[Just Iron]

Absolutely agree. Thanks for posting. And well done to Lee, Glynn and Raj for seeing an opportunity to be part of something in the town that brings people together.

[Just Iron]

Had a few minutes to spare so had a read of Gurney’s ‘excellent’ theological treatise. Apart from the obvious error re St Paul … the ‘Factcheckers’ also asked me to point out that the ‘30000 despondent figures from the Middle East’ should have read ‘31200.’

[Just Iron]

Wasn’t really expecting an ‘on topic’ response to my post from you I A so not disappointed. How about looking at my observations on ‘30000 civilians’ and actually giving a genuine critique.
(You’re probably right about some frustration in my responses. Heath definitely seems ready to just bellow on Israel and a range of other topics. It’s hard to penetrate that. Your approach is more ‘hey ho and away we go’ , skirting the edges, a bit of mockery and making sure that you don’t get too embroiled in actual detail. I’d actually like to be ‘ brought to book’ because I’ve learned that holding erroneous perspectives doesn’t lead to a healthy place. None of us can actually be damaged by reality .. though facing it can sometimes be a bit painful.)

[Just Iron]

So …still no response to the points I made re ‘civilian casualties.’ If you are alleging that I don’t have a high regard for your approach to debate, Heath .. then in this case you’re bang on the money. Once IA jumps in with his name calling masquerading as pearls of wisdom then it’s probably game over.
I’ll try one last shot. 64 referred to 30000 civilians casualties. I pointed out 3 things. 1. These figures are produced by the group that intentionally murdered over 1200 men, women and children and declared their intention to kill more. 2. Hamas had the best part of 20 battalions of trained fighters in Gaza before the fighting. Can anyone seriously suggest that a large constituent of the deaths are not Hamas fighters? 3. Before a highly critical watching world how would it make any sense for Israeli forces to target civilians?
All you need to say is something like ..’Yep. Points taken, JI. Probably the 30000 is a misrepresentation or exaggeration. I get that. But ..(And then make your zero sum case for the Israelis being the villains and the Middle East ..maybe the world .. being a better place without them.)
What do I now expect? Probably accusations of ‘superiority’ or ‘self absorption’. It would be great to be proved wrong.

[Just Iron]

Heath wrote:

Case proven, so how many Gazans have been murdered. I suppose the satellite images of mass destruction are fake as well.

Thought you had permanently done one.

I’m confused. I thought the point I was making was that the the ‘30000 civilians’ figures are not reliable. Not that there hasn’t been huge destruction.
I’m also confused about the ‘ban’ you wanted to impose upon me, Heath. I never saw the word ‘permanently’ in the terms and conditions. I think that’s just a product of your wishful thinking ol’ pal.
Anyhow .. to be clear .. I’ll stay off this site most of the time because, as illustrated by your reply to me, you either have no intention of .. or don’t have the capacity to .. address sensibly made points if they challenge your narrative. Additionally .. to be even clearer .. I’ll post on here whenever I feel like it and, without holding my breath, look for reasoned responses.

[Just Iron]

30000 civilians casualties!! 3 reservations … 1. Figures supplied by Hamas 2. The ultra technological, Israeli war machine couldn’t find any ‘freedom fighters’ to kill…. at all. 3. Its absolutely, definitely, certainly the case that Israel wouldn’t have ANY interest in limiting civilian casualties before the intense scrutiny of a highly critical watching world.
Other than that ..case proven.

[Just Iron]

CMC wrote:

So it’s perfectly alright for the club to be losing money and backing as long as it doesn’t reflect on the manager
Coming from a Hilton Apologist, sounds about right.

Just stating facts,CMC. I did say that the dire performance cost us fans and money. Just not to the extent you opened with.
What’s with the Hilton comment? Maybe it was aimed at someone else? There were some who defended him even to the last ..but not me.
I’m not a fan of Jimmy Dean (although I can’t see him going anywhere til the end of the season .. and even beyond if he pulls off promotion)but exaggerating facts to ramp up hostility isn’t a great strategy.

[Just Iron]

Back to the opening statement CMC… the performance on Tuesday never cost us 1700 to 1800 fans or £30000. We were never going to approach 5300 on Saturday ..even if we’d won on Tuesday. A good win might have given us a 4500 crowd on Saturday at very best. It was a dire performance. It’s cost us fans, money and momentum .. but those figures are an exaggeration out of dislike of the Manager.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Ferrite

[Just Iron]

Obviously, Deerey.
However I’ve always advocated for a touch of the old ‘I may not agree with his opinion but respect his right to express it.’ That’s probably why I’ve struggled on here. I have an occasional look … but seeing you dismiss someone like Peterson in that way makes me remember why I ended up disappointed and felt I could make better use of my time. As has been flagged to me several times in the past ‘Its only a football forum’ but, no matter the level, its only qualities like courtesy, genuine attempts to understand and honest discourse that serve the good.
I’m pretty sure that we would do ok in a face to face but this isnt my cup of tea. All the best anyhow. ( Until I pass through again and can’t resist a comment)

ps Sidey … Good job with your Israel/Palestine efforts.

[Just Iron]

‘Jordan Peterson is still a c….’.
Conservative? Critical voice? Contributor with whom I disagree but worthy of some respect?
OK. I give up. (No need to reply .. I was only passing through Deerey and am aware that I haven’t served Heath’s full ban yet!)

[Just Iron]

Thanks NI. That sheds more light. Sometimes there’s no one actually to blame. Just a pity for the travelling support.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Rene Artois

[Just Iron]

Nowt wrong with a bit of fishing info.

[Just Iron]

Iron-awe wrote:

Poor misunderstood JI, he’s still hanging on though.

Yup. That’s the ticket ,IA. When you don’t have a response to, or maybe understand, the argument … make it personal. I absolutely don’t feel misunderstood. I ‘did one’ from t’other side because folks who didn’t like my perspectives resorted to what you just did .. made it personal. Then it just becomes a waste of time.

I agree with your take on the Man City debacle, Iron Age. I would be watching very closely if I was an Evertonian. As IA has repeatedly said .. the stench of corrupt money and the selling out of the lower levels of the pyramid since the inception of the Premier League is nauseous. My comments re Trump were because a)it’s a really bad analogy you made. His opposition are ‘lawyered up ‘to the hilt too. b) there’s the assumption that everyone sees Trump in the same light … so it’s fair game to arbitrarily introduce him into a thread about corruption in UK football. Current US polling figures suggest that the assumption is wrong.

[Just Iron]

‘They’ll lawyer up’ alright Iron Age. In the style of BOTH Trump and those who’ve initiated many lawsuits from amongst his opponents. Not sure why referencing him might be seen as some sort of clincher.
Unless its blindingly obvious that its an appropriate analogy ‘cos EVERYONE has absolutely the same assessment of Donald.. except of course for at least 50% of the US electorate.)
ps I feel ‘non football’ beckoning ..but I’m exiled from there because of posts like those one :)

[Just Iron]

Just a thought. Not rocket science or anything. If we have a hard game on Saturday and there’s is easy and they gain points… won’t that possibly be reversed later in the season.Has anyone the time or inclination to compare our last 20 games to theirs?

[Just Iron]

Bartoniron66 wrote:

Also will ask my nephew he might still have a top kicking around, what size?

Great. Thanks. He is nearly 7 years old. That’s best I can do. If you come up with anything we can arrange price and hand over. Appreciated.

[Just Iron]

Just keeping this enquiry in view.

[Just Iron]

Might drop by and make a purchase ‘For my Lady.’

[Just Iron]

Looks good. Ordered one.

[Just Iron]

I love travelling for 10 minutes to an AWAY game rather than 75 minutes to a home game. Looked forward to it for months!
(ps Are you visiting your family in Rodley IA?)

1 user thanked author for this post.

SODIron

[Just Iron]

Haven’t picked up why Smith and Roberts were absent. Roberts still carrying a knock? Smith ….??

[Just Iron]

Can’t make tomorrow BUT … Farsley is only 3 miles away for Saturday (even my wife is coming!!!!)

3 users thanked author for this post.

lesgeo, Awaywego, Rene Artois

[Just Iron]

I was once .. and only stopped playing that year! (Mind you .. it was 31 years ago.)
I think we might just be better with Andy Butler up front .. unless the NHS fast tracks me for my knee problem.

[Just Iron]

Is it just me …. ?????

[Just Iron]

BigLeftToe wrote:

21 with no hints. What do I win?

You’ve won a half season ticket to watch the Mariners.

[Just Iron]

13 …no hints. Half from guesses!

[Just Iron]

Had a secret bet that you’d turn up if there was a chance of scavenging a bit of cheap satisfaction, Gurney. What took you so long?
No need to press your point Heath. You’ve made sure that you’ve staked out the territory… either agree or be ridiculed and coerced. If Gurney or anyone else thinks this is ‘heat’ then, apart from making me laugh, it’s just a confirmation that presenting views that don’t chime with the mini consensus is a waste of time. Tolerance used to start where agreement ended. Not on this sight. Not in your world. You’re welcome to it.

[Just Iron]

Deereyme66 wrote:

‘Enjoy your little agreement club.’

It’s nothing of the sort, and that is exactly the type of response I meant by ‘Bucksiron’. You’ll be grouping anyone who doesn’t agree with you as ‘usual suspects’ next. Posters are submitting their opinions to greater or lesser degree. There may be some convergence of opinion, there may be differences. And that is that. Your desire to ridicule and undermine opinions is cheap. ‘Ideological’? Oh the irony. That’s hilarious.

You’re fooling yourself, Deerey. Anyone posting at a tangent to yourself, Heath, 64 etc isn’t always likely to be engaged reasonably in a detailed and robust manner but is potentially setting themselves up for the type of outraged ‘stop, stop, stop ‘ nonsense that I called out …. and then the accusations start. I have never told anyone in my years of intermittent posting to stop presenting their case and I have enjoyed … sometimes with you … some fairly deep and searching exchanges. But recently … and especially on certain topics… it’s just not like that. I’m not that bothered …. although we all like to be listened to and respected … but I do think that I’m a reasonable bloke and express myself clearly but politely. So now, as I ‘do one’,there will be a reduction in the potential for debate and respectful difference. The pitifully small number of interested posters drops again and you have the consolation that the level of agreement is strengthened. I think it’s sad. You don’t think it’s true.

[Just Iron]

Well guys .. if I’m compared to Bucks then, for you, I guess you’ve found the ultimate satisfactory dig. But its true in one respect. Its thankless making a contribution that might challenge your thinking because you start to ‘strut’ over your territory and flow free with the insults. That’s why Bucks ‘did one’ ,Heath.. and why you’ve also got your weasely way with me. Sidey sits pretty well with you on many topics but has been unbelievably patient and committed to offering a more nuanced approach on this topic. His reward? ‘Stop this! Stop that!’ In other words ..’ You dont see it like ME so shut the hell up!How dare you come on OUR board and have a different opinion.’ And also accused of supporting mass murder and Genocide as a throw away. Enjoy your little agreement club. I’ve always advocated for respectful dialogue amongst healthy debate but it ain’t available here .. certainly not on this subject .. so I’m happy to comply with Heath’s diktat and ‘do one.’

[Just Iron]

Heath ..’stop this’ and ‘stop that’ !! How about you stop giving orders and being so full of your opinionated self and start making some reasoned contributions without simply denigrating Sideys unbelievably patient efforts to present am alternative perspective.
Your ‘gloomy prediction’ about Sidey getting what he doesn’t want … the destruction of Israel … seems to me to be the giveaway to what YOU would like to see. Ideologically bound … no real interest in the historical realities.. totally oblivious to the inconsistencies of your position. Now I remember why I find it a total waste of time making contributions on this topic.

[Author]

Posts