Shouldn’t be allowed and will cause much more bloodshed and insecurity and instability. Who’s going to stop Netanyahu and Co? Is the US going to continue saying ‘don’t do that mate’ and then proceed to let him do as he likes? Thank goodness the US election is Nov – dread to think what will happen if Trump gets in. Grim.
That’s been said before, plus what could a post election government look like? Not confident it would necessarily be that much more moderate and oppose something like this
There are more moderate parties. It wouldn’t likely signal an end to war, but the onus on that isn’t all on Israel. It could lead to a more sensible approach and no talk of forced migrations
Of course there are more moderate parties. The onus isn’t all on Israel to end the current conflict but it is chiefly on them to find a solution because Hamas certainly isn’t going to, as we all know. Agree with ‘forced migration’ – I assume that means you view ‘voluntary’ migration as a sham?
How can there be a solution with Hamas? They don’t want peace with Israel. Any peace will only be temporary and they are an outlet for Iranian meddling. There won’t be peace with them, no matter what Israel do. Israel could elect the most pacifist government ever and Hamas will still hate them, attack them and claim to be the victims of Israeli aggression.
There won’t be any long peace unless far right extremists on both sides make concessions and allow something to be brokered. That is possible and that’s what Hain was saying yesterday. Where there’s a will there’s a way, not without. I don’t subscribe to your ‘no matter what’ outlook. Bleak, IMO. There are equally plenty of Israeli’s in positions of power and influence that will continue to hate Palestinians and wish to get rid. You can say ‘claim to be the victims of Israeli aggression’, but whether you like it or not, they are. That’s indisputable, not a mere claim.
Hamas are not interested in making concessions. Their modus operandi is the destroy Israel and kill Jews. People can cover their heads over their ears, but any familiarity with their ideology tells you that. It’s like trying to convince Nazis that Jews, Roma etc aren’t subhuman. Unless there’s a change among Palestinian leadership and some in the culture it won’t change, no matter what Israel do. This isn’t Israel’s fault. The only way to oppose immoral actions from Israel isn’t this.
I have not claimed that Palestinians cannot be victims of Israeli aggression or that there aren’t issues from a very right wing Israeli government in areas like the West Bank. However, other emancipation movements (like South African black people) found outlets which weren’t homicidal maniacs who would only accept the destruction of Israel as their only palatable solution. Only a fool would then think that Jews would be safe in the ruins of Israel in this scenario. Israel should be doing a heck of a lot more to produce more amicable relations, but if a Nazi-like Islamist movement is going to attack them they have a right to defend themselves. I think the defence should be a lot more measured than it has been, but thinking Israel should make peace and live side by side with a bunch of Nazi-like religious fanatics is just not tenable or palatable. Unless there’s a huge mood change within Hamas, it won’t happen, and there’s little pressure for them to do so while apportion of blame is concentrated practically solely on Israel.
Also, I have read some plausible thoughts from people saying there could be a solution, but it’s likely to lie with someone like Abbas as a springboard for improvement. I think that has more room than anything with Hamas, and is what should be explored. Expecting anything with Hamas now is probably nothing but a busted flush. They are unlikely to change and I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect compromise with such people.
“I think the defence should be a lot more measured”.
But all the evidence is proving that it isn’t. The Israelis aren’t listening to anyone and they are intent on driving the Gazans out of Gaza. Been the intention all along.
Pointless talking about a solution. This war will go on and escalate.
Every person at strategic level within Hamas is highly unlikely to be killed so even if its removed some of these people their close associates and relatives will be around in some shape or form. This is constantly ignored or undressed by the Israeli government despite experts from the international community telling them that. Accepting that Hamas will never concede anything and will never deviate is unhealthily pessimistic IMO.
I don’t see how a fundamentalist cult who is convinced of its own cause can change and it certainly won’t change without pressure. It’s just not realistic, and I don’t see why Israel should be expected to bother after Oct 7th. It would be like trying to get Jews, Poles, Roma, gays to work with Nazis in the 30s. The fundamentalist mindset doesn’t work like the more liberally minded, where they consider others, so their main way forward will be how to benefit them so they can continue with their goal of destroying Israel.
I am not so defeatist. I am working my way into thinking that there can be a two state solution. I just don’t think it can be with Hamas; it seems unpalatable to me to expect Hamas to be worked with given their nature, motives and actions. It will have to be with Abbas or others who can bring something less extreme to the table.
Netanyahu doesn’t, Likud doesn’t, and I have said that before. That doesn’t change that there is an Islamist death cult in Gaza, which liberal Israelis could not work with. The people of Kibbutz were generally liberal and pro-cooperation with Palestinians. Hamas deemed them scum worthy of death.
Netanyahu doesn’t, Likud doesn’t, and I have said that before. That doesn’t change that there is an Islamist death cult in Gaza, which liberal Israelis could not work with. The people of Kibbutz were generally liberal and pro-cooperation with Palestinians. Hamas deemed them scum worthy of death.
I’m sure that the are plenty of Israeli’s that are happy with the deaths of Liberal Palestinians. If Hamas are defeated as a governing body there will still be remnants of it and individuals around plus all the new recruits as a result of Netanyahu’s actions. On both sides there are those that want the other dead and gone.
There are, but Israel has an easier way of removing the worst from power and Hamas are unlikely to change with any kind of peace agreement. More liberal Israelis won’t stand for their behaviour either and Hamas’s actions will potentially radicalise Israelis too. It’s a cycle, rather than it being one way. There needs to be something to break the dogmatic responses, from both sides, including in Palestine towards supporting a group like Hamas.
“Is the US going to continue saying ‘don’t do that mate’ and then proceed to let him do as he likes?”
15 days later and based on Michael Green’s (Shapps) responses this morning the UK Government is still trotting out the same they must follow international law argument, when they clearly aren’t.
It’s Ethnic cleansing, if you apply the duck test especially.
Netty Yahoo is an evil man, I said years ago on here the most dangerous man on the planet and he looks set to set the world alight to achieve his aim of slaughtering Muslims in and out out of their homes
Netanyahu’s not doing no wrong, he is acting like hyper-George W Bush after 9/11 with poorly thought out strikes wherever, without much thought for how to avoid casualties, plus no thoughts as to where civilians go after evacuating and strikes are launched there. However, it was a conflict not initiated by Netanyahu. Meanwhile Putin and the Ayatollah have been putting a lot more cogs in influencing and destabilising geopolitics for years, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that instability has risen during this time period. I’d say this makes them more dangerous. Their actions have also caused the deaths of thousands upon thousands, so the Gaza war doesn’t really top it, though it’s not a competition. If it wasn’t for Iranian or Russian meddling, we might have a more stable scene right now. I don’t see how tunnel focussing on Netanyahu as ‘worst guy ever’ is anything other than a bias towards our allies as being worst.
I’m afraid we set a very bad example with our bombing in Iraq an Afghanistan trying to create a “new world order”.
It doesn’t work, it has never worked, and now everyone is at it.
We live in dangerous times. The world needs peace.
I noticed that Netanyahu is enthusiastic about a Trump presidency.
Many were at it before. Iran had a war with Iraq, Russia had destroyed Chechnya before Iraq or Afghanistan. What’s changed is that USA is declining its influence and these regional powerhouses are expanding their influence and unsurprisingly they are worsening things, because there are things worse than the west. Now Iran can fill the vacuum, like it couldn’t before with sanctions, and use its proxies to spread its Islamist ideals and Russia can exert influence over what it sees as its regional influence to the detriment of the lives and sovereignty of those in it.
As for interventions working, it did with Kosovo, Timor Leste and Sierra Leone. Lack of intervention in Syria has allowed Iran and Russia to spread their influence and over 500,000 civilians dead.
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