She was right

[64]

The right wing pro mass slaughter thugs do get arrested more

[Siderite]

The hooligans joining in were inevitable given the failure of the police to do their jobs. Not like that excuses their predictable yob behaviour.

Meanwhile, on the other side, the racism and hate continued with anti-Semitic placards, the same old chants about Israel not existing and Jews remembering the Khaybar, Muslims coming to destroy Israel and swastikas in star’s of David. The overt racism is beyond what I have seen for a long while. If this was Nick Griffin, people would not associate with it, but because there is a blind spot here, it gets excused or ignored. Something needs to be done. I would say the organisers need to distance themselves, but I suspect they’re content given their documented views of supporting Hamas in the past (their words and actions). Peace marches, my backside.

A plague on both the houses of the anti-Semites joining in with the Palestine marches and the yobs storming the cenotaph. I also suspect they’re more motivated by ‘defending Britain’ from those they see as against it than anything to do with Israel.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Just Iron

[Heath]

You seem to be more offended by words and flags than bombs.

[Siderite]

Oh, so warfare means it’s acceptable for racism is it?

Ok, so the next time an Islamist makes a terror attack I will remind myself that it’s immoral to call out anti-Muslim idiots attacking Muslims because of the terror attack

[Heath]

Racism isn’t acceptable but you failed to mention that there were about 300,000 on the march. The vast majority are not racists and just want the Israelis to stop their bombing and destruction, as do I. No arrests made on the march that I am aware of. Hopefully the police will identify the minority that you object to. Contrast that with Barton’s true Brits and “patriots”.

[Siderite]

I have said many are there in good conscience in more than one post before. I shouldn’t need to repeat it every time I post on this.

The marches are set up by people with obvious Hamas sympathies in many cases, many go on loudly chanting hateful slogans and carrying anti-Semitic placards. Do they represent all? No. However, the significant number who do are creating a toxic environment every weekend in our cities. Many Jews no longer feel safe to be in our cities, which is an indictment of it. No other march with racism would get this excuse of most being there for supporting hate, and anyone making that excuse would be condemned. Yet it’s fine for these marches apparently.

Latest video I have seen is idiots with Palestine flags outside a synagogue chanting. This is intimidation. I don’t think saying most will not have done this makes it any better that these marches are making no effort to address this. We wouldn’t be excusing others for similar behaviour.

[Iron Age]

You’re actually talking about a stateless people who have been oppressed since 1948 an are living in refugee camps.
You completely ignore the fact that Christians, Jews and other non Muslims were on the march.
Your hatred of Palestinians is so pronounced that you’re blind to it.
I find your posts depressing and lacking in hope. As I’ve said before, it’s not a football match, lives are continuing to be lost, to what end? How will it finish?

1 user thanked author for this post.

Heath

[Siderite]

I wasn’t aware that everyone on the march was Palestinian or stateless. The ones I have seen are white, British Pakistani, Bengali and many other ethnicities. I also wasn’t aware that if they were Palestinian, it means it’s ok for them to make anti-Semitic placards and chant hateful chants. I have made zero comment as to what nationality the trouble causers were. You made that bigoted and racist assumption yourself.

I have made no comments here about Palestinians as lesser or anything like that. Just that anti-Semitism is wrong and that the marches have propagated that.

You speak of blindless, but you are absolutely clueless to your own apathy, at best, towards hatred of Jews.

You speak so self-righteously about how depressing my posts are, because to be self-proclaimed anti-racist means you’re morally virtuous. However, you have precisely nothing to say about those leading the marches with their dodgy views. If you are saying that because the leaders of the march are Palestinian they’re beyond criticism, then I would say that’s pretty racist itself. Also, I was thinking of Ismael “we stand with Hamas” Patel who is not Palestinian. Then there’s Muhammad Kathem Sawalha, former Hamas chief. If this is why you said I hate Palestinians, then I would say you have just conflated Hamas with Palestinians. Hamas, whose original charter called for the genocide of Jews. Apparently ok if Israel has committed wrongs.

I have not made any comment on the rights or wrongs of the conflict regarding this protest. However, you seemingly don’t care what that means for British and other Jews being intimidated by anti-Semitism. It is truly disgusting that I don’t think that Jews shouldn’t be hounded at synagogues or in British cities. I should learn to be like you, the world’s most moral person, and turn a blind eye to people chanting for their destruction.

[Iron Age]

I have made no anti Jewish statement, I have however been critical of the Israeli government, I don’t claim to have a high moral standpoint, I have too many faults.
I do however speak out for the oppressed, those who have been bullied and discriminated against. That would be for Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Christians etc.
As I said, all you have to offer is despair, no solutions, malignancy and no healing.
If you want the dog to stop biting, stop kicking the dog.

[Siderite]

Yet you remain silent on what I was actually talking about this thread and try and distract. You have accused me of hating Palestinians because I criticised the nature of the organisers and many (but not all) of the protesters. I can only see it for what it is, because this kind of excuse for any other hate at a protest, like the right wing boneheads at the counter-protest, would not be so easily ignored. Those who claim to not be apathetic towards anti-Semitism sure are full of excuses and straw men to distract from condemnation. There’s always an excuse.

Any injustices against Gaza is no excuse for anti-Semitic radicalisation. It does not excuse Hamas and does not excuse calls for the destruction of Israel. Anti-Semitism has existed in the area since before Israel, and it would do continue to do so if Israel didn’t react and behaved as many say it should (but would still have an issue anyway). The extremists have no interest in peace with Israel, they keep saying as such, so you make that accusation against me but have none yourself beyond Israel just accepting being victims of zealots wanting to kill them. Talk about bleak.

None of this means I think Palestinians are defined by extremists in their midst, but pretending it’s not a problem won’t solve anything, it will only allow it to continue. This won’t stop until Netanyahu and the Likudists are discredited and gone, and Islamism in Palestine too. As well as coming to terms with Israel’s existence and not continuing with the same failed violence which has yielded nothing for decades.

[Siderite]

I have also given my opinion on what should end the current conflict in another thread, but fat load of good does that do me. I still get accused of not saying it.

[billpuntonsghost]

[Deereyme66]

‘The hooligans joining in were inevitable given the failure of the police to do their jobs.’

Is that a joke?

[Siderite]

Not really, given the poor nature of the policing fed into the propaganda of the hooligans. Hence the shame on you chants directed at the police. They saw it as such and took it upon themselves to ‘defend Britain’. They feared policing wouldn’t be sufficient on remembrance day. People speak of them being whipped up by Suella, but they were talking about counter proteststwo weeks ago. This would have happened anyway.

None of this is to justify, they shouldn’t have been there, shouldn’t have caused their predictable trouble. It was also predictable that it would happen, which was my point. Not that vigilante behaviour is right.

[Deereyme66]

I think it was feck all to do with policing and the simple fact they’ll find any excuse for a scrap. I think you’re overestimating their motivations personally.

[Heath]

What do you mean by the ‘poor nature of the policing’. Easy for you to say from the comfort of your keyboard. The only people who disrupted the ceremony at the Cenotaph were the meatheads. The veterans were appalled!

[Siderite]

Deereyme66 wrote:

I think it was feck all to do with policing and the simple fact they’ll find any excuse for a scrap. I think you’re overestimating their motivations personally.

Perhaps I over-emphasised it as a sole reason. However, there was an impression across social media that the police were too willing to excuse the inexcusable. Such as when, after chants of ‘jihad’ were heard, they said it just means spiritual struggle. I think anyone who thinks that in that context it meant anything but a call to rise up with violent intent is naive. It was this sort of thing that riled the football lads alliance types.

As for criticising the police from my armchair, I will do so just as I did with the Sarah Everard vigil and all of us do with politicians and others, from the comfort of home.

[Heath]

“It was this sort of thing that riled the football lads alliance types”.

My riled up estimate.

Cruella/Richguy 70%
Marchers 29%
Police 1%

[Siderite]

Given the idiots were talking about going to the march two weeks before Suella’s ill judged comments, I doubt that.

[Iron-awe]

Thread title should read

She Was Out Of Order and Yesterday Proved It.

[Just Iron]

Fight the good fight, Sidey. Glad you’ve got the time.
Iron Age .. your take on the history is breathtaking in its superficiality. Anyone can speak out of ignorance .. but in the age of Google, books from Amazon and You Tube it’s less excusable than it used to be. I won’t give the same challenge to you, Heath. You seem to plough the same furrow on most issues and I guess you ain’t shifting anytime soon.

[Iron Age]

Google? Books from Amazon?
I get my information from my Bible (not from Amazon by the way).

[Deereyme66]

‘Fight the good fight, Sidey.’

You keep dropping that JI and tbh it grates. What fight? We’re not in a propaganda war; we’re giving our thoughts on current affairs. You may see it as a fight, in reality it’s the non football side of a football forum. As for the rest of your post : ‘no comment’

2 users thanked author for this post.

Heath, Iron-awe

[Just Iron]

Genuinely surprised by that response Iron Age. Not sure what to make of it to be honest. Do you get all your modern history and political perspectives directly from the Bible?

[billpuntonsghost]

I owe my faith to my election,not I owe my election to my faith.
..I guess you ain’t shifting anytime soon.

[Just Iron]

Deereyme66 wrote:

‘Fight the good fight, Sidey.’

You keep dropping that JI and tbh it grates. What fight? We’re not in a propaganda war; we’re giving our thoughts on current affairs. You may see it as a fight, in reality it’s the non football side of a football forum. As for the rest of your post : ‘no comment’

‘Fight the good fight’ is a metaphor, Deerey. (I think you knew that)
Sidey has the time ..and inclination .. to engage with this issue and generally reflects alot of my thinking where I don’t have the time or energy.
Whether or not it grates on you isn’t very high on my list of priorities.
Oh … and wherever this issue is raised … we definitely ARE in a propaganda war.

[Deereyme66]

The fact you feel the need to establish sides with that sort of metaphor speaks volumes. No wonder others are put off by contributing to this side of the forum if you’re intent on making it a propaganda war. Couldn’t give a stuff what your priorities are; I made a a genuine point and it still stands regardless. It’s not a competition. Have a good day fighting the good fight. Hope it makes you happy.

[Heath]

“I won’t give the same challenge to you, Heath. You seem to plough the same furrow on most issues and I guess you ain’t shifting anytime soon.”

As do you JI, patronising as ever. Get back to your books.

[Gurnelista]

Just Iron wrote:

… we definitely ARE in a propaganda war.

You sound quite frightened, JI.
Can you tell us who is this ‘we’?
And, who is your war against?

[Just Iron]

Wasn’t patronising Heath. Stating facts. And certainly not telling YOU what to do.
You may not be in any kind of war , Deerey. But then you don’t have a daughter and grandkids in Israel. You don’t have nephews hauled back into uniform. And you don’t have to engage with folks in the flow of daily life who want to ask how my family is and then, having watched another 10 minutes of BBC news, give me a mini lecture on how Israel is failing the world. A propaganda war indeed.
For you Gurney .. although I’ve rarely engaged with you without an acute sense of your personal distate for my beliefs and your inability to disassociate from that .. I would say that if you think there is nothing to fear in all of our lives then I have to question your critical faculties. We all share a common humanity and there are many things that are going wrong for vast numbers of people ..and they could be much worse. I think the metaphor of war is entirely appropriate .. most reformers, advocates for social justice and campaigners for truth and righteousness have used such imagery in the past and in our own times. There are a number of ways I engage. A tiny part is on this board and this Israel thread ..but am happy that Sidey and others have more time and energy. It will probably disgust or incense you that my main weapon of warfare is prayer

[Author]

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