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A great blog on this, detailing the pathetic and transparent goalpost shifting and weak realpolitik to favour Russia:
https://johnganz.substack.com/p/some-thoughts-on-ukraine
Both the worst of the left and the right have shamed themselves with their desperation to apologise for Russia. The leftists, because they see western capitalism and ‘neoliberalism’ as the great evil, and any opponent must be more supportable. The rightists, because they see the west as degenerate and Russia, on the face of it, as representing their grubby values.
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‘Both the worst of the left and the right have shamed themselves with their desperation to apologise for Russia. The leftists, because they see western capitalism and ‘neoliberalism’ as the great evil, and any opponent must be more supportable.’
Agreed – well put IMO. What I find ridiculous ìs some hard left friends trying to back up spurious claims with conspiracy theories rather than listening to the source itself: what Putin, his puppets and Russian media say. But no no, it’s all NATO and the West’s fault.
The extreme left and right resort to conspiracy theories a lot of the time which is why people should look at facts from multiple news sources before jumping in with two left or right feet.
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IA – The Russian stance is that it’s a managed withdrawal to the Donbass. Which is why they have abandoned all their equipment!
It was bad in Syria when they tried to legitimise Russian propaganda for that campaign, including pouring doubt over chemical attacks. Unfortunately, that was easier to convince, due to the existence of bad elements in Syria besides Assad. It didn’t matter that the Russians and Assad were targeting civilians; they could play on anti-Muslim bigotry and associate victims as terrorists (which is ironic, given these people often cry about anti-Muslim bigotry back home and in the Israel-Palestine conflict, rightly or wrongly). They could label groups like the White Helmets as a terrorist front, with no evidence, because of this.
However, they have overplayed their hand here. They have tried with the assertions that Ukraine is riddled with Nazis and far-right, but it hasn’t stuck. The public can see who the aggressor is, who is committing the atrocities, and claims of the Nazi nature of Ukraine look ridiculous when they act like any other nation defending its sovereignty against a foe which uses neo-Nazi mercenaries for their cause.
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The latest news of the Ukrainian gains was the most read stories on BBC News, and that includes the Queen related news, yesterday for some time. I know this includes international views, but it shows interest still.
I don’t think it will. The British public have always prided ourselves in standing up to a fascist threat in Nazi Germany. While, there isn’t an appetite to actively join the war in support of Ukraine, there is a sympathy there because of this, where Russia is seen as an expansionist aggressor against a sovereign neighbour, I think. Some may try that line, but I don’t think the public will turn against Ukraine because of it. It might be said the quickest way to end the conflict now is to continue support Ukraine to defeat Russia, especially after yesterday showed they are more than capable of pushing back.
Polls from across Europe shows a willingness to support Ukraine despite costs. From Germany to France to Poland to Czech Republic and so on.
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This is my point about listening to the primary sources whenever possible. This is what’s really going on but the naysayers either don’t see this or ďon’t want to see it because it negates their narrative
Life comes at you fast: pundits on Russian TV realize that their military is failing and their country is in trouble. They are starting to play the blame game. Some of them finally understand that their genocidal denial of the Ukrainian identity isn't working in Russia's favor. pic.twitter.com/jNNn5xifI5
— Julia Davis (@JuliaDavisNews) September 11, 2022
I see the cowardly, ‘anti-imperialist’ left are out piously making they’re out for peace again. They neglect to mention their peace means death and subjugation for Ukrainians, forced resettlements and going against their will:
Yes, the anti-war left is starting to rise! Here we are in Detroit calling for negotiations in Ukraine. We are holding teach-ins, marching, lobbying Congress. Join us. #peaceinUkraine pic.twitter.com/LYfQIf6FcJ
— Medea Benjamin (@medeabenjamin) October 17, 2022
These people were never anti-war, when they claimed to be during US involved conflict. Their prime motivation is disliking the west, and they see the west at fault everywhere, so they reflexively apologise for Russia and make out they’re being forced into conflict by the evil west. NATO aren’t even in Ukraine, their weapons are, and are they going to argue that it’s immoral to help defend an invaded nation from an invader who cares not one jot about human lives?
This also highlights the problem I have always had with pacifism. Sure, we can see that war brings horror and devastation, and we shouldn’t actively seek it without strong justification. However, sometimes we are forced into it and demanding Ukraine accepts anything for peace (as some do) means the victim losing and the aggressor gaining. What would stop Russia from trying more if Ukraine is made to seek compromise on terms it isn’t willing to commit to? Alongside some pacifists having more sympathy to the likes of Russia, this mentality is a toxic breeding ground for dictator and mass murder apologia. If peace matters above all else, then the more amendable side (Ukraine) should just give up in the eyes of some.
I am by no means saying all pacifists are like this, there are many commendable ones, but it’s a tendency I have noticed among many.
Nowadays most say they would of course be for standing up to Nazi Germany in the 30s, because that was just. Easy to say with hindsight, but given many apologise and deny crimes of current despots I am somewhat sceptical they would. Many of the time didn’t (looking at you, George Lansbury).
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Good posts IMO Siderite. I have a few friends who are so fiercely anti NATO and anti West it’s a waste of time discussing this matter. No matter what Putin does, or more atrocities he commits, apparently the US, NATO and allies are more to blame. Find it very dismaying that any humanitarian concerns are ignored or dismissed in favour of ideology. ‘Negotiations’?? When has Putin ever indicated he’s really interested in them? See their stance through to it’s logical conclusion and Putin would have taken Ukraine by now and be on to the next former Soviet country he’s embarrassed about losing in the first place (his words). But hey, in the name of ‘peace’ and stopping war, to hell with the Ukrainians (or not ‘but don’t ask troublesome questions please!). This is before we get on to the amount of ‘useful idiots’ out there on social media parroting exactly what Putin wants to hear. I know a few Ukrainians, as I’m sure many of the ‘stop the war’ crowd do. I’d feel pretty ashamed if I adopted the latter’s attitude.
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Is it all about leaving some kind of legacy as he gets older and in poor health, if so what? Raining down death and destruction on innocent people in a neighbouring country for whatever misguided reason does not seem a legacy that will be rembered too fondly. He may well control the Russian media and hope this will convince his people he is correct in his actions but these days keeping the entire population of a modern day country in ignorance, with all the different ways media outlets can be sourced, does not seem a very reliable way of doing it. Whatever his reasoning it is just an absolute tragedy that ordinary people are being killed and abused because of some dictators personal agenda but I guess that’s what dictators do. So sad.
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Good to see Kherson return to Ukrainian hands. The Russians are really embarrassing themselves in this war. A bigger humiliation than the winter war. Hopefully this boosts support for Ukraine, as they reclaim everything wrongfully taken from them for some perverse Russian nationalist agenda.
https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1591048091209121792
On a side note, it’s interesting that the pro-Ukrainian sovereignty and freedom Ukrainians associate this with the EU. I am not begrudging complaints about rules of such; I am aware there are reasonable criticisms of this. However, it would be nice if Brexiters stop with the EU is tyranny hyperbole. For those whose freedoms are genuinely threatened by autocracy it is clearly seen as not being such.
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