[Bucksiron]

No, NI, it is not a “lie”. The abuse Wharton took on this board was absolutely disgraceful. How or why he tolerated it was beyond me at the time. Swann refused to tolerate it and whatever anyone’s views on Swann might be he was absolutely right to do so.

[Bucksiron]

No. Land that GP is on was prime retail when Swann took over but bricks and mortar retailing has crashed since then, especially over the past 12 months due to covid, which has accelerated the move to online shopping.

People also have to take into account the tax implications. As far as I understand it the sale of land is subject to CGT but becomes much more complicated when development land is concerned. On a deal of this size, especially, HMRC is likely to be very interested in the valuation used.

Swann will have good tax advisers but that is perfectly legal and sensible for any business transaction. People might not be happy about what’s happened but that doesn’t mean there’s a smoking gun anywhere.

[Bucksiron]

Heavens, I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve had insults hurled in my direction by you, Pat, to say nothing of the numerous accusations of ‘lying’ you’ve made when all that I’ve offered is an opinion. Now here you are at it again. My recollection is that you were moaning and groaning about pies, either running out or being cold, or maybe it was pasties, I can’t remember, frankly, but it was certainly food-related.

Deerey, anyone who comes on this board and disagrees with the moaners and groaners, as I do, is given a torrid time. It’s the same for UTI. So please spare me the victim card. If and when you’re perfect, fine, I’ll take personal criticism from you.

As for people not having moaned and groaned loud enough, that would be a sound argument if the moaning and groaning had been constructive. But it hasn’t. It’s been no different from when Wharton was the owner, except people have had to watch their language more carefully because Swann won’t accept the abusive comments that were hurled at Wharton.

Swann needs to understand that supporters want him to succeed. This means appointing a decent manager and giving that manager the free rein needed to bring in the players he wants. Perhaps I’m wrong but this certainly doesn’t appear to have been the case up to now.

Swann is far more likely to listen to constructive argument about the things that really matter than he is to moaning and groaning about pies, pasties, the club restaurant or anything else that too many of here have bleated on about for the past few years. Of course these things need to be sorted and it’s perfectly reasonable to raise them, but all too often they’ve just been used as an excuse to beat Swann over the head with. It was exactly the same with Wharton so why should anyone think it would be any different under a new owner?!

[Bucksiron]

There is a danger of belligerence taking over here, which would not help the club. We have to live with Swann as chairman and owner whether people like it or not and a bunch of angry fans descending on GP demanding his head is the last thing the club needs.

MK Iron put it very well. Swann needs to understand the depth of feeling we have for the club, that supporters are very unhappy with the current situation and that as owner and chairman it’s his responsibility to sort it out.

I believe it is important that the fans leave Swann in no doubt about the depth of feeling, but people should still take note of what UTI is saying. It won’t help the club one bit if this turns into a “Swann out” vendetta.

[Bucksiron]

A pretty pathetic and cheap shot, Pat. This isn’t and never has been about who is right and who is wrong and if that’s all you care about then I suggest you think again. I’m not going to apologise for one moment for backing the chairman against the ridiculous arguments you used to come out with about bloody pies.

Moaning and groaning achieves nothing. If it did we wouldn’t be in the mess we are now. Swann’s far more likely to take notice of those supporters who were behind him but whose support he no longer has; and there are a lot more in that category than yours, including me.

[Bucksiron]

Completely agree, MK, and in any event Swann is unlikely to be going anywhere whatever supporters might want.

The point is that Swann needs to understand the passion behind the club and that supporters do care. I’ve always backed him 100% but right now even I can’t support him. He needs to win back the trust of supporters, which does matter even for a small club.

[Bucksiron]

The point is that he would have to care, Cass. Whatever he might claim in public the facts would be very clear. The problem at the moment is that he can brush comments aside because the evidence behind them is fragmented and subjective. This all makes it far too easy for him to sidestep the issues.

The benefit of the poll is that it’s hard evidence. I’m happy to do the formal statistical analysis but I can already tell you — from the numbers that are there — that the results cannot be argued with. Swann won’t like them but he wouldn’t be able to brush them aside. In support of what Ferrite is saying this also focuses everything on Swann himself.

What supporters think and feel does matter, even in a small club like ours.

[Bucksiron]

I completely agree, but we have to be realistic and pragmatic about what we can do about things. Moaning and groaning might make people feel better but in reality will achieve nothing.

Swann isn’t going anywhere, in which case we have to do whatever we can to hold him to account while he’s in charge. Protests are all fine but not everyone can get involved or necessarily wants to do so.

What we can do is let the media know how we feel and the most organised and best way to do this will be by releasing the results of the poll carried out on this board. The numbers who have voted make this a statistically significant sample and the fact it’s from the supporter base makes it highly representative. Whatever Swann might try to do to rubbish the findings the fact is he would not be able to do so with any validity.

As things stand only 13% of fans currently support Peter Swann as chairman, 63% do not support him and 24% are undecided. These are damning numbers.

In addition, almost half of our fans (47%) say they will not be returning to watch the club when restrictions are lifted. Given the importance of attendances for lower league clubs these are worrying numbers for any chairman, even if they claim otherwise.

I suggest that SST releases these percentages to the local media, including Humberside. They are factual and conclusive. I also suggest that the poll be repeated, say, every three months from now on as a way of measuring supporters’ views on Swann’s running of the club. If things improve then this would be reflected in the findings, otherwise they will continue to be bad.

Either way Peter Swann will have a very clear view of how we, the supporters really feel about what he is doing; and most importantly, in a way that he wouldn’t be able to argue with no matter how hard he might try to do so.

[Bucksiron]

The land will almost certainly be less valuable than it was because bricks and mortar retailers are struggling and GP is a prime retail site. As a football ground it will have little value. This is why Swann wanted to move grounds in the first place because that would have enabled him to maximise the value of the GP land, which made a lot of sense.

As for Swann now owning the land, as always there are pros and cons on all sides. At the moment it’s impossible to say whether this is a good or a bad thing for the club because that will ultimately depend on what Swann wants to do with the land and the club.

I personally feel bitterly disappointed by the way things have gone over the past few years and can fully understand why people would like Swann to go. However, one thing that people should bear in mind is that if Swann was only interested in making money from the club he’d have done so a long time ago. So, anyone who believes this latest move is a cynical ploy is kidding themselves.

It could work out very well for the club. We’ll just have to wait and see.

[Bucksiron]

I’m not entirely sure what anyone expected Swann to say. The fact is he tells things as he sees them, which isn’t great from a PR perspective but if nothing else is pretty honest.

I can’t disagree with anyone who is unhappy with his response to the old supporter. Again from a PR perspective it’s the last thing he should be saying. At the same time the guy is human and must be as fed-up with things as everybody else.

Of course the buck stops with him, but in the current circumstances I don’t think anyone can blame him about using the covid situation. Given his business he’ll have taken a massive hit over the past 12 months; and while he’s clearly far more fortunate than many he will still have had a difficult time.

I strongly suspect he’s found running the club far more difficult than he imagined. While I do understand why many are very unhappy with him — I’m not exactly chuffed to bits with how things are — I’m not convinced anyone else could do any better.

[Bucksiron]

I must have missed something, Ferrite, which of course is entirely possible, because the numbers you provided show a 10% increase in L1 vs the last promotion.

Otherwise the comments from the usual suspects are the usual attacks. Yawn.

[Bucksiron]

Well I can correct you on that, alcazar. I’ve always supported Swann but also made it very clear that he has to carry the can for the problems the club has faced and is facing. I’ve also made it very clear that there are many areas where Swann deserves criticism.

The point I’ve always tried to emphasise, however, is that some supporters are never happy and certainly give the impression they never will be. Indeed, many of these same fans were just as critical of Wharton, whom I also supported when he was in charge of the club, yet some who did so now appear miraculously to view him through rose-tinted spectacles.

[Bucksiron]

Of course gates improve when a club is challenging for promotion. Durr! The point is that gates are going to be significantly higher challenging for promotion from L1 than from L2. It’s hardly rocket science, is it.

As for “running a shop”, if a customer offered constructive criticism then, yes, I’d listen to it, but if a customer just complained for the sake of it I’d very much support my staff and tell the customer not to come back again.

The fact is that some people will never be happy no matter how good the service might be.

[Bucksiron]

“Anyone who thinks it’s just about league position is a fool.”

I completely agree, Deerey, but so too is anyone who thinks that gates will improve without promotion. All football fans are known to be fickle but the moaning and groaning on this board — even when we were pushing for promotion from L1 — was unbelievable.

If anyone has enjoyed life back in the basement division then do please speak up.

[Bucksiron]

How many times have we heard complaints from supporters about the style of football we’ve played over the past few years. Yet how many would happily swap where we were under Alexander with where we are now — a lot, I suspect. Yet exactly the same complaints were every bit as loud and clear then as they are now.

Cox has so far proved himself adept at taking a disjointed squad and doing something with it, especially given the injuries he’s also had to deal with. I’m just hoping that we can continue to build in confidence for the rest of this season and progress towards challenging for a play-off place next season.

Frankly, while we’d all love to see the team playing attractive football all the time, I’ll take results over entertainment if that means we can get back to challenging for the play-offs in League One. At the moment that still feels some way off.

[Bucksiron]

I don’t think Swann leaving will solve anything, BRI. That’s also why Swann retains my support, Ferrite. Be careful what you wish for.

Plenty of football club owners find themselves in similar situations. Running a football club is incredibly hard and even the best run clubs find themselves having problems. Look at Liverpool — the injuries they’ve had this season have cost them dearly even with the size and quality of squad they have. At the same time many Man Utd supporters want a different manager even though they’re top of the league — at least that’s what the big Man Utd fan that I know keeps telling me.

I don’t agree with a lot of things Swann’s done, especially his interference with transfers and the managerial merry-go-round. But I can’t think of a single manager the supporters weren’t glad to see the back of, mainly because of complaints around the “entertainment” on offer. Well, what I wouldn’t give to have a lack of entertainment right now to get a few decent results under our belts.

As for excuses, Cliff, I think Swann’s been pretty honest about accepting responsibility for the club’s plight; and of course covid’s had a massive impact, especially given much of his wealth is tied-up in hospitality.

[Bucksiron]

I very rarely post on this site now but given where things stand feel it is right to do so before Swann’s talk this evening.

I always backed Wharton while he was the owner and have been one of the few to back Swann 100% since he arrived. I will continue to back him but must say the following:

1. I feel completely let down by what’s happening at the club. The managerial merry-go-round has been a disaster and contributed enormously to where we are now, for which Swann has to accept 100% responsibility.

2. Swann cannot blame supporters for venting their feelings. I’ve disagreed with the moaners and groaners on numerous occasions but understand their frustrations completely — I feel them myself. Supporters deserve to know that Swann remains 100% committed to the club and will continue to provide the financial support necessary for it to survive, with the immediate priority to remain in the league.

3. We know that covid has changed everything and made financial planning extremely difficult but supporters deserve to know that Swann has a plan to turn the club’s fortunes around.

I’ve never agreed with those who knock the club in the past and I won’t be starting now. Finding problems is the easiest thing in the world — it’s solving them that’s difficult; and while I understand supporters’ feelings I also appreciate it won’t be easy for Swann, especially at the moment.

I do, therefore, remain 100% in support of the club and the owner. He needs to learn from past mistakes and do everything possible not to repeat them. In the meantime he must provide the resources necessary to get us out of the appalling situation we find ourselves in.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Ironlinc

[Bucksiron]

It’s the same old, same old. Everyone who voted Brexit is a racist and anyone who voted for the Tories is either a nasty, thieving b*stard or was brainwashed by the media. Pointless even attempting to have a sensible discussion, quite frankly.

As for the benefits of leaving the EU, if people can’t or refuse to see any of the benefits then they need to take the blinkers off and look a little harder. For instance, Ferrite, you’re hardly an example of a typical Brit given that you spend a great deal of time in Italy. In fact I believe you might even live there. To say you might therefore be biased would be something of an understatement.

Then we have the usual self-righteous nonsense from the likes of Gurnelista about racism despite never once getting a peep out of him about anti-Semitism. Why might that be, one wonders. It’s also interesting that you appear to have strong Spanish roots, Gurny. Absolutely nothing whatever wrong with that but it does suggest you might also have an element of bias in your opinions.

Regarding the economic disaster that leaving the EU is, apparently, about to cause our cat has more idea about economics than those on here making such claims. The EU needs the UK every bit as much, if not more than we need them. There might not be a deal but if there isn’t it will be down to them every bit as much as it will be to us; and I still wouldn’t be at all surprised if there is one. That is how the EU works.

[Bucksiron]

Football can play a big role in delivering the anti-racism message and must do so, but ‘Taking the knee’ needs to stop. The problem is the football authorities are too weak to take a lead on this.

Gurnelista, thank you for confirming my point. Your last post is, once again, pure dogma. Nothing you say can ever be questioned. Only a complete fool or total bigot would claim there are no benefits to leaving the EU and if you need me to spell these out then I suggest you’re an even bigger fool than even I imagined.

There are, of course, also downsides but given how the world was supposed to end if we voted for Brexit there can’t have been many who were unaware of them at the time of the referendum. That blows another hole in any argument over the media because the biggest and most influential player of all — the BBC — was very much on the side of remain. I see you conveniently ignored them, Gurnelista, which is strange given your apparent expertise on this matter.

My experience of Brexit was the exact opposite of yours, Cass — I don’t know anyone who voted for it on the basis of immigration. In fact the complete opposite because everyone I know recognised the benefits of immigration. The major issue I came across was the move by Europe towards a federal state controlled by unelected bureaucrats. Politicians are bad enough but at least we can vote them out.

Finally, it’s worth saying that Merkel is coming under a great deal of pressure in Germany to roll out the vaccine, which she’s refusing to do until it’s been approved by the EU. There’s an irony if ever there was one.

[Bucksiron]

I hardly ever come on this board now and this thread reveals why. Whatever people’s views might be they deserve to be heard and respected, but that rarely happens on here.

The main problem I have with ‘the knee’ is, first, that BLM is a political organisation and whether you agree with BLM’s views or not the football authorities should never have associated the game with ‘Black Lives Matter’. They’ve now put this right but it should never have happened in the first place. The second reason is that after a while all these gestures become routine and instead of reinforcing a message actually begin to diminish it.

As for the EU, Gurnelista’s comment is a classic example of pure dogma. What people such as Gurnelista refuse to accept is that the remain camp used tactics every bit as bad as the leave campaign and couldn’t win the argument even with the entire Government propaganda machine behind it. The vast majority of remainers accepted their argument was well and truly lost with the result of the last election, yet ideologs such as Gurnelista still maintain everything is down to the media and some mystical power.

Of course there are problems associated with leaving the EU but, again, people such as Gurnelista refuse to accept there will also be a lot of benefits. Failure to accept this reveals, at best, complete ignorance or, at worst, a complete lack of respect for anyone else’s views and opinions. The only person Gurnelista believes to be right is himself.

[Bucksiron]

Well someone has lost their marbles. I almost fell off my chair laughing when I looked at the sponsor’s website. Almost the first person I came across was Prince Charles followed by the Queen.

So much for the principles of those who run this site. The hypocrisy is unbelievable while I can only assume the sponsor hasn’t looked very carefully at the non-football side of this board.

Just waiting for Gurnelista or Fans to tell us how much they love our Royal Family. I’m actually looking for a new kitchen so will give these guys a call. Who says PR doesn’t work?

[Author]

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