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The players are good for their clubs, we know that. It’s the managers job to knit their individual strengths into an effective and efficient team playing to those strengths. Giving a player a role in which he doesn’t excel because that’s not what he usually does is not good management IMO. Anybody know Foden’s role last night because he didn’t seem to?
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I don’t think justly criticising players for their performances makes them scapegoats. They’re not beyond criticism. Though I’ve heard more criticism of players like Trent, Tripper and Foden being played out of position than leveled directly at them. Why leave a player on for the full 90 when he’s not impacting on the game? Particularly when you have the likes of Palmer and Gordon who can have an immediate impact?
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Southgate’s record is a good one TBF, he gets stick because England are pretty cautious at times compared to some countries we see but also some England fans reckon we should win every game by big margins playing
amazing attacking football because we are England. The real world however doesn’t operate that way and I’m hoping England grow into the tournament as the group stages progress. I wasn’t particularly impressed or critical of England last night because it’s the first game of hopefully many more to come in this competition for our country,I’m just getting behind them and seeing how it goes.2 users thanked author for this post.
I think that’s fair. At least you’re actually commenting on what you witnessd last night as opposed to reeling off stuff on the periphery of it. Yeah, some fans maybe do expect too much (saw quite a few 4 and 5 nil predictions last night. Mine was 2-1 to Serbia), but i also think there’s nothing wrong with pointing out obvious failings witnessed. I find it patronising when supporters with legitimate criticisms are tarred with some sort of ‘Premier league loving entitled brat’ brush, as some often do. Inverted snobbery. It’s possible to appreciate football at all levels, and many fans do.
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England don’t have a right to win every tournament, no team does, but we do have a right to expect us to play to the best of our ability. Many of these players have shown their class for their clubs, which have made them have very good reputations. Bellingham was sensational for Real Madrid, Kane did have a good season for Bayern and Foden for Man City. My non-English friends say the same thing, so I don’t think it’s all English bias. Many knowledgeable fans can see the same players put in star performances for their clubs, but failing for their country. I don’t believe that Foden can go from being a big player for Man City to resorting to sloppy passing and hoofs from defence as he did with England last night. Pep wouldn’t have that.
Southgate does have a decent record with England. I would say he has done the most to make a united England team out of any manager for decades. This is to his credit, but he isn’t without flaws. It doesn’t seem fair to make out that we have achieved more results under Southgate because of him alone and to say failures only come because of players alone, or vice versa. When looking at the record above, we could say that the players we have got have allowed us to achieve such results, so Ferrite’s criticism of them is as wrong headed as any directed at Southgate because of this. Those results and tournament progressions aren’t bad for a team whose players regularly get found out at international level, where this argument is used against a team like Serbia, who are a good team but not better than some of those we have beaten in the recent past.
I have just finished watching Romania beat Ukraine with a more composed performance than England last night. I doubt the Romanian team are actually more talented than England, but are underhyped because of English bias. Their left back is a Spurs bench player, many others play in leagues of lower quality, but they looked like a team that could have beaten us last night. They were well drilled and knew how to control a lead, which is something we have lacked often under Southgate.
The positives are that we had scrappy performances in groups in all previous tournaments with Gareth and that didn’t stop us achieving more than we had done for years. Gareth clearly can man manage, which has allowed some success, but the performance yesterday was not a one off and is what punished us against Italy in 2021 and Croatia in 2018. He clearly hasn’t found a solution to it, and doesn’t seem to make changes to prevent it. I would expect a coach to be able to drill the squad in how to actually control a game, with possession, like other nations do. Even ones like Romania, with players of a lower calibre. That is on Southgate and I feel like he cannot get more out of the squad, so if we fail, I would like to see a fresh start with another manager who can maybe identify how to maximise the potential. After 4 major tournaments Gareth will have had enough opportunities.
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Andy Peaks vs Jimmy Dean for example?
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I agree that the defence seems a weak link, but that wasn’t an issue last night. The goalie and back four played well. We seem to be making the same mistakes, and Southgate doesn’t seem to know how to stop us from losing control of games after taking a lead. He has done well, and I am not saying this to be negative, but a fresh outlook would surely not be amiss if we lose again in the knockouts with the same things happening. We don’t have a right to win, and if this was Southgate’s first tournament I wouldn’t be saying it, but with some of those players there are many valid questions as to why Southgate can’t seem to maximise it.
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‘I think there is already an over-the-top level of criticism in the press and among England fans about last night’s performance’
Tbh, I’ve not read any press about last night’s match. Just commenting on what i saw for 90mins and offering my view.
‘It was a good win against the best team in the group that virtually guarantees qualification, in a formation that gets the most out of the team’s best player. Lots to be positive about.’
It was a win,but I wouldn’t say it was a good win. More hanging on in the second half hoping not to concede. Don’t particularly like the tactic, if that’s what tne plan was,to build it all around trying to get the most out of ‘the best player’. Maybe doing that was part of the problem? Certainly didn’t look very team like all second half and I don’t think it got the best out of others like Foden and Kane. Trent made some good passes in his role but he gave the ball away too much in a position you can’t be doing that in for long without getting punished.
I believe this will be Southgate’s last tournament as England manager what ever we achieve or not. After eight years he is due a well earned rest IMO, being England manager is still the biggest managerial role in world football and whatever our opinions on him the pressure must be intolerable at times. The British press like a lot of our fanbase are extremely fickle and unforgiving and yes it happens in other countries too but in the UK we have a certain way of turning the screw on an individual when it suits us. I hope he goes away, has a long rest from the game and comes back when and if he’s ready, I still think he would make a very good club manager but again it’s just my opinion.
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I think Southgate’s generally had the press on his side during his tenure. Any criticisms of his tactics, formations and in game decision making hasn’t been unjustified. I think he’s been great for England on numerous levels but I think it’s time for a change after this tournament. Believe he may have said or intimated that himself anyway?
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