Iron Bru › Forums › Non Football › The Moronic Nature of the Left
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December 28, 2022 at 12:09 pm #251315
It is your Government who have “inflicted the maximum harm and damage” over the past 12 years. The majority of this has been self inflicted driven by political dogma. The rest by doing whatever it takes to keep 50-60 right wing nut jobs in the party happy, and to appeal to Farage’s supporters.
Instead of bashing the unions, you should be embarrassed and hanging your head in shame to have voted and supported this shambles of a Government. Name one thing that is better since they came to power. Then have another go at that long list of Brexit benefits.
I suppose you will try to argue that this disgrace is the fault of the unions.
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December 28, 2022 at 1:35 pm #251321He’ll argue that “There’s nothing remotely unusual about 40% of doctors wanting to better themselves elsewhere”!
December 28, 2022 at 2:00 pm #251324He remotely has no ***king idea full stop.
December 28, 2022 at 3:56 pm #251332“…it’s the members who vote on decisions to strike”
Is that it? And there I was thinking you were going to tell me some earth-shattering fact. Well surprise, surprise, Deerey, I do understand how the unions work; and, no, I’m not at all against having them and couldn’t give a toss whether you believe me or not.
NI, where exactly did I say that the Tory Government doesn’t waste money? I didn’t, so please don’t suggest otherwise. It’s the state that’s particularly good at wasting money whether it’s being run by the Tories or Labour.
As for being naive or a complete idiot, IA, do you seriously believe the unions aren’t playing politics at the moment? If you don’t then you ARE either naive or a complete idiot. Hardly a personal attack given that anyone with any political nous would believe otherwise while there’s nothing inherently wrong in being naive.
Usual superciliousness. 🙂
December 28, 2022 at 6:03 pm #251340A union is a political thing,especially when governments are part of the negotiating, uts defacto a political dispute.
I even saw That Tory idiot Braverman in parliament accuse n opposition MP od playing politics while asking azquestion parliament FFS Playing politics seems to be their new attempt at shutting down debate ,negotiation,etc and in its wake goes our democracy piece by piece.Every thing wec havec today is because people fought for our rights.These unions
and protestors are all hated by Tories because they live in a bubble when all they told is unions and protestors are bad by rich people and Russian(tory pay lords),one even employed the ex chancellor as editor , who own and run our papers from tax havens.But that’s OK.Try and get a fair deal for workers and you,re a baron etcDecember 28, 2022 at 6:04 pm #251341The Irony being,the way to become a Baron or knight is give the Torues money
December 28, 2022 at 6:11 pm #251343“I’m sure Trump is Buck’s role model.”
I can’t stand the man.
“I should think NI does know what it means, him having worked in education as opposed to a grifters occupation!”
The way you lot throw the term ‘gaslighting’ around suggests none of you know what it actually means.
“Ah, but that makes me an evil public sector vampire. Sucking the life blood out of the treasury!”
Daft comment and, anyway, NI, I’m the evil one, apparently. What it does means, however, is that you have no clue how much money the public sector really is sucking out of the treasury.
“I see he still hasn’t answered my question from Thursday!”
Forgive me, NI, but strangely enough your question hasn’t been on the list of my top priorities over the past few days. TW seems to think that his questions should also be on top of my priority list. Why don’t you remind me what it was and I’ll do my best to answer it for you.
“I suppose you will try to argue that this disgrace is the fault of the unions.”
Heath, one of my best mates from school became a GP. He retired at 60 on a pension of £48,000 a year, married to a GP who retired at the same time on the same pension. That’s £96,000 a year, which requires a pension pot of around £2.5 million. I don’t know a single person with a pension pot remotely close to that.
I also know a consultant anaesthetist, in his fifties, who has gone part-time and is enjoying playing golf as well as a consultant gynaecologist, in her thirties, who is doing a four-day week. We also have consultants who are retiring early because of having to pay more tax on their pension pots of over £1m.
Despite all of this, despite the horrendous public sector pension liability and despite the billions being thrown at the NHS you want to to blame me for voting Tory. Well, I agree with you. The Tories have failed miserably to address any of these issues along with all the other billions wasted. Had they sorted this out all of the pay rises could now be being met.
December 28, 2022 at 6:30 pm #251346I haven’t asked you a question for months, I grew weary of waiting days and days for an answer, having asked the question several times, even though you’d post on the same thread after my question, FACT.
December 28, 2022 at 6:49 pm #251352Missed the point deliberately again. The article refers to 4 out of 10 junior doctors quitting if you bothered to read it. Trained in the UK at great cost and about to depart to work in Australia.
The strike is about the appalling working conditions nurses are having to cope with and pay that has been devalued over the last 12 years.
Who stopped training nurses – the Tories.
Who caused all the EU nurses to leave – the Tories.
Who has caused the shortage of nurses to do the work – the Tories.
Who kept wages low when inflation was low – the Tories.
Who is trying to keep wages low when inflation is high – the Tories.
Who has failed to collect money from fraudulent contracts for PPE – the Tories.
December 28, 2022 at 11:56 pm #251364“What it does means, however, is that you have no clue how much money the public sector really is sucking out of the treasury.”
Ooh err missus! It’s the old “I know it all and you know nothing” defence.
Dunno about the NHS but the teachers pension scheme opted out of SERPS years ago. So our State Pension is lower than that of employees who have been on PAYE for 35+ years.
So, anyway. Answer the question. Did you once apply for a public sector job and not get it?
Only reason I can think of for your hostility.
December 29, 2022 at 11:34 am #251394And here’s another thing. BI, your duplicity knows no bounds. Post-prawn, on the other board you’re frantically virtue-signalling your concern for mental health, depression, addiction, etc.
To your credit, you have commented before about your own problems. But despite this, many of your brother Tories would say to you ‘Snap out of it Bucksiron, control yourself! And if you don’t, it’s your own fault for being so feckless. Just take responsibility, show some effin’ backbone and get a grip, man!’
It’s the position of classic neo-liberalism. It claims you are responsible for your own actions, that you can ‘just say no’ to all sorts of ailments and temptations, whether they are in a bottle, a brothel or a betting shop. Something has made you like this, and what you’ve learned, you can unlearn. So get on with it, and take back control.
Yet, your own direct experience tells you that it’s more complicated, especially the causes.
Let’s look at this more closely. For example, have you ever reflected on the insecurity and anxiety caused by the removal of social safety nets and employee rights? Or, how it feels to go to work while also needing a foodbank or after begging for Universal Credit? Have you ever paused to consider the stress it causes when people suddenly can’t pay their mortgage or energy bills, and have to beg their supplier not to cut them off, or the way it makes them feel they can’t support their families at Xmas, and are only one payday from destitution?
The material effects are bad enough, but the psychological effects are incalculable.
Just ask any doctor.As you know very well, being in control of your own brain and behaviour isn’t always an option, so people need help. But now just consider the difficulty in obtaining it. The waiting times, the lack of resources, the staff leaving the caring professions – the nurses who have left the UK after Brexit, the junior doctors who are leaving because the conditions are so god-awful bad that it’s making them ill, and the carers who can’t afford to care because the pay is so low it’s better to be stacking shelves, or flippin’ burgers. Then, there’s the humiliation of discussing your pathetic finances in order to qualify for UC.
But, mental health is not just about financial and medical resources. Communities themselves bring important social benefits. Alas, they too have largely disappeared from many areas. Just witness the decimation of South Yorks when the mines closed without a proper exit plan of ‘what next?’. When the work went, so did the informal network of care and support through the proximity of friends, relatives and workmates. A community who would talk, lend a hand and chip in, when times got tough. And in its absence the results are there for all to see, particularly in high levels of crime, and of physical and mental illness.
So, when it comes to the contradiction between sound mental health and your support for small state, unbridled free markets, small pensions/benefits, and of course Brexit, you haven’t a leg to stand on, because the economic and social effects brought about by all these are literally driving you and many others mad, BI.
But there’s a solution. For happier, healthier communities, you just need to take responsibility, get a grip and never, ever, vote for the blue lot again.
December 29, 2022 at 5:37 pm #251439Brilliant post Gurny, considered, well thought out and on the money. Wait for the tripe, unconsidered and totally inappropriate response from the usual suspect.
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December 29, 2022 at 6:55 pm #251445“Missed the point deliberately again.”
On the contrary, Heath, but let me spell it out for you. According to the article, which I had read btw, poor pay and working conditions were among the main reasons for junior doctors wanting to leave. Yet in the same organisation, i.e. the NHS, GPs are retiring at 60 on massive pensions while consultants are going part-time, having a ball playing golf, or complaining because their million-pound-plus pension funds attract too much tax.
Any company run in the same way would have gone out of business years ago. But there are many more things wrong with the NHS than just this. Anyone can see that the NHS is broken. What’s more — and I’ve said this elsewhere — I completely agree that the Tories have to take a lot of responsibility for this, but it isn’t all down to them. The seeds of many problems were sown by Labour, especially GP contracts; and if anyone tries to claim otherwise then, in the immortal phrase used on this board so often, “they are lying”.
What is staring you and your left wing mates in the face is that the most popular destination for junior doctors according to the article is Australia; and does Australia have an NHS equivalent? No. But it hardly needs a genius to work out what your reaction would be if the UK attempted to go down the same path.
NI, I don’t for one moment think I know it all, though of course you’re happy to make such comments. Just like TW and his daft “supercilious” remarks. As for your question, I thought I had answered it by referring to my time as a gardener at Scunthorpe Hospital. Obviously I should have added that this was the closest I’ve ever come to working in the public sector and it was the only one I’ve ever applied for. Absolutely loved it.
Gurny, I do wonder what planet you’re living on. I don’t have any ‘problems’. You seem obsessed with the fact that I’ll happily talk about mental health. It’s people who won’t talk about mental health — or use it as a weapon, as you’ve done in the past — who have the problems.
Your comments are so way off that they’re ridiculous. Like most people I’ve had to cope with all sorts of stresses throughout my life and I know better than most the worry of whether the mortgage could be paid or not. Ask many people who have run businesses and they’ll tell you how tough it is. Far more businesses fail than succeed, but you conveniently forget about that. According to you people just make a lot of money, try to avoid taxes and exploit others. Well, Gurney, it doesn’t work like that in the real world, although you’ll always find exceptions; and, of course, it’s those bad ones who you’ll always claim are typical. You seriously don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
December 29, 2022 at 7:37 pm #251457“Missed the point deliberately again.”
On the contrary, Heath, but let me spell it out for you. According to the article, which I had read btw, poor pay and working conditions were among the main reasons for junior doctors wanting to leave. Yet in the same organisation, i.e. the NHS, GPs are retiring at 60 on massive pensions while consultants are going part-time, having a ball playing golf, or complaining because their million-pound-plus pension funds attract too much tax.
Any company run in the same way would have gone out of business years ago. But there are many more things wrong with the NHS than just this. Anyone can see that the NHS is broken. What’s more — and I’ve said this elsewhere — I completely agree that the Tories have to take a lot of responsibility for this, but it isn’t all down to them. The seeds of many problems were sown by Labour, especially GP contracts; and if anyone tries to claim otherwise then, in the immortal phrase used on this board so often, “they are lying”.
What is staring you and your left wing mates in the face is that the most popular destination for junior doctors according to the article is Australia; and does Australia have an NHS equivalent? No. But it hardly needs a genius to work out what your reaction would be if the UK attempted to go down the same path.
NI, I don’t for one moment think I know it all, though of course you’re happy to make such comments. Just like TW and his daft “supercilious” remarks. As for your question, I thought I had answered it by referring to my time as a gardener at Scunthorpe Hospital. Obviously I should have added that this was the closest I’ve ever come to working in the public sector and it was the only one I’ve ever applied for. Absolutely loved it.
Gurny, I do wonder what planet you’re living on. I don’t have any ‘problems’. You seem obsessed with the fact that I’ll happily talk about mental health. It’s people who won’t talk about mental health — or use it as a weapon, as you’ve done in the past — who have the problems.
Your comments are so way off that they’re ridiculous. Like most people I’ve had to cope with all sorts of stresses throughout my life and I know better than most the worry of whether the mortgage could be paid or not. Ask many people who have run businesses and they’ll tell you how tough it is. Far more businesses fail than succeed, but you conveniently forget about that. According to you people just make a lot of money, try to avoid taxes and exploit others. Well, Gurney, it doesn’t work like that in the real world, although you’ll always find exceptions; and, of course, it’s those bad ones who you’ll always claim are typical. You seriously don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
Usual superciliousness.
January 1, 2023 at 7:24 pm #251693Yep, another desperate, ridiculous post from BI in denial of reality. It’s the main problem with the Tories as a party, and it’s the main problem with their most ardent followers.
They open their mouths and people just start laughing with incredulity at how detached they are. They can’t gaslight people now – it no longer works. The suffering has been brought to everybody’s door, and it just won’t do to keep on lying and pretending the government is doing a good job.
With the NHS, everyone can see how the government is underfunding it, in order to run it down, claim it’s not working, and use that as an excuse for privatisation. Well, just imagine how big the premiums and bills would be for those unfortunate enough to have poor health – mental or otherwise – or the outrageous fortune to suffer a bad accident.
Do you know the prime reason for bankruptsy in the USA, BI? It’s the inability to pay medical bills.
It’s obvious to all how these factors can contribute to people’s poor mental health. But, then what happens? They end up paying another bill for treatment for depression/stress/anxiety and all its related manifestations – alcoholism, gambling, etc!
And there you are, with issues of your own, advocating precisely the kind of political and economic measures which just make it all worse! You really do need help, BI. But, the good news is that treatment is still free at the point of delivery.
January 1, 2023 at 8:13 pm #251696“Any company run in the same way would have gone out of business years ago”.
The idea that business directors don’t get high pay, lots of perks, bonuses, fat pensions and never play golf was a joke, wasn’t it?
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January 17, 2023 at 8:20 pm #253163And then he was nowhere to be read again. Must have been his New Year’s resolution to take yet another break.
I’m sure he will have been interested to learn that private sector pay is going up at a rate of 7.2% versus 3.4% for the public sector.
And as for blaming the unions, the war in Ukraine, covid or the alignment of the stars, the public are blaming the Tories for the shambles in the NHS, despite the ramblings above.
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