Swords n chain mail

[Gurnelista]

I expect everyone saw pix of the two England ‘fans’ who were said to be banned from the stadium in Qatar because they were carrying plastic swords and wearing chain mail in Crusader garb. In response, the media were full of self-righteous indignation with a few predictable comments along the lines of ‘woke gone mad’.

What price it was a newspaper stunt to stir up the usual anti-woke and xenophobic sentiments? The article below has no actual proof of anything – note the use of ‘it is claimed that’ and ‘some claimed that’ and ‘allegedly’, in claims that were taken from social media! But the impression given, especially in the headline, is that they were banned.

Yet, imagine if a couple of Qataris had turned up at a stadium in Britain dressed as Arabian Knights and bearing plastic scimitars and ceremonial daggers… what would have been the response from the local jobsworths, who become apoplectic at fans taking in a plastic water bottle??

What do others think?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11467763/World-Cup-2022-England-fans-BANNED-dressing-offensive-Crusaders-USA-match.html

[Anonymous]

I think… I haven’t watched a single second of the so called ‘world cup’ – nor do I want to!
🤷‍♂️🙇‍♂️🤷‍♂️

2 users thanked author for this post.

BobbyGmeister, Northumbiron

[Awaywego]

Newcastle fans are already dressing up as Arabs, England fans have always dressed as crusaders at rugby cricket,rugby and football but if it causes offence anywhere just don’t do it, maybe dress up as nuns , vicars or the Pope, surely Christian figures shouldnt cause offence. Not all countries are as tolerant as us but that doesn’t make us in the right, down to individual countries to decide what is appropriate for their citizens based on religious and cultural beliefs and the law of course.

1 user thanked author for this post.

TwoWrights

[Siderite]

Couldn’t give a stuff about ‘cultural or religious beliefs’ if they impact others. We care too much about hurt feelings because of people’s beliefs being offended.

As for chain mail, I can see why it’s offensive. Not because of Christianity, but because of the Crusades. That said, as alluded to above, I am not sure if there is a strong moral case for banning it, even if I wouldn’t have done it and find it eye roll worthy.

[Awaywego]

Yes all that going on about the hurt feelings of the LGBTQ community annoys me. It’s football for f sake.

[Siderite]

Yes, criminalising people for who they are is just small fry. What really matters are upset theists for being called out for being horrible to others. Won’t someone think of their hurt feelings?

[lesgeo]

England V US.
Did I catch strains of: “It’s just like watching Scunthorpe?”

2 users thanked author for this post.

Just Iron, Awaywego

[CMC]

Just shows nobody likes Crusaders.

[TwoWrights]

lesgeo wrote:

England V US.
Did I catch strains of: “It’s just like watching Scunthorpe?”

Four points from two games? 🙂

[Gurnelista]

In reality this is a non-story, because everyone knows you can’t enter a stadium with an imitation sword in Qatar, any more than you can here!

But evidence suggests it was deliberately staged by a newspaper, to give themselves a headline and stir up their impressionable readers.

See how there are no names tied to the story, only claims, allegations, and apparently posts on social media. In other words, the journalist himself probably posted some rubbish somewhere, then reported his own comments for the article, and invented comments from other fans.

It’s nothing new. Pre-Brexit, the Mail did similar things with complete fictions about the EU. And, they do it now, inventing stories about likely to anger their readers – about ‘woke’ stuff, Markle, migrants, striking teachers, doctors….

British media at their very worst. They should carry a health warning.

[Northumbiron]

Today’s front page of the Daily/Sunday xenophobe. The one with the crusader on the banner…..

https://www.express.co.uk/ourpaper

[Gurnelista]

Aye, blame the foreigner!

With Qatar tho’, the Mail/Express are over a barrel. On the one hand, it’s Islamic and denies its people many rights enjoyed by westerners. But on the other, it’s non-woke. So any criticism of the country leaves the paper open to criticising itself and its editorial line. Anti-LBGTQ? Hoorah! Tough and repressive on law n order? Hooorah? Misogynist? Hooorah? Tax-free? Hooorah! Death penalty? Hooorah, Right-wing media praising right-wing leaders and cancelling the left? Hooorah!

How could the Tory press argue with any of that? So a non-story/stunt involving sword-bearering fans being refused entry to the stadium is its limit.

[Bucksiron]

What a typical piece of leftist nonsense. Are we now to assume that anyone who dresses as a knight in chain mail is somehow offensive because of the crusades?

Maybe they should have gone dressed as workers on the stadia, in which case they could have worn a couple of coffins. I haven’t watched a single game of this World Cup because it’s a tournament built on the bodies of 6,000 workers. That doesn’t appear to have bothered the Qatari authorities too much.

[Siderite]

How are you not aware that people dressed in chain mail with the cross of St George are commonly dressed as Crusaders or at least it could be interpreted as such? How are you unaware that Arabic nations see this as offensive? Rightly or wrongly, Arabs will see it as Crusader attire

Now, I don’t agree with why they get so irate about it. I have already stated that I am uncomfortable with the idea of banning it, before you start your usual straw manning. It was 1000 years ago, the emotion should be long worn, but the idea the attire has nothing to do with the Crusades is just daft and ignorant.

[Iron-awe]

There wouldn’t have been crusades in the first place if it wasn’t for religion, the root of the problem yet again.

2 users thanked author for this post.

TwoWrights, Siderite

[Northumbiron]

There is no historical background or contemporary account of any of the crusading armies wearing crosses on surcoats. Surcoats worn over chain mail did not appear until the end of the twelfth century anyway, and that was towards the end of the third crusade.

Additionally, both Christian and Muslim warriors wore chain mail and would have looked quite similar, particularly as European armies often took elements of Arabic dress and adapted them to their own personal use (still the case in WW1 & WW2).

The popular image of mail and a white surcoat bearing a red cross is a much later concoction and is more to do with St George, whom if he did exist, was most likely of Middle Eastern origin.

Polish fans dressing as the winged hussars that helped defeat the Muslim army at the siege of Vienna in 1683 would perhaps be more appropriate.

Here endeth the history lesson!

2 users thanked author for this post.

Gurnelista, Siderite

[Siderite]

Ok, fair. I take back my comments about them being dressed as such and apologise to Bucks. Though, I do think their attire is commonly interpreted as such and this is obviously where the controversy lies.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Iron-awe

[Gurnelista]

But the pair weren’t stopped entering the ground because of what they were wearing. According to the Mail it was because they were carrying swords.

A variation of the story appeared in the Express (below). Again, no names provided, just allegations. The last line says it all, with “if (the story) is to be believed…”.

In all probability it was a media stunt, created to sell papers and give the impression Qatar is awful (because this is what many think), when in fact the country supports pretty much everything the Mail and Express stand for – few human rights, disregard for immigrants and massive inequality, unless you happen to be a Qatari male.

It’s classic tabloid hypocrisy and double standards.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1701813/England-news-fans-wearing-crusader-costumes-forced-to-strip-naked-Qatari-police-World-Cup

[64]

Would you be allowed in a UK ground?

[Iron-awe]

64 wrote:

Would you be allowed in a UK ground?

No but you seem to be ok with flares as plenty seem to get in week in week out in UK grounds.

[mistertonmick]

CMC wrote:

Just shows nobody likes Crusaders.

I do, watched Crusaders play Linfield on Friday on Sky, seen them a few times this season on BBC NI.

[Bucksiron]

No problem at all, Siderite, I don’t take it personally but thank you for the apology, which is appreciated. At least you have the guts to do this and full respect you for that.

As for this being a ‘media stunt’, what a load of codswallop. The only person taking advantage of this is you, Gurny, with your ridiculous comments about the media and your daft remarks about them not supporting human rights, disregarding immigrants and believing in ‘massive inequality’.

By all means criticise the media — they’re very far from perfect — but what you’re insinuating is very clear and it’s absurd. My God, if you lived in Qatar and many countries other than the UK you wouldn’t be able to come out with this stuff. The only hypocrisy and double standards on show here are from you.

[64]

I didn’t see the annual poppy outrage this year,perhaps they were saving it for this new outrage

1 user thanked author for this post.

Northumbiron

[Author]

Posts