind of case may be made because of Israels pre emptive air strike ..but no serious historian denies that the Arab armies were massing with anything other than ethnic cleansing and Genocide in mind. This kind of distortion of history and the encouragement of a victim mentality amongst Israel’s neighbours is what perpetuates this problem. If anyone believes that Hamas, Hezbullah, Iran et al are partners for peaceful co existence then I’m a Mariner through and through and Matt Tees was my grandma.

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Siderite

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