What is a woman?

[billpuntonsghost]

The vocal “usual suspects” first.
Let’s see how many of them answer.

[Siderite]

Adult human female. Next

1 user thanked author for this post.

TwoWrights

[billpuntonsghost]

..can an adult human female have a penis?

[Siderite]

You are grasping for gotchas, but the answer above should have given you some clue as to my answer to that, as female specifically refers to the sex which produces ova.

[billpuntonsghost]

Can I put you down to be next Labour leader with you being so intelligent?😂

[billpuntonsghost]

…then again ,can I put you down to be the next Tory leader as well!😂

[Siderite]

Knowing what biological sex is should be a minimum for anyone in politics, like knowing the age of the Earth. Somehow it seems to baffle some in a mistaken belief it’s being kind. It isn’t so kind to the women who get told they’re bigoted for not sharing their spaces, which includes rape shelters, with men who say they’re women. It’s sheer entitlement.

This isn’t to say that dysphoric people shouldn’t be treated unsympathetically, but treating people with kid gloves over a belief isn’t going to work when there’s a conflict with reality.

1 user thanked author for this post.

TwoWrights

[Northumbiron]

“What is a woman?”

According to your magic book she’s a small part of a bloke’s rib.

So that would make the genome 44XY ie male.

So yes, if you believe that story Eve would have had a penis.

[Iron-awe]

Wow NI, that’s a great gotcha.

[billpuntonsghost]

Eddie Izzard- How can you vote for Labour when Starmer won’t even say “He is a man.”

[64]

A woman is whatever she wants to be.
God made man in his own image and also gave us free will,therefore we can be what we like.
The gotcha nature of gutter politics in such personal questions is exactly where bigots make themselves look stupid.Most of us are not qualified to know what is happening in the minds of transgender people and its ridiculous to try understand.I do know using vulnerable people to make a crass political point in Parliament is peak Tory caring

[Siderite]

billpuntonsghost wrote:

Eddie Izzard- How can you vote for Labour when Starmer won’t even say “He is a man.”

Because there are several issues relevant when making a decision besides just this.

[64]

I won’t be voting for Kier Starmer thankfully I don’t live in his constituency or Id have a problem so not relevant.

[Siderite]

64 wrote:

A woman is whatever she wants to be.
God made man in his own image and also gave us free will,therefore we can be what we like.
The gotcha nature of gutter politics in such personal questions is exactly where bigots make themselves look stupid.Most of us are not qualified to know what is happening in the minds of transgender people and its ridiculous to try understand.I do know using vulnerable people to make a crass political point in Parliament is peak Tory caring

This is a circular definition which does not make sense. The implications are problematic and sexist too. Eddie Izzard says he’s a woman because sometimes he feels he has a girl mode. In other words, he’s a woman because he has feminine stereotypes. This is reductive and sexist.

Not only this, allowing self-id creates problematic situations, because humans are a sexed species, just like every other mammal. Men and women require different health responses, there is disparity in sport which goes beyond just hormones, and women have had spaces of their own to avoid potential male violence. There is no evidence that transgender identified men pose less risk than any other man. Sexual crimes have risen by 11% in Scotland with gender neutral changing rooms, there are reports of girls skipping the restrooms in school to avoid boys, female rape and sexual assault victims are being made out to be bigoted for wanting female only staff to be with them when they are vulnerable. Some have implied it’s bigoted for lesbians to have an aversion to penis, where Stonewall hosted a workshop on how to overcome the ‘cotton ceiling’ so lesbians can consider dating transwomen.

I could think of many more conflicts of rights, but in all cases the only harm to transpeople through saying no are hurt feelings from being made out to not be their preferred gender identity. Meanwhile, the implications of saying yes is far more serious for women here.

I am all for treating others with equity and fairness, but that doesn’t mean every activist group’s demands are reasonable, and I don’t think the demands from transactivists are reasonable a lot of the time. There is no consideration to women, homosexuals or any others as to what they want. Worse, they make out it’s bigotry to focus on anything other than what they want, and any acquiescence is sacrilege.

Gender non-conformity is perfectly fine by me. However, gender non-conformity doesn’t make you the opposite sex. Man and woman are sexed terms, so no man can become a woman based on inner feelings. We’re no different to other mammals, and are a sexed species. It’s anti-scientific to suggest otherwise and making out men can become women, and vice versa, is only humouring people.

1 user thanked author for this post.

TwoWrights

[64]

“Sexual crimes have risen by 11% in Scotland with gender neutral changing rooms”,dog whistle bollocks,how many have been committed by transpeople? Also sexual crime is up in general not just changing rooms. Sexual crimes are running at record rates in all the UK not just Scotland
nobody is saying it’s easy and there are no easy solutions and psycological harm done to people being forced into binary solutions is not something any of us can possibly gauge and to just put it down to hurt feelings is ridiculous.
“There is no evidence that transgender identified men pose less risk than any other man”.
More dog whistling ,there’s no evidence that they pose a risk greater or equal too either. But you know that putting an idea in minds by how you word something creates an issue. Iam not surprised at the use of these tools though,it’s how opinion polls get rigged

It’s no point me pretending there are no practical difficulties and that I understand these people ,which is why I usually shy away from such a difficult area but I do know that we live in a world where it’s possible to accommodate people safely and it’s perfectly possible that the physical self does not match the mind.Greater minds than me will work through it but the hysteria around vulnerable people from so called Christians is sickening. It’s not new, people of my age will remember Vanessa the pianist in town .
Binary people judging things they have no idea about is like ,men telling women they cannot abort .

[TwoWrights]

billpuntonsghost wrote:

..can an adult human female have a penis?

No.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Siderite

[Siderite]

64 wrote:

“Sexual crimes have risen by 11% in Scotland with gender neutral changing rooms”,dog whistle bollocks,how many have been committed by transpeople? Also sexual crime is up in general not just changing rooms. Sexual crimes are running at record rates in all the UK not just Scotland
nobody is saying it’s easy and there are no easy solutions and psycological harm done to people being forced into binary solutions is not something any of us can possibly gauge and to just put it down to hurt feelings is ridiculous.
“There is no evidence that transgender identified men pose less risk than any other man”.
More dog whistling ,there’s no evidence that they pose a risk greater or equal too either. But you know that putting an idea in minds by how you word something creates an issue. Iam not surprised at the use of these tools though,it’s how opinion polls get rigged

It’s no point me pretending there are no practical difficulties and that I understand these people ,which is why I usually shy away from such a difficult area but I do know that we live in a world where it’s possible to accommodate people safely and it’s perfectly possible that the physical self does not match the mind.Greater minds than me will work through it but the hysteria around vulnerable people from so called Christians is sickening. It’s not new, people of my age will remember Vanessa the pianist in town .
Binary people judging things they have no idea about is like ,men telling women they cannot abort .

Why is it a dog whistle to say men pose a risk to women? How do you stop non-trans identified men from abusing women in their own spaces if you open them up to anyone male who says they’re a woman? It’s pretty obvious we can’t, since many revert to not being trans post-prison after their sentence. https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/anger-trans-inmates-revert-males-25840252. It’s clear self-id is not fit for purpose in protecting women from violent men. Frankly, it’s not women’s job to be a sponge for men deemed not manly enough to be in men’s spaces.

Again, why is it dog whistling to point out that transgender identified men pose as much risk to women as any other men? This whole movement is geared on rubbishing women’s fears of men, just like all other sexist MRA movements. You only have to look at the inmate stats to see that the offence rates for transwomen are similar to non-trans male counterparts. None of this is saying that all or the majority of transpeople are sex pests, but the fact is they are men and men pose a risk to women, regardless of their gender identities. It’s not anti-man to state that men pose a risk to women, it’s not anti-trans to say that transwomen pose a risk to women for the same reason as other men.

Your straw manning my argument as a means to pick on a minority is a common tactic which misses the point. Transpeople do face issues from society, but they do not from those who want to protect women’s rights, it’s from men. They do not have rights to stomp over women’s or gay rights because of their ‘inner feelings’. Women have a right to go to a rape crisis centre without men, they have a right to not be searched by men, they have a right to compete in sport without men. It’s not picking on a vulnerable minority to say this, nor is it to say that some members of minority groups are not angels.

[64]

You know full well that by mentioning transgender in this way you are dog whistling.Shame on you.
Straw manning lol,I don’t even know what that means

[Siderite]

Way to avoid the argument. It would be dog whistling if I was trying to imply that transwomen are all sex pests. I am not saying this, hence why your argument is a straw man.

[64]

LOl, you make the connection in minds by writing them together, you knw how this works and it’s a powerful tool is dog whistling.
Look how it convinced you Corbyn is antisemtite ,they accused people ner him constantly while saying that they know he isn’t.Nobody ever accused Corbyn just some who support him,you now constantly claim he’s antisemite, Dog whistle worked on you too

[Siderite]

Writing what together? Transwomen and men? Transwomen are male, so are therefore men. No dog whistling there. By saying men pose a risk to women? Given that sex based violence is predominantly male to female, there is nothing untoward here, I think. Unless you’re arguing that it’s wrong to call out male violence, like every other MRA.

[Northumbiron]

“……….and making out men can become women, and vice versa, is only humouring people.”

A bit like Dr Who then?

[64]

“Writing what together? ” trans people and sex offences,but you know that already.Ity was never in the conversation but you chucked it in like a grenade in order to ensure we think of them together .

[Siderite]

I was pointing out that men, as a whole, are a risk to women. This does not mean every man, or every male member of a subset of men, is a sex offender. It does mean that men should be treated as a risk, like we do for every male, regardless of their identity. A male doesn’t become magically not a risk because he says he identifies as a woman. Gender neutral spaces and self-id allow men to be in a position to put women at risk.

I was mentioning things like sexual offences, because that is relevant for why women do not feel safe from men, regardless of how they identify. Opening up their spaces to men puts them at risk, as the data suggests. If there was no risk of women being harmed, and sexual offences are a huge part of this, we’d have much less need for female spaces (changing rooms, toilets, crisis centres etc). That men, no matter their gender identity, cause a risk is why this issue needs to be taken seriously, not flippantly dismissed, as if women’s rights don’t matter compared to male feelings.

[64]

it would have been more accurate to say, “you’re less likely to be sexually abused by a trans person than member of the clergy”but you know how it works casting shade to demonise.

[Siderite]

Oh, I guess that makes it ok then. So long as some men are less likely than other men, we can just tear up safeguards.

Women are a victimised group too, by men (including from those who identify as women). Why is it progressive to ignore their concerns in favour of trans identified men? They have a lot more to lose from letting go of their spaces. But, who cares? Male feelings are at stake.

The idea that I am ‘demonising’ men because I point out they pose a risk to women is a right wing, MRA argument.

[64]

The law treats them as women, yet your bigoted viewpoint denies that so that you can make this sexual abuse argument I don’t know what MRA is. Your protecting woemen argument holds about a smuch water as claims people are worried about migrant crossing on safety grounds. Shadey and bogus

[Siderite]

What makes them a woman? Because they say they are? Ludicrous. The law says transgender people have a right to be treated fairly and can access some female spaces post-GRA. Transactivists claim trans women are women based on what they say, hence anyone saying they are a gender are that gender. This creates obvious issues, because sex is reality, and anyone arguing otherwise is bonkers. It affects women, who have been historically oppressed by men, but we have to pretend they’re more privileged than some men to avoid hurt feelings. It’s ridiculous.

Women have a right to single sexed spaces Why is it bigoted because some men have hurt feelings? Why isn’t it bigoted of you to not care about women being placed at greater risk? You have shown no care about that. The only risk of single sex spaces remaining are hurt feelings from trans identified men. The risk for women is an increase in sexual harassment and assault*, as figures show in gender neutral spaces (which allowing men in effectively does) and girls skipping toilets in school.

*None of this means I think every or the majority are sexual predators.

MRA = men’s rights activist/activism. Your arguments, as most transactivist arguments, sound exactly like theirs. Everything is about the ‘rights’ of males and women’s concerns are ‘dogwhistles’ and how it’s ‘demonising’ to acknowledge that men pose a risk to women. There’s no care or thought as to women, everything is ‘bigoted’ because men might have hurt feelings or be critiqued.

There’s a reason why suffragists saw single spaced toilets as a secondary goal of theirs. There’s a reason why Oxfam and Amnesty International campaign for women’s toilets in other countries (e.g. India). It’s because this makes women safer and reduces sexual crimes against them. It’s because men pose a risk to women, and the idea the risk dissipates the moment a man says they identify as a woman is laughable. No-one can seriously think that the risk to women can only come from men who identify as men, and that something as spurious as claimed identity changes this risk.

I am losing no sleep over being called a bigot for not caring about a lesser worry in an obvious conflict in rights claims. One of which is very spurious indeed.

[Author]

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