The shady world of the Tories

[Bucksiron]

In fact I have fantastic friends from all walks of life, including nurses and carers, Heath. Some friends are extremely wealthy and some extremely poor. My own grandmother was poor — she brought my mother up on her own after my grandfather died of cancer when mum was only 15. A farm labourer, she had little money, never owned a house, never owned a fridge and didn’t even have hot running water right up to the day she died, which wasn’t that long ago. She was my inspiration. I loved her to bits and we were incredibly close.

The greatest thing my grandmother taught me was to respect other people and their views, no matter who they are. Rich, poor, black, white, famous, nobody. The trouble with this board is that anyone who supports the Tories is immediately labelled. Racist, shady, greedy, selfish, scum, you name it. It couldn’t be further from the truth.

[Siderite]

Unfortunately that hasn’t been my experience with you, as I have been consistently demonised and misrepresented, so my interpretation is less positive.

I do not disagree with you on the last sentence, and agree that people have called all Tories such like in the past on here.

I know I am not perfect, and can react to what I see as provocation with giving as good as I get, but I do apologise for going too far with some retaliation. I don’t mind disagreement, but I do mind having my words twisted and being assumed to be villainous because I am to the left of Reagan.

I can be forthright in my views, but so can you and many others. One thing I try to do is separate the belief from the believer, so if I am saying this and that a belief is wrong, silly, questionable or whatever, I do not cast such judgement on others. Well meaning people can be drawn to (what I see as) dangerous or bad ideas through good intentions. I do draw the line at respecting some beliefs. I have no respect for fascism, Islamism or tankie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie) extremism and do not see why I should be friendly with that lot.

I disagree with Toryism, find a lot of it off putting in ideology, but I don’t right them off. Hell, my further left friends make out I am some sort of Tory, but that shows what that element of the left is like with how they view the Overton window.

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Just Iron

[Siderite]

And, because I suspect I will be misrepresented again, no, saying I find Toryism off putting (i.e. disagreeable) does not mean I think Tories are nasty. It just means I disagree with the stance of the party’s vision of the UK. Nothing more, and if that is unacceptable, learn to accept that people don’t think of your party as being what’s best for the UK.

We can respect other people without having to pretend their beliefs, political or religious, are what’s best (in our own opinion).

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Just Iron

[Bucksiron]

I don’t come on here to be liked or agreed with, Siderite. What you or anyone else on here thinks of me is of no importance whatever. That is entirely up to you.

What I thoroughly object to and do my best to counter is the way people on here hurl appalling insults, abuse and accusations at anyone on the right; and, no, I’m not talking about those with extreme or racial views, which I abhor as much as anyone. I’m talking about everyday Tory people, such as myself, who believe in the individuals’ rights, open markets and smaller state.

[Siderite]

I am not bothered if you come on to be liked. Just don’t complain when you antagonise some (and, no, that does not mean I think every bit of antagonism thrown your way is justified) through misrepresenting arguments. If you misrepresent my argument, and refuse to look at yourself in the mirror for possibilities of lack of clarity or through not getting my point, don’t complain when I get annoyed in return.

I will try not to get too annoyed, but you have yourself behaved in a manner unbecoming at times.

[Iron-awe]

If Buck’s took a look in the mirror occasionally he may learn some home truths, not holding my breath on that one though.

[Heath]

Hopefully more of this corruption will be uncovered.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/23/the-yacht-the-wedding-and-29m-michelle-mones-life-during-the-covid-crisis?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

[Deereyme66]

Shocking how many Tory friends and donors made huge profit from misery, delivering useless products in the process.

[Bucksiron]

I look in the mirror all the time and I’m very comfortable with what I see. I’ve always said the Tories are far from perfect and this is just one example of it.

What’s also shocking is how many people took advantage of the pandemic by claiming money to which they weren’t entitled, while in many cases continuing to earn money by working when saying they couldn’t and not paying a penny of it back again. Forget £29m, this is billions we’re talking about; and many of those people weren’t Tories.

But, hey, never let the facts get in the way of anything.

[Deereyme66]

‘Far from perfect’? What a joke! You make it sound like a few simple errors and misjudgements. Say it as it as man, blatant multiple corruption, and stop trying to deflect and ‘whatabout’. No one’s fooled by Tory lies and deception any more.

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Siderite

[Northumbiron]

Bucks you’re arguing just for the sake of being contrary. That’s at least three threads you’ve done it on today.

Get a grip man!

[Deereyme66]

New Tory Party slogan: ‘We’re not perfect you know!’

[Heath]

Gets better.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/24/michael-gove-under-pressure-explain-role-ppe-deals-michelle-mone?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Of course handing out millions of pound contracts to your mates and then denying everything is equivalent to an electrician changing a light bulb during lockdown.

[Heath]

And of course who was ultimately responsible for both acts. Good old Rishi.

[Heath]

And then there was eat out to spread it about.

[Iron-awe]

Narcissus looked at his reflection all the time too Buck’s, speaks volumes.

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TwoWrights

[Bucksiron]

Same old, same old. ‘The Guardian’ is to the left what ‘The Daily Mail’ is to right. It’s just blatant left-wing propaganda, which is absolutely fine so long as you see it for what it is.

I’m not going to defend the Tories and I have no time for Rishi or Hunt. Meanwhile, you lot support the bunch who wanted to put Corbyn into power while Heath attempts to dismiss my point with crass comments about “electricians changing a light bulb”. Well, in that case Heath an enormous number of light bulbs must have been changed to account for the eye watering sums given out by the taxpayer and for which everyone is now having to suffer.

The irony is that plenty of Labour supporters made a great deal of money out of the pandemic — and not just jobbing electricians. But as I said above, don’t let the facts get in the way of your self-righteous, “we support Labour and are therefore better than you” rhetoric.

[Siderite]

Personally, I don’t like the dismissals of papers because of editorial slants, regardless of the information entailed. This includes The Guardian and the Daily Mail, and especially when it’s not an opinion piece. It’s unthinking and not very critical of thinking. It wasn’t the Guardian that triggered this issue about Gove, for one. The nature of it is therefor not affected by the Guardian’s slant.

However, the latter is less reputable. I’d say the Telegraph is a better analogy for the Guardian.

[Bucksiron]

I agree, Siderite, and the key is to recognise the bias they have.

[Deereyme66]

‘The irony is that plenty of Labour supporters made a great deal of money out of the pandemic’

Blimey, deflecting on to Labour supporters now. What evidence do you have that this particular cohort of the public are worthy of scrutiny, as opposed to Tory government ministers who are culpable of corruption?

[Siderite]

Yep. I expect higher standards from governing ministers than I do ordinary supporters, no matter their affiliation. They are the ones who are running the country, after all.

[Heath]

I think he’s saying that all investigate journalism should be ignored, as should £29 million of public money salted away in an offshore account.

Right wing/left wing tittle tattle according to Bucks.

The difference is that the Mone/Gove/Rishi investigation is a specific story, compared to your very general accusation. Hence the light bulb example.

ALL corruption should be acted upon, but your argument seems to be they did it as well. Hardly reassuring that your Government has any control over taxpayers money is it?

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Siderite

[Northumbiron]

Labour, LibDems, Greens, Independents or whoever aren’t the ones in Government and making the decisions to squander millions on their mates’ bogus PPE Companies.

When we get a new government who do exactly the same then you can come back with your whataboutery.

In the meantime we should all be calling this out, and putting pressure on the government to remove Ms Mone from the HoL.

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TwoWrights, Heath, Iron-awe

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