Your Grand National Fancy Is?

Iron Bru Forums Non Football Your Grand National Fancy Is?

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  • #283885
    Rene ArtoisRene Artois
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    Are you having a dabble?
    What are you having?

    I’ve done Panda Boy ew.

    #283895
    fans6464
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    2 dead 3 badly injured for your pleasure

    #283899
    Rene ArtoisRene Artois
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    None born and pampered without racing.

    #283900
    Rene ArtoisRene Artois
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    2 dead 3 badly injured for your pleasure

    13 horses euthanised over the last 20 years either during / after the race or in the days or weeks after the race due to their injuries.

    #283901
    Rene ArtoisRene Artois
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    27 F1 drivers died between 1960 & 1980 either in practice or races.

    Life is dangerous.
    It wouldn’t be worth living if it wasn’t.

    #283902
    SideriteSiderite
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    F1 is a lot safer now though. Also, F1 drivers have a lot more consent in putting themselves at risk than horses. I am not saying this means horse racing needs to be shunned, but I am not convinced by that argument.

    #283903
    Rene ArtoisRene Artois
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    2 dead 3 badly injured for your pleasure

    13 horses euthanised over the last 20 years either during / after the race or in the days or weeks after the race due to their injuries.

    37 pro boxers have died over the same 20 year period.

    #283904
    Rene ArtoisRene Artois
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    86 deaths from nut allergies in uk from 1992-2002.

    A weighted 20 year number of deaths from nuts of 58 people.

    #283906
    Rene ArtoisRene Artois
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    The elite & money men have insured that this event has continued for the past 184 years… I can’t see it ending anytime soon?

    #283913
    fans6464
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    Some bizarre equivalents there.
    It should be banned deliberately putting animals in harms way is a crime

    #283914
    billpuntonsghostbillpuntonsghost
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    Over the years your view of the Grand National has been clearly stated ,Fans64.
    You must have a passionate view of the killing of unborn babies in the womb as well?
    Your last statement,” It should be banned deliberately putting animals in harms way is a crime” could be used for the unborn,which would be,” It should be banned deliberately putting the unborn in harms way is a crime?

    #283920
    fans6464
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    Get back to me when someone saddles up a foetus and attempts to jump Beechers brook

    #283922
    Rene ArtoisRene Artois
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    Some bizarre equivalents there.
    It should be banned deliberately putting animals in harms way is a crime

    Are you vegan or vegetarian?

    #283930
    NorthumbironNorthumbiron
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    #283940
    Iron-aweIron-awe
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    Mrs Awe cashed into today backing the winner with a £10 each way bet returning £104.

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    #283942
    billpuntonsghostbillpuntonsghost
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    Fans64- Paul Townend was that former “foetus” ( unborn baby). Thankfully he wasn’t killed in the womb.

    #283945
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Pretty fair challenge there from BPG. A handful of horses accidentally killed or injured annually in the UK, 64 … over 200,000 unborn humans deliberately killed. Hard to see this as anything but ideological preference on your part.

    #283949
    Rene ArtoisRene Artois
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    No horses were killed in the ‘big race’ yesterday:

    “ were some unseated riders and a number of competitors who left the race, or ‘pulled up’ throughout, no horses have died as a result of this year’s Grand National, Manchester Evening News reports. It was announced live after the race that The Jockey Club did say that all the horses ‘got back okay’, and that there were ‘no concerns bar Mac Tottie, who was dismounted immediately after being pulled up and taken to the horse ambulance”

    #283950
    SideriteSiderite
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    I think difference in sentience between a horse and a fetus is important for this analogy, as indeed the woman and fetus for the issue. Especially when we see the horror stories coming from the US.

    #283953
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    I think difference in sentience between a horse and a fetus is important for this analogy, as indeed the woman and fetus for the issue. Especially when we see the horror stories coming from the US.

    I don’t. For example abortion up to birth for ‘disabled.’ Poor old Downs syndromes! 1 million horror stories per year from the US … unless of course our perspective is that only women and horses are relevant in the equation and being sucked to pieces and incinerated ain’t horrific.

    #283954
    SideriteSiderite
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    The former are not the norm, and are not excuses for women to risk death as it is now in some States due to religious control, and no I don’t think a fetus has the same sentience as a woman. I think it’s ideological bias that inclines to otherwise. The rest is emotional manipulation, in my opinion.

    #283982
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Any woman at risk of death in childbirth in the States can get an abortion. The point about sentience was initially re horses to be fair although i do believe that the sentience of the unborn, especially in the later stages, is conveniently underplayed. You are correct regarding emotions. If I could influence the powers that be to feel the horror that some 40 million unborn are destroyed worldwide, often in some degree of agony, in the womb each year then I would gladly do it. If it is termed manipulation then I think there is a good case for having our emotions recalibrated in the face of the scale of such horror.

    #283983
    SideriteSiderite
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    Except some horror stories are suggesting otherwise regarding risk to life.

    Yes, and horses have more sentience than a less than 20 week old fetus, which make up the vast majority of abortions. The majority of late stage abortions are because the woman is at risk, and this is acceptable at this stage, in my opinion. So to use extreme outliers as a case against the majority seems emotional to me, as does talk of suffering for the majority of fetuses where sentience is not evident. Ultimately, I don’t think it’s some black and white case. Abortions shouldn’t be taken lightly, but the alternative to legal abortions are worse in that it leads to female control, whose rights trump that of something non-sentient, in my opinion.

    Anyway, I realise this is a sensitive topic and it’s drifted off topic, so I will just leave it as I agree to disagree.

    #283985
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Yes. We pretty well came to the same stand off previously, Sidey. When does the Euthenasia debate kick in? :)

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    #283992
    GurnelistaGurnelista
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    The main issue here is the woman’s right to choose v religious patriarchs’ wish to impose their views on women; views based on pre-modern ideas about the creation of life.

    The point is this. If abortion were banned, women would still seek it out, and the practice would be driven underground, just as it was in the past, with (usually poor) women enduring some of the most dangerous and barbaric medical practices imaginable, at the hands of charlatans and snake oil salespeople. Once again, it would become a cottage industry practised in back streets by the bad, mad and impecunious. Desirable? I don’t think so.

    But let’s be clear, there are still far too many unwanted pregnancies, and the key to preventing many of them is education and contraception. With better education in schools and families, not least in some of the most staunch, severe and fundamental religious communities where contraception and sex are still taboo, women can grow to be confident and educated to take decisions which prevent unwanted pregnancy.

    So, forget all the pompous piffle and frankly hypocritical comments about “ideological preference” from the ideologically motivated religious lobby. Instead, JI and others should consider how much their views are shared with fundamentalists of all kinds, especially Muslims, when it comes to basic issues around women’s rights, human rights, democracy and the death penalty. They’d be quite at home in Saudi Arabia; in fact I believe there are some cheap deals to Mecca, currently.

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    #283998
    billpuntonsghostbillpuntonsghost
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    Your Enlightenment worldview only leads to chaos and misery. The dominant Christian worldview that has given us such peace and prosperity is being replaced by the secular humanist worldview. The consequences are dire unless there is a Spiritual revival and belief in the truth of Biblical revelation.

    #283999
    SideriteSiderite
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    Aye, the world was a whole bed of roses before the enlightenment. St Bartholomew’s Day Massacre, Albigensian Crusade, witch hunts, low life expectancy. Those were the days.

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    #284000
    SideriteSiderite
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    Yes. We pretty well came to the same stand off previously, Sidey. When does the Euthenasia debate kick in? :)

    To be honest, I don’t think our opinions were that far apart on euthanasia and would probably be less so now, as my opinion has only soured further with Canada’s experiments with it.

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    #284001
    Deereyme66Deereyme66
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    ‘The consequences are dire unless there is a Spiritual revival and belief in the truth of Biblical revelation.’

    There’s no evidence to suggest this would be the case. Just more paranoia and convenient assumptions

    #284002
    fans6464
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    Paul Townsend didn’t have a saddle strapped to his back BPG,unlike the poor horse,all for that other cruel sport,betting

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