The big problem with Hell

[64]

Only the dead get to see the faces of Conservative Christians when Satan answer the door

[Northumbiron]

The big problem with Hell is it doesn’t exist.

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Iron-awe

[Gurnelista]

It’s like with all religious concepts – the only place it exists is in people’s heads.

[TwoWrights]

Northumbiron wrote:

The big problem with Hell is it doesn’t exist.

Indeed, not since the Vetch Field wàs demolished.

[Just Iron]

If I had to say which 3 folk on the Bru were most evidently strangely fascinated by a spiritual dimension that they purported to dismiss out of hand … along with a high degree of intolerance towards those of a different persuasion … then the posters above would be my choice.
ps You came into my thoughts a couple of days ago,Gurney. So I prayed for you. Hope all is OK in your world.

[Just Iron]

pps TW posted as I was writing. A good 4th I think.

[Just Iron]

ppps see my posting on the ‘listening to thread’ … now there’s a pointer to a reality existing beyond ‘people’s heads.’

[TwoWrights]

Just Iron wrote:

pps TW posted as I was writing. A good 4th I think.

Much obliged. 🙂

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Just Iron

[TwoWrights]

[Northumbiron]

TwoWrights wrote:

Northumbiron wrote:

The big problem with Hell is it doesn’t exist.

Indeed, not since the Vetch Field wàs demolished.

And there were a couple of pubs in the Wild West-End of Newcastle that would have made it into Dante’s Inferno!

BTW The concept of Hell as we think of it is a medieval invention.

Previous incarnations were waiting rooms for the soul.

If you want folk to tow the party line, don’t reason with them, scare them shitless!

Project Fear is not a 21st century invention.

[TwoWrights]

Disappointed in you, ‘toe the line’. 🙂

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Just Iron, Deereyme66

[Deereyme66]

His line broke down, tha knows. Needs to report to awaywego – he got the saying right on t’other side recently. You heard it here first!

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TwoWrights

[Northumbiron]

I’ve needed towing away for years!

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TwoWrights, Deereyme66, Just Iron

[Bucksiron]

Haven’t had much time to visit the site recently but nothing’s changed. Same offensive and idiotic posts from the same usual suspects. I don’t believe, either, but I respect those who do.

Just change the word ‘Christians’ to ‘Islamists’ and ask whether that would be acceptable? Frankly, posting either is obscene.

[Iron-awe]

Your posts don’t change Buck’s are you now a usual suspect 🤔

[Deereyme66]

Been away, but returned with an even broader brush to sweep up anyone who doesn’t agree with you, more like. You’ve submitted a dogmatic post without bothering to consider existing posts properly, and immediately used the words ‘idiotic’ and ‘offensive’ and the phrase ‘usual suspects’. You’re like a stuck record. A tiresome one.

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Heath

[Siderite]

If anyone is so offended by people saying Hell doesn’t exist they need to grow a spine, frankly. I probably wouldn’t have commented like such myself, but it’s not that extreme. I am far more offended by the idea of Hell where people can be tortured for eternity for being gay or not believing. I don’t believe in that, but the idea of it is horrible and disgusting. 64’s joke was a bit crass, but I am not keen on policing jokes too much, and I have no problem with conservatives joking about liberals if they see fit.

I understand the comfort religion gives people, and do admit some past comments have been intolerant, but I don’t think the above is that much. Certainly not worth a Bucks scolding. It’s always amusing when the right, who usually bemoan political correctness, urge it when it suits them. After all, any atheist surely thinks the statements in reference are correct. Having to tone that down is political correctness, really. What next? Tutting at The Life of Brian because some Christians might get offended?

The creeping in of religious appeasement from some, of both left and right, is a bit wearisome. It’s not horrendous bigotry against Christians to refuse to vote for them if you disagree with their views. It’s not horrendous bigotry against Muslims to think we shouldn’t bow down to their ‘offense’ at the Qur’an being scuffed. We’re being forever told to respect theism, but the reciprocal is not always the case. Now, I will respect beliefs, I do not think Christians are stupid, as some atheists make out, I don’t think it’s like a mental illness as I have seen implied. If people believe, good for them, but they can’t expect me not to say Hell doesn’t exist (at least in my opinion) to avoid offense.

I would say Islamists isn’t a good example. Islamists are Islamic extremists, and it doesn’t mean the same as Muslim. If we’re going to bend over backwards to accommodate them we will have to do more in censoring ourselves to please them. Frankly, anyone can get stuffed if they think I am going to moderate myself that much to appease Islamists who find anything offensive, seemingly.

[Iron Age]

Just an interesting point, how long is “eternity?” 🤔

[TwoWrights]

Iron Age wrote:

Just an interesting point, how long is “eternity?”

90 minutes, many a Saturday afternoon. 🙂

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Northumbiron

[TwoWrights]

Iron-awe wrote:

Your posts don’t change Buck’s are you now a usual suspect

As ever, he’s a usual superciliousness. 😜

[Northumbiron]

Bucks will no doubt tell us Hell does exist as he knows a number of people who have been there!

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TwoWrights

[Deereyme66]

Get the impression he opened the pub door, shouted ‘ner ner, ner-ner ner!’ and tootled off

[Bucksiron]

It has absolutely nothing whatever to do with ‘hell existing’. While Siderite makes a fair comment in that Muslims would be a better word than Islamists, either way the point remains.

If you don’t respect people’s right to hold their religious views then you’re not just disrespecting Christians but all religions.

The OP is just offensive.

[Siderite]

Your post wasn’t directed solely at the OP though; it was at those who made comments stating it doesn’t exist too. Ok, I didn’t see the need to post like the above, but it’s an honest comment from the point of view of any atheist. It’s not disrespecting the right to hold a religious view to say it’s a figment of imagination. I think it is made up, but I can accept others believe in an afterlife. I don’t see why I should respect a horrible concept like Hell either, just because some believe in it. I respect them as a believer, but the belief is not the person, and it’s one which doesn’t sit well with my moral framework.

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Deereyme66

[Pat O’Cake]

Bucksiron wrote:

If you don’t respect people’s right to hold their religious views then you’re not just disrespecting Christians but all religions.

I respect everyone’s right to hold whatever religious views they want, just as long as they respect my right to think that believing any God existing is utter nonsense.

A very wise man once said there are thousands of Gods, I just don’t believe in one more than you.

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TwoWrights

[64]

As somebody who was christened, forced to sing hymns and chant the lords prayer through most of my childhood I recon ,as a registered “Christian” ,I have every right to point out the obvious oxymoron that is “Conservative Christian”] I would cetainly never denigrate people from other religions as some would have me do just to even things up,so they say
As for use of the word Islamist, with all it’s context ,it shows you everything you need to know about how Conservatives mindset wanting to demonise people ,remember the Brexit debate,the posters never showed EU citizens when they discussed immigration .
Satan must reserve a special torment for these people .”No I’m not Peter , guess again !”

[Just Iron]

My further twopennorth. I probably gave this thread extra ‘legs’ by pointing out the strange fascination of several posters with beliefs that they dismiss as fantasies. When good faith responses have been made in the past some of these same posters resort to mockery and insults. On my last venture into these waters I made lengthy, detailed and rational explanations as to why I felt that the topic was being superficially approached by some. When the points made were repeatedly ignored or misrepresented, again by some, I decided that enough was enough and bowed out. Within a few hours one poster was gleefully asserting that as far as offering explanations and reasoned arguments was concerned I ‘had form’ in terms of avoiding debate.
I’m happy to discuss and disagree and be disagreed with. I’m not averse to passionate and robust exchanges. What nauseates me is when people don’t engage with honesty, ignore carefully crafted arguments, attribute dissenting views to wickedness or ignorance and … worst of all … take pleasure in the potential to land some sort of a blow by doing the above. It’s one of the reasons why my contributions are few and far between.
Perhaps the biggest disappointment for me is that when one or two posters showed signs of genuine appreciation of someone posting a minority perspective on the Christian faith in a reasoned way and were engaging in respectful dialogue .. … the ‘types’ described above made sure that the thread descended into chaos.
‘It’s only a football fans forum’ has been the rebuttal for my plea for respectful and honest debate. If that’s the defence for all of the above approach .. then I guess I’m right in my take that I should take myself elsewhere.

ps a bit of a pity because I did want to probe 64 as to why it would be ‘conservative’ Christians who would be greeted by Satan. I guess I’ll never get to know.

[Siderite]

I do agree that has been a feature in previous discussions, JI. I don’t agree with your take, will vociferously express why I disagree with such, but I don’t think it’s beyond humans to understand why some people believe. I think some glibly dismiss the need for spiritual fulfilment in many humans. It doesn’t make them stupid for believing in ‘Bronze Age myths’. I may think Christianity is an archaic myth, but it’s clear its teachings resonate with loads, and I don’t think the reasons why are beyond the limits of understanding for anyone.

I don’t like religious sensitivity, of any creed, and will argue against any attempt to push religious teaching on others. However, people should be free to make their own minds up, including on faith. I have little issue with religions preaching their beliefs, which I find disagreeable or abhorrent, in their temples, churches and mosques. I don’t want them to expect those beliefs to be forced on others by law, though, which is what is grating about the sheer cowardice in situations like the Kettletorpe blasphemy case.

I know JI won’t agree with me on faith based matters, but I hope it comes across that I respect the right to believe and the need for faith, even if I find aspects of that belief less worthy of respect. I could go on and on about this topic, but sensitivity about belief (any belief, I am not speaking just about religion here) is one of my biggest bugbears. I think it is a partial reason for why authoritarian thinking arises, because it makes beliefs beyond question.

[64]

“ps a bit of a pity because I did want to probe 64 as to why it would be ‘conservative’ Christians who would be greeted by Satan. I guess I’ll never get to know.”
As explained i find today’s Conservative movement incompatible with the stories of Christ’s teaching.
Christians follow Christ’s basic teaching hopefully,Kindness,Sharing,empathy and forgiveness in the hope it will get them into heaven.
Conservatives are not getting in on their current track record .Not sure why you think that isn’t clear

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Just Iron

[Just Iron]

Thanks, 64. It’s clearer now. I didn’t pick up on the capital C. You obviously meant Conservatives who are also Christian…. rather than Christians who hold to traditional teaching.
ps For what it’s worth …. Christ didn’t actually teach that ‘sharing, empathy, kindness and forgiveness’ will get anyone into heaven. It’s a bit more subtle and drastic than that.

[Author]

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