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  • #174096

    Gurnelista
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    Conservatism as some know and like it is finished already. It’s socialism at last – and who’s complaining, after years of depriving the public of their social security, the welfare state, health and social services?

    Tragically, the cuts imposed on the NHS have clearly cost many lives, and will cost even more, while the current economic problems are an obvious consequence of weapons grade ‘free market’ ideology where employment rights, human rights & collective bargaining have been completely demonised by the right-wing press, and resulted in people living hand-to-mouth, with little or no savings or social protection.

    And now before us, we witness a desperate government frantically spending, borrowing, spending even more, paying wages to prop up the public sector, offering mortgage holidays and help for renters. We even have an army of ‘do-gooders’ is volunteering to look after you and your poor old mum! Who will be turning any of this away, now that the boot’s on the other foot?

    The more the Tories and their mates are in trouble, the more they resort to socialism. It’s just a pity it took a crisis of this magnitude to wake people up to how much people want and need public services and protection, services informed by experts, not self-interested political dinosaurs in Downing and Fleet St.

    In fact it’s hard to see how there’s any going back to old Tory ways of smashing welfare, and setting fire to public services in the name of free markets, and rightly so.

    Yes, Toryism is finished. But, here’s an idea, maybe they could paint the passports blue, so we can do things we can’t do now, or maybe if we’re abroad we could use another EU embassy for protection/information/assistance, etc. Oh no, hang on…

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    #174097

    Iron-awe
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    Well said that man, the Kipper is flapping about like a fish out of water, totally out of his comfort zone of bluster and bullshit, his late locking down of the country will cost thousands of lives, complete idiot.

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    #174101

    Heath
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    He was completely out of his depth on last night’s press conference making random statements about testing and research by Oxford University. The health experts were frequently correcting the false statements coming out of his blabbering gob.

    And before I’m accused of bias, he was shown up again tonight by another assured performance by the novice Rishi Sunak.

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    #174109

    alcazar
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    Quick, guys, let’s have Corbyn instead.

    HE could make those important decisions…oh…wait…

    And let’s never forget that we now have Boris entirely because of the lies, underhand tactics and duplicitous behaviour of Liebour, the Limp Ends, and some nasty Tory Remoaners.

    “You get the government you deserve”, so they say, and by heaven you lefties have!

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    #174111

    Xxx
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    Ok you no best again

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    #174115

    Northumbiron
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    This can’t be right.

    Back in December there were posters on here telling us that socialism doesn’t work and will never work.

    #174116

    Iron-awe
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    I’m not saying it’s not an unprecedented situation which is very difficult to manage but let’s get a few things straight. Johnson says he is being guided by the science which is fine up to a point but the science was telling him a fortnight ago that people had to keep two metres apart and yet he didn’t order the closure of non essential businesses straight away. The package of financial help should have been worked on the minute the virus began crossing borders from China, the length of time for extra medical equipment to be sourced and distributed was way too long in coming and you can see the unnecessary pressure that the NHS staff are struggling with as a result. Yes our PM has taken measures which I applaud but he has left it too long before he did and his messages have been mixed to say the least so let’s get things in some kind of perspective about what has been achieved so far. As for people like Ashley, Next and Wren, well you can see what happens when big companies bite off more than they can chew financially and put profit before their staff’s personal safety. Disgraceful behaviour but don’t hold your breath about them being prosecuted over health and safety breaches when all this thing is over and yes I stood outside and applauded the NHS staff tonight because they are bloody hero’s and a wonderful bunch of dedicated people who deserve all our support and certainly a lot more now and later on from our pedantic government.

    #174119

    bartonscorpion
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    Boris is doing a really first class job in very difficult circumstances, there has never been such a time like this in any of our life times, we get the same handful of people on here, yes the same people all of the time, in fact after one of them prints anything, the others either press the “Thank button” or just back up what is said, no matter how stupid it is, they still back it.

    Can you picture Corbyn in charge and what action the Labour party would do???, they are almost clueless and have just accepted that Boris is correct.

    Actually this support packages for workers, companies and self employed people normally take months to put together, the Tories have produced them in a matter of days!!!

    And Boris formed a team of medical experts to advise him on what action to take, or are we questioning his professional team??

    I think that the only real error has been that the UK has failed to close its borders to foreign visitors, many of whom can and will be carrying the virus from the likes of China, Ttaly, Spain and countries like France, this has been done by most countries, but we still leave our’s open, probably to please the do gooders and human rights brigades.

    The other mistake is not stopping Brits going on cruises and foreign holidays, or at least warn them that they must be responsible for their own return to the UK if they run into any transport problems, it makes me angry when you see them on TV moaning that the British Government should lay flights on for them to get back home, when they are fully aware of the situation well before they travel away for their holiday, they should think about return journey’s before going!!!!!!!!!

    #174121

    TwoWrights
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    For what my opinion is worth, the government are doing a decent job handling an awful situation. It doesn’t take a crisis for me to applaud the NHS, they’ve saved my life in the past, and recently saved my leg. Every single NHS worker I’ve met in the past few months, bar none, are a credit to their vocation.

    It’s our time.

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    #174128

    Pat O’Cake
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    I am no fan of Boris at all but I have to say he has handled the unprecedented situation very well in my opinion. He is not a Doctor or medical scientist, so he has to take advice from those that are qualified to give it and he is clearly doing his very best, the alternative of Corbyn and Abbott doesnt even bear thinking about, just imagine those two in charge right now!

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    #174129

    Pat O’Cake
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    We even have an army of ‘do-gooders’ is volunteering to look after you and your poor old mum!

    I think that is a very poor choice of words for a group of people willing to put their own
    health at risk to help the more vulnerable in society!

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    #174131

    Fifty Pence
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    Boris has done okay, but I have no doubt that Corbyn would’ve done better. Money would have been spent on the NHS leading up to this situation. Workers would be looked after. Diane Abbott is brilliant on topics she’s passionate about, a little embarrassing on topics she’s not – I think we would see the best of her in a situation like this.

    #174132

    BloodyRubbishIron
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    We even have an army of ‘do-gooders’ is volunteering to look after you and your poor old mum!

    I think that is a very poor choice of words for a group of people willing to put their own
    health at risk to help the more vulnerable in society!

    I think it was a satirical jibe at the right winger who sees issue with those who are liberally minded and work towards what they see as a better, fairer and kinder society.

    #174134

    Heath
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    We will probably find out over the 2-4 weeks how “great” a job he is doing.

    Seems like a lot of people are prepared too accept the daily lies about why NHS workers can’t have tests or be provided with the correct PPE, the lost emails about ventilators and the failure to order 5 weeks ago the 5000 ventilators from a UK specialist ventilator provider that were eventually sold to another country.

    #174135

    Heath
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    And for all of you stating that this situation is unprecedented, I agree with you!!

    But it was NOT unpredictable!!

    We’ve had a couple of warning virus lung condition incidents over the last few years. This could/should have led to better emergency planning and ensuring the NHS was provided with the equipment and PPE they need.

    Clap if it makes you feel better.

    #174137

    BloodyRubbishIron
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    Personally, I think the immediate response to the outbreak from the government has been mostly fine. However, decisions of the past have hurt. The mess up with the ventilator scheme from the EU, poor communications and things like a lack of hospital beds puts greater pressure on the health system than what’s desired.

    However, let the political questioning come later. For now, we need to ensure that we work with what we’ve got and we need to work with the government to ensure that the situation is as good as possible. The government has thankfully listened to scientific advice and, overall, are acting for the good of the country over their party (for once).

    It’ll be interesting to see what changes politically when this is over, whether people will be more understanding of the need for social safety nets and help for the vulnerable, but that is a topic which is for now in the future. All we can do is stay at home and minimise this turning into a complete crisis.

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    #174138

    Northumbiron
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    Quick, guys, let’s have Corbyn instead.

    HE could make those important decisions…oh…wait…

    Can you picture Corbyn in charge and what action the Labour party would do???, they are almost clueless and have just accepted that Boris is correct.

    Au contraire Alf Garnets –

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-52048213

    #174139

    Northumbiron
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    Wore wisdom from the departing one –

    https://www.facebook.com/747114325/posts/10158050889039326/

    #174146

    Iron-awe
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    Wore wisdom from the departing one –

    https://www.facebook.com/747114325/posts/10158050889039326/

    Link not working NI, has it got a bug?

    #174147

    Heath
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    Boris has tested positive. Will the whole Government and public health experts have to go into isolation?

    Send for Corbyn to rightfully lead the socialist Tory party!!!!

    #174156

    Bucksiron
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    Well, I can’t just stand by when this sort of stuff is being posted.

    I’m not going to comment on Boris other than to say any Government faced with an unprecedented crisis of this magnitude is going to have problems regardless of political colour. Regarding the OP let’s see if we can actually have a reasonable discussion without any personal attacks, which I very much hope will be possible.

    The facts are very simple. The Government’s had no choice but to do what it’s done from a fiscal perspective and the reasons are obvious. Second, can we afford what’s being done, for which the answer is an emphatic “no”, we can’t. Third, what does this mean looking forward? It means the country’s going to have huge debts, which our children will still be paying off in many years to come.

    From a political perspective I suggest those trying to make capital out of this should be extremely careful. Less than one year ago Gurnelista claimed “the Tories are finished” and we all know what then happened. Now Gurnelista is claiming “Toryism is finished” when it clearly is not. In fact the very opposite is going to be the most likely outcome.

    The ‘man/woman in the street’ understands what the Government is doing and why it’s doing it. As well as understanding this has absolutely nothing to do with politics they are also going to look unkindly on anyone who attempts to turn it into a political argument. I was impressed by Labour’s response and position on all of this until Jeremy Corbyn decided to speak. The suggestion that what’s happening now somehow ‘proves’ he was ‘right’ at the election will, I am certain, backfire on him very badly.

    What this will prove is the very opposite of what Corbyn is claiming and it will almost certainly come back to bite him and the Labour party very badly. When the dust has settled, or at least when it’s started to settle and we have to pay for all of this people will realise the true impact of spending on this scale; and it won’t be good, for anyone.

    In addition, had Labour won the election the country would now be well and truly bankrupt. Given the scale of what the Tory Government’s having to do to address the crisis, piling the sort of fiscal pressure Corbyn would have been embarking on wouldn’t just have seen the pound at parity with the dollar, but at a fraction of it. At the moment the country’s facing a tough time, but under Corbyn the country would now be well and truly broken.

    Finally, regarding comments about “setting fire to public services in the name of free markets” I have one very simple question. Where, exactly, do people think the money’s coming from to pay for what we’re now having to do. Yes, the BoE can print money but unless this is backed by a sound economy it soon becomes worthless and inflation sets in. It’s exactly what happened to Germany, which saw the rise of fascism, and it’s exactly what’s happened in Venezuela where it’s increased by what I believe to be over 50,000,000% over the past four years or so.

    This means the country has to borrow; and where does it have to borrow from — the open market. So just how would a socialist country cover these borrowing costs without resorting to open market economics? Just as important, how would it generate the revenue then required to pay for them? Remember, too, that had Corbyn been in Government now these would have already gone through the roof in terms of interest payments. In fact we might not even have been able to cover them.

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    #174157

    TwoWrights
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    Wore* wisdom from the departing one –

    https://www.facebook.com/747114325/posts/10158050889039326/

    * You’ve lived up there too long! 😜

    It’s our time.

    #174158

    Heath
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    Thanks for your response Bucks (no I don’t have a fever).

    Would be genuinely interested in your thoughts on whether a global pandemic was predictable and whether this and other Governments should have prepared for such an event with emergency plans.

    I accept this event is unprecedented but I have not heard any reference to a national emergency plan.

    Matt Hancock has it as well.

    #174161

    Northumbiron
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    I think it’s the same bug Alcy got.

    Re-posting from Facebook obviously doesn’t work. Basically it was a video of Jezza speaking to the House yesterday (who were observing the recommend social distancing).

    It’ll be on Hansard but the jist of it was “who are we relying on now, the refuse collector or the hedge fund manager?”

    The very workers who are on minimum wage or zero hours contracts are the ones who are keeping the country going through this lockdown.

    What need do we have for Raheem Stirling or HRH as we battle through the crisis?

    Despite Bucks’s Daily Mail rhetoric socialism is far from dead.

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    #174162

    Iron-awe
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    Chickens coming home to roost at Wren Kitchens now, beware the employer who tries to run before he can walk. Will be watching the Ashley Empire with interest, see he has apologised for his recent behaviour. Well done the Ashley PR man.

    #174163

    Heath
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    Surprised he didn’t tell the Newcastle players to come in for training “in the national interest”. They need it!

    #174164

    Heath
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    How long have these stocks of PPE been “on the way”? Are they being delivered by the Russian submarines in the English Channel?

    #174165

    THE-99%
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    Sadly only making it illegal for one person to own News organisations will stop the |Tories, rich people own them for REASON, look at how Get Corbyn went into overdrive when it looked like he was getting close to winning.The saddest thing of all is that the “liebour types” Alcy claims to despise were the ones who made much of the running. The BBC too, front page headlines if some nobody from outer Hebrides said Corbyn slightly disagreed with a Corbyn policy he was “slamming” Although we do see the same sensationalism in sport, .
    It was the fact that the ruling party were let off,that made in unpalatable.Can ui imagine if Corbyn had lied as much as Boris, ?

    #174170

    Fifty Pence
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    The electorate trusted Tories ahead of Labour to leave the EU. The electorate tend to trust Tories to run the country’s finances and business owners tend to trust Tories ahead of Labour. But the electorate tend to trust Labour over the Tories with the NHS. The electorate and workers tend to trust Labour with workers’ rights and pay.
    Last year, everything was about the EU, getting deals with other countries but not allowing foreigners in. This year, it’s about health, benefits and having the key workers (regardless of their nationality).
    This just shows how quick politics can change, if there was an election today – Labour may well win if it was fought over the NHS and key workers. But Toryism is not dead, and neither is socialism, it all depends on the situation. And is also down to the swing voters, not the dyed-in-the-wool Conservatives nor the dyed-in-the-wool Labours, making these arguments a little silly, as they tend to push the undecided away.

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    #174208

    bartonscorpion
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    Boris has done okay, but I have no doubt that Corbyn would’ve done better. Money would have been spent on the NHS leading up to this situation. Workers would be looked after. Diane Abbott is brilliant on topics she’s passionate about, a little embarrassing on topics she’s not – I think we would see the best of her in a situation like this.

    The only way that Diana Abbot could have come through this present crisis is for her to have caught a bout of the virus, and having to be isolated, that way she could not have made her usual mistakes, and the best place for sour face Corbyn is like he has taken, resign and try to find another leader, actually I am sorry to see him go, because he was a real asset to the Tories.

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