Roe v Wade

[Siderite]

Yet premature births happen and can survive. After a certain time period this is more likely, and this is around the time a limit should be.

If you bothered reading, and understanding what I had said, I included the term surviving without the uterus. In other words, where they can be truly described as alive and sentient in the meaning we understand with another human being. Do you think that newborn babies need to be placed back into the uterus after birth to survive? The fact you can’t parse simple sentences doesn’t impress me. I am not saying that babies don’t need support, but they can survive without the benefit of a uterus and are sentient. A 16 week old fetus will have next to zero chance of survival, even with medical intervention. After 24 weeks, roughly, the chances increase. This was what my point was referring to, so please try and properly read before sounding off, with arrogant proclamations about the logic behind an argument you do not understand.

Calling a a zygote, fetus or embryo not a baby is not dehumanising, it’s what it is, and what you are demanding women to be controlled for, including for rape, incest and risk of death. You seem to think as soon as the sperm meets the ova it is alive in the sense of a baby.

[billpuntonsghost]

“You seem to think as a soon as the sperm meets the ova it is alive in the sense of a baby.”
It is alive ,it is growing and a potential baby.If nature takes its rightful course it will grow into a fully grown baby. You were once in that position. To destroy a growing baby is evil- whatever stage of development it is in.
Miscarriages can happen in the the early stages of growth and the mother will certainly grieve for the unborn creation,whatever age.

[Siderite]

It’s alive in the sense of a multicellular organism, with self-replication. Not in the sense of a baby, with sentience and emotions.

Of course miscarriages will cause grief, because the mother wants to be a mother and is distraught at the thought of not being one and not meeting the baby after development. This doesn’t change it for others or make a zygote or fetus become an actual baby after a few weeks of gestation.

[Deereyme66]

Not sure why you’re surprised Bpg has wheeled in Holocaust comparisons Siderite. It’s on par with a lot of his other notions around Covid restrictions, ‘great re-set’, Marxist’s taking over the world, etc.

[Siderite]

I am not so much surprised, more appalled. :-)

[Gurnelista]

Me2.

It’s near enough impossible to debate anything serious on social media, particularly with religious dogmatists and their pick n mix choices from the Old Testament. Really, many would be happier living in the middle ages.

This link sets out the rational (i.e. non-religious) arguments about choice and lack of it….

https://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/abortion/mother/for_1.shtml

[Deereyme66]

Well, Bpg and JI can rejoice àll they like, it’s not happening in the UK any time soon and hopefully not in my lifetime. Now that is worthy of rejoicing. And you know what? If religious right wingers can’t handle living in a country that upholds a woman’s right to choose, that welcomes same sex marriage, etc, maybe consider relocating to one of those US states where you might feel less threatened? It’s a serious proposition, plenty more Trumpian rulings to come now he’s rigged the Supreme Court. ‘Ooh heaven is a place on earth…’

[Iron-awe]

Will be interesting to see how the mid terms work out for the Republicans after this ruling, traditionally the party running the White House lose seats in the Congress and Senate but some current opinion polling in the USA suggest there will be a backlash from the voters and Democrats could win enough seats particularly in the Senate to get some of their agenda through in their last two years in office before the next Presidential election. This of course would be beneficial to the country as the Republicans tend to block most attempted progress by the White House in tit for tat politics. Never have agreed with the two Senators per State rule in the US, how can that be a fair and honest way to represent the population when the State demographics are way out?

[Just Iron]

‘Well, Bpg and JI can rejoice àll they like, it’s not happening in the UK any time soon and hopefully not in my lifetime.’

A genuine question, Deerey. Have you understood what happened over there? There was no ban on abortions. There was not even a statement from the Supreme Court on the criteria or morality of abortion. The ruling was on the Constitutional issue of whether the 1973 ruling was a correct interpretation of the US Constitution. ‘It’ couldn’t happen in the UK because we don’t have States founded with a legitimate measure of autonomy.

[Siderite]

I find that rather moot, when we know the motivation. Those same people arguing that it is actually about state rights denied gun laws to be state based, so I am not convinced by their dedication to constitutional legalities. :-)

[Deereyme66]

What’s that JI, have I understood what’s happened in the US? Yes I have. But have you my friend?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/24/abortion-state-laws-criminalization-roe/

Do you dispute what the Washington Post is saying here?

Your last point is correct though and, as I’ve previously said, I’m thankful my family aren’t based in one of those States.

[Deereyme66]

Have to say JI, I found your last post to be employing tactics uncharacteristic of your usual dignified nature. Hey ho, no one’s perfect, least of all me! Glad you ‘stumbled upon’ the non footy side again. I can well imagine posters of a certain persuasion getting a little heads up from their allies, but seriously doubt that has happened on Bru. It’s not like any of us have ever met each other is it?

[Iron-awe]

Surely non of us would be that unlucky DM 😂

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

[Deereyme66]

Maybe imagined it, I swear I’ve read numerous times, posters on Bru of a certain persuasion having publicly met each other before? Could be evil forces playing with my mind tank of course

[Deereyme66]

I’m aware that some people may not want to open that Washington Post link, so here’s a key extract just so people are clear I’m not as daft as I appear (despite efforts to undermine):

‘First, 13 states with “trigger bans,” designed to take effect if Roe were struck down, will prohibit abortion within 30 days. At least eight states banned the procedure the day the ruling was released. Several others with antiabortion laws blocked by the courts are expected to act, with lawmakers moving to activate their dormant legislation. A handful of states also have pre-Roe abortion bans that could be reactivated, and others moved immediately to introduce new legislation.’

[Deereyme66]

An up to date article from the New York Times with a list and map showing those States where abortion is now banned, planned to be or could well be soon:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/us/abortion-laws-roe-v-wade.html

[Deereyme66]

You want something barbaric / evil? Look no further than this widely reported fact:

‘While all of these laws make exceptions for the life of the mother, most do not include exceptions for rape and incest.’

[Siderite]

The “this is about state rights” excuse is a pitiful excuse to make it look legitimate in its motive. It is a clear attempt to shoehorn what they want through.

[billpuntonsghost]

“You want something barbaric/evil? Look no further than this widely reported fact:”

“While all of these laws make exceptions for the like of the mother,most do not include exceptions for rape and incest.”

Conversation between two women.
Woman1- I think women should have a choice.
Woman2-Women should have the choice to kill their own babies?
Woman1-well…I think all things should be taken into consideration on this question.
Woman2-Okay,tell me what kind of considerations would make it okay to kill a baby?
Woman1-Rape or incest.
Woman2-Let me see if I understand you correctly.This child at the side of me ,who I love dearly,was conceived through incest,in your view I could kill her.Is that right?
Woman1-(pausing)Well,I’d have mixed feelings about that.

The emotional card being played regarding rape/incest doesn’t make it right to kill the baby outside the womb,why should it be right to kill the baby inside the womb?
Why is it illegal to kill a baby conceived by incest that has been born ,yet some think you can kill the unborn baby in the womb?
Emotions run high when talking about rape/incest but one evil shouldn’t mean it is right to commit another .

[Deereyme66]

Only an anti-arbortionist could have written that hypothetical script.

’emotional card being played regarding rape/incest’. Lol, what are you saying? Rape and incest isn’t emotional? It gets worse!

[Iron-awe]

When bill starts running out of reasons to be wrong he turns into Harold Pinter these days, FFS what next!!!

1 user thanked author for this post.

Gurnelista

[Gurnelista]

Deereyme66 wrote:

Maybe imagined it, I swear I’ve read numerous times, posters on Bru of a certain persuasion having publicly met each other before? Could be evil forces playing with my mind tank of course

Particularly the doppelgangers…

1 user thanked author for this post.

Iron-awe

[Iron-awe]

Must be weird giving yourself the dodgy handshake and saying ” pleased to meet ya “.

[Deereyme66]

Don’t believe that myself, apart from two trolls who were clearly the same person.

What I do find intriguing is that two self identified Christians with deep right wing leanings on here have stated they’ve met in person before, and another self identified Christian who promoted UKIP / Brexit on here recently said on the footy side that he’d met another notorious right winger who used to post on here in person too.

Given the Bru connection, I can well imagine some their conversations were around the need to ally on here. The biggest irony being of course that a handful of posters with left leaning / liberal tendencies were accused of being in some fictional cabal called the FORUM 6, despite never once meeting each or having separate direct mail conversations, as far as I know anyway.

Just goes to show doesn’t it!

[Northumbiron]

Anyway back on topic I stumbled across this on that, there t’internet: –

Life begins at birth, with the first breath (Gen 2:7). Foetuses are not persons (Ex 21:22-25). Foetuses should aborted as proof of adultery (Numbers 5:11-31). Life is not sacred (Deuteronomy 28:18-24). God will rip open the pregnant mothers to be (Kings 8:12). Israelite King Menahem ripped open pregnant women (2 Kings 15:16). God will kill unborn foetuses in utero (Hosea 9:10-16). God will dash infants in pieces and rip open pregnant women (Hosea 13:16).

Weird geezer, that God bloke.

[billpuntonsghost]

ROMANS CHAPTER 1 v 21:22
For although they knew God,they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him,but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.Although they claimed to be wise,they became fools.

GENESIS CHAPTER 2:7
Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life,and the man became a living being.
NI POST:
Fool speaking “LIFE BEGINS AT BIRTH WITH THE FIRST BREATH. (Gen 2:7 ??????)

The Fool distorts all the biblical verses,quoted by NI,claiming them to be true!
But hey,all fools together ,will prefer to believe false words rather than the truth(that scripture reveals).

[Northumbiron]

Just a cut and paste bpg. Others can do the analysis. Man being formed from dust???

But with so much murder and mutilation in its pages don’t you think it may have been written my mortal men with a desire to control women?

[Deereyme66]

‘hey,all fools together,will prefer to believe false words rather than the truth(that scripture reveals).’

As far as I can see, they prefer to believe fiction. I don’t have a problem with that, but I do when they try and claim it as truth and demand that modern societies base laws on it.

[Iron-awe]

Unbelievable in 2022 that a fairy story from 2000 years ago can control so many modern day minds. That’s what I find weird NI.

[billpuntonsghost]

Why is Jesus Christ the most famous man who has ever lived?
Why do billions of people follow Him and worship Him?
You find it weird ,Iron-awe?
Have you seriously read the Bible?
There’s your answer.
Read the Book of John for starters and ask the question to yourself-“Who was Jesus Christ”? The answer could change your life.

[Author]

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