Take Back Control

[billpuntonsghost]

Sorry for using the wrong word,becauze of that you won’t accept my “ clever stuff” .
If I’d used the correct spelling would you have taken my post seriously ??
I think not, an ad-hom spelling criticism is your way of dismissing a post that has “clever stuff “in it.

[Deereyme66]

‘Supposedly clever stuff’. Sarcasm bpg. It’s not merely a spelling mistake either, you clearly think ‘permutate’ is an appropriate word to use in your argument. It’s not and it devalues your argument. It’s what teachers and lecturers would commemt on as ‘shoddy work, must try harder’. Better quality expected to convince your naysayers bpg. That is all. You’re not alone mind. This trait doesn’t recognise left or right it seems. A few of you should be minded to improve your diction. Thanks.

[billpuntonsghost]

Moving on from the spelling ( which I accept you would have put a red line through with a double question mark) . The truth of the post is still valid, critical theory and intersectionality ideas ( neo- Marxism ) which has been introduced in university thought from it’s philosophical origins in the 1930’s has now become mainstream . It takes time for an ideology to come into play . The destructive ideas of this philosophy is being played out.The Globalist worldview is capitalising on this turmoil and misery and chaos will ensue- starting (as Bucksiron states) with the working classes,but we all will be unfortunate victims eventually, in this non-Christian worldview.

[Deereyme66]

‘The destructive ideas of this philosophy is being played out.The Globalist worldview is capitalising on this turmoil and misery and chaos will ensue’

The first sentence is your opinion, no facts to prove it. The second sentence? Just as easy to say capitalism itself is going through a tough time as the older industrialsed order is replaced by the newer industrialised nations taking advantage of market forces and a globalised economy. Supposed ‘Neo Marxism’ has nothing to do with it. Materialism is driving it.

[billpuntonsghost]

I also stated ,the globalists with “there is no God” worldview so why not get rid of half the world’s population and have complete control of the rest- their view is there is no life after death ,so why not!
Hitler with the same “ unbiblical and no God” worldview wrote the book Mein Kampf- you only have to look at the misery and chaos that philosophical thought led to.
Karl Marx is another with ideas that led to untold millions of deaths and suffering
The new and past philosophical ideas all have unbiblical and “there is no God “philosophical thought,the outcome will always be the same.

[Northumbiron]

Bucksiron wrote:

Well, let’s just hope these cheap renewables are all they’re made out to be. I wouldn’t bank on it.

Nothing is cheap Bucks, and therein lies the problem!

Mind you, companies like Shell with their huge profits don’t help matters.

I could suggest an alternative way to go but I’d be shot down in flames!

[Deereyme66]

Remember this rubbish?

@mrjamesob or do you mean this cheesy advert for Brexit? pic.twitter.com/QuFNl92gl4

— The Trawl (@TheTrawlPodcast) November 4, 2022

[Northumbiron]

And we’re still waiting for that list of benefits!

[Heath]

Page 4 and still not a single benefit.

[Iron-awe]

Heath wrote:

Page 4 and still not a single benefit.

Patience these things can take up to fifty years before becoming apparent.

[Deereyme66]

As Alcy used to say: ‘mu haha!’. Kind of miss him.

[Iron-awe]

….don’t miss his propaganda videos though.

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Deereyme66

[Bucksiron]

“Page 4 and still not a single benefit.”

OK, Heath, a huge and very obvious benefit to the UK concerns the provision of support to address energy prices without any EU interference. This is already causing a lot of problems in the EU, especially as Germany has announced its own support package, which is threatening EU unity.

[64]

has it stopped them?
dare we mention which party sold off our gas companies taking government control away from them pn price etc,if they hadn’t there wouldn’t ned to be a handout
t’s funny to see Tories backing fossil fuels when the apparent reason thye gave for vandalising the coal mining industry was coal being dirty , coincidently making British gas pretty attractive to buyers but also meant we used up our own reserves of gas much quicker and had to rely on the international market and Tory donors from Russia. Tories, eh?

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TwoWrights

[Gurnelista]

Germany has announced a support package which goes way beyond anything offered by the Sunak government. Some countries have been critical of it, because it may affect the help they can offer, and that’s been the extent of ‘disunity’.

Germany rolls out £177bn support package to ease soaring energy bills

So where is the benefit to the UK being outside the EU? You still haven’t answered the question because there isn’t one, there isn’t anything which can justify the economic and social self-harm done by the country to itself.

Almost everyone with a functioning brain acknowledges this. It cannot be denied. Nobody says it is the only cause of all the bad stuff, but the bad stuff is all made worse because of it.

It was brought about with lies, cons, deceit and dishonesty, much of it at the highest level, as Tory MPs prioritised loyalty to the far right and their own personal ambition, over truth, decency and honesty. Same with the jonnies on here. Brexit pursued the racist vote and was achieved by telling a lot of lies, dividing the country, and giving false hopes about the way it could be improved. As such, it needs a public enquiry. The press know the BS that was put about, and were part of it – no wonder they want everyone to move on.

It has made almost everyone poorer. There should be penalties and punishments for the liars, yet one of them became PM!

[Heath]

The supposed benefit was sunk in your own post:

“Germany has announced it’s own support package”!!!!

We had our own currency, and a range of other opt outs negotiated by the fossil fuel killer herself, Mrs T.

Must try harder Bucks, we will soon be on page 5.

You will be claiming that the right to pump uncontrolled sewage into our rivers and coastal areas is a benefit next.

[Iron-awe]

…….don’t forget how wonderfully well we control our own borders now we have left the EU, that was going to be a massive benefit a I recall.

[Bucksiron]

All of which just goes to show that it’s impossible to have a sensible debate with any of you lot over Brexit. The plain fact is that EU regulations restrict state intervention in the economy in EU member states.

Of course, Gurny just dismisses what’s happening with Germany as though it were a small matter. It isn’t. It’s actually very serious and likely to become even more serious as the energy crisis deepens, which it will. As for your comment, Heath, the fact that Germany has announced its own energy support package IS the problem, though I’m not sure you get it.

Gurny’s still rolling out the same stuff he’s been rolling out for the past six or seven years. As for making everyone poorer, the project fear predictions have failed to come true while any impact of Brexit pales into insignificance against ridiculous lockdowns, which did enormous damage to both the economy and health, and net zero, which is plunging people into poverty. The only zero attached to that will be the effect on climate from the trillions being wasted, which could and should be being used to address real problems.

[Siderite]

I seem to remember you doing a mea culpa over lockdowns. Now you have switched again.

It may be that lockdowns could be judged to be worse than the alternative. However, we weren’t privileged with hindsight and a lot of the arguments against them from the time were not great. Suffice to say, I can see arguments for both sides, but will go easy due to the unprecedented nature of it. No point going into this with you though, because there’s no chance you’d respect my opinion or understand a complex argument. It would just be twisted to me saying lockdowns are perfect or something to suit your agenda against anyone to the left of you.

[Heath]

“As for making everyone poorer, the project fear predictions have failed to come true”

Err, yes they have.

[Bucksiron]

Err, no they haven’t, Heath.

I accepted being wrong about the first lockdown and, indeed, said so at the time, Siderite. After that, no, and I actually did a radio interview pointing out the appalling increase in domestic violence — among many other things — resulting from the lockdowns.

I also recall saying — and I’m pretty sure it was on this board — that the true impact of covid and of the lockdowns wouldn’t be known until some time after the pandemic. There’s nothing remotely clever about that, it’s just the nature of data and how these things work, though of course loads of abuse was hurled in my direction, regardless. I do recall Gurny — who else — saying dreadful things about my neighbour and mate who died of covid, but Gurny’s one bitter and twisted individual.

As you rightly say, Siderite, these things are complex but there’s little doubt now that far more people will die because of covid rather than directly from it, because of the lockdowns. Likewise, the economy is taking a massive hit although that would be far less if the world wasn’t fixated on absurd net zero targets.

Net zero will very likely result in millions of people dying and hundreds of millions being forced into poverty. Of course I’ll have more abuse hurled at me for saying this, but that’s what the data is revealing. Even climate scientists don’t believe things are anything like as bad as being portrayed, but they love their shiny billion dollar supercomputers too much to call this out.

[Siderite]

Abuse = Me disagreeing with you or telling you to stop twisting my words. At most some sarcasm, and we can’t have that, because we can’t have us lesser mortals poking fun at the great one.

The fact you acknowledge that the first lockdown was necessary kinda undermines your point before, because that is demonstrably contradictory.

I think your post is still too simplistic, but I can’t be bothered to go into why, because you’d just carry on twisting and gaslighting, as you always do. You have had enough chances and I am bored of it.

I don’t know why you’re trying to shoehorn your other obsession in, except for trying to reel in a pointless debate where you can twist words, deliberately antagonise and gaslight, before playing the victim again.

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Heath

[Northumbiron]

“Net zero will very likely result in millions of people dying and hundreds of millions being forced into poverty.”

Millions have died and hundreds of millions have been forced into poverty already because of climate change.

That will continue if no action is taken.

Is that a price worth paying?

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Heath, Siderite

[Siderite]

Some of the environmentalist claims about planet ending are ludicrous. However, what matters is the scientific literature, not XR claims, for the science, and the predictions made by Hanson and others are what’s been witnessed. The consequences are stark for humanity, but not planet ending. That should be enough for action.

That’s all I will say, because I am not getting sucked into an endless debate, with little attempt to represent it honestly.

Also, by saying simplistic above, I am not arguing that things like domestic abuse and education weren’t detrimental. It’s that the choice was between two options with negative outcomes and I am sceptical of claims about high excess deaths coming from other means besides covid. Deaths are quite high now in covid waves. I don’t think it’s the lockdowns causing them.

[Heath]

You may have done a radio interview but reception for Chorley FM is not that good at my gaff.

The fact that you have a radio interview does not make you right about anything. Heard many radio interviews to know you are 100% wrong about the impact of Brexit.

[Northumbiron]

One of those nutters that come on the morning phone-in?

“The time is 9:42 and next up we have Bucksiron from Aylesbury.”

[Siderite]

I think he said it was an interview with BBC radio 4 at the time.

[Gurnelista]

We can imagine how that ‘interview’ went….

“What made you pick up the phone, Bucksiron?

So you say there’s a race
Of men in the trees.
You’re for tough legislation.
Thanks for calling,
I wait all night for calls like these”

(D. Fagen)

It’s rare to find someone as consistently wrong about absolutely everything, but BI takes the biscuit. An interesting question is whether he knows this, and is deliberately gaslighting and lying for political purposes, or whether he inhabits a completely different reality to that of most of us, in which case he needs help.

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Deereyme66

[Gurnelista]

Bucksiron wrote:

Absolute tosh, Gurny. What’s happening with Germany and the EU isn’t happening elsewhere in the world. There is only one EU…..
Its two major economies are at serious risk of collapse given the situation on energy and are praying for a warm winter to keep gas and electricity use down, which is rather ironic to say the least.

BI emits more bilge by the day. The sick man of Bru. The only economy at risk of collapse is the British one!

Part of your problem is that you’ve got your priorities wrong. Look, if one of your neighbours lights a bonfire and some smoke comes through your window, only a madman says ‘let’s abandon the house, we’re off, we’re going to live under the bridge at the end of the road where nobody can bother us…’ Well, you did!

Or, if you’re a member of the Football League and some clubs go into administration, there’s no sense in saying ‘let’s leave the league, we’re off, we’re going to play our own game with our own rules, we can decide who we play and what the rules will be…’
Complete total and utter stupidity.

[/quote]

Bucksiron wrote:

All you ever do is claim everything’s down to the Daily Mail and ‘liars’, which is absurd.

Not as absurd as your non-argument leaving the EU. When are you going to reveal a benefit of it – we’re still waiting.

In any case, you should get some reading lessons – it’s widely known that apart from the Mail and other papers, concerted campaigns to lie about Brexit were organised on Facebook and social media, as well as in government itself. Not least on here, as JI/Les recognise only too well.

Bucksiron wrote:

As for quoting polls, are you serious? They’re about as reliable as SUFC’s defence.

I think that was NI.
Try posting when sober.

Dear old BPG, do you ever hear voices when there’s nobody around?

[Siderite]

Bucks often quotes polling data when it suits him.

Contrary to popular opinion among some, polling data isn’t that unreflective. It’s tough in tight races, but Trump and Brexit were all within the margin of possibility. It’s here when careful consideration must be made. When there are huge gaps it’s unlikely to be drastic, so any Tory hoping that the current -25 gap between Labour and Tory is false because “we can’t trust polls” or whatever else (I know party voting intention isn’t the focus of this thread) is only deluding themselves. Just as Corbynites were when Labour was suffering massively under his leadership, and it’s just as laughable and pitiable to see such desperate arguments from others.

I trust polls more than ‘gut feelings’ of the very ‘measured’ people.

[Author]

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