Punching upwards?

[Gurnelista]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2eeeep0npo

Surprised this hasn’t happened before.
Aren’t these the ones who have really taken control away from people and wrecked lives, families, businesses and the country?

[Just Iron]

Good article, Gurney. Yes ..its a sordid business and what happened was pretty inevitable given the level of suffering so many vulnerable and desperate people have been subjected to. And for what? Maxise the profit margin! A tragedy for this guys family but its brought the pathology of healthcare provision right to the forefront.

[64]

unfortunately many in UK crave to destroy the NHS as they’ve been gaslit about it’s failings and become obsessed with tax cuts

[Gurnelista]

Just like with Brexit.

[Just Iron]

Better to keep on topic Gurney. It was a good observation
You blew a gasket when I said Brexit wasn’t all about the dosh and we’d need several years to fully assess. I’m looking at France. I’m looking at Germany. I’m looking at Italy..and Hungary ..and Poland ..and .. I’m still happy with my perspective.

[Siderite]

I think the lack of highlighting Brexit at all at the last election covers the previous government’s assessment and overall public perspective though. If it was such a positive I think they’d have highlighted it in their campaigning, instead of dropping it like a hot potato.

[Just Iron]

I don’t see anything but ‘ the jury’s out’ in my post, Sidey .. rather than touting positivity in any direction. It could also be that the country in general has moved on somewhat except for the committed few.

[Siderite]

I don’t think people are obsessing over it, by and large. It was a big event though, and if it was a success, I think it would have been brought up as a Tory feather in the cap back in May-July. I think the overall perception is that it didn’t really bring tangible benefits to people’s lives, but equally few want to stir it up again with talks of rejoining the EU, single or customs markets because that too would be a fraught, drawn out process in itself.

[Gurnelista]

No ‘jury’s out’ at all. Verdict’s been in for a while. People think it was a mistake.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-poll/

You have to understand Labour’s strategy. If they’d talked about rejoining, it would have forced the Tories fight the election defending Brexit. But, health and the economy are voters’ main concerns, as we saw.

There will likely be a conversation about rejoining towards the next election.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Northumbiron

[Just Iron]

Entitled to your opinion as ever ..but that’s a pretty inconclusive poll, especially given recent developments since last Spring.
As I stated in the ‘big discussion’…. I’m with you on strengthening trade which I suspect ‘informs’ those polls. But its not all about the dosh. Centralisation of power to unelected and distant bureaucrats, imposition of homogenous cultural norms etc are still underlying grievances. The chaos in France, the deindustrialisation of Germany, the violence in Sweden, the cultural conservatism of the East.. its all yet to fully play out and may prove terminal for the EU sooner than we think. On the other hand ..unless the UKs current administration gets its act together we may find that the EU wouldn’t touch us with a barge pole :)

[Deereyme66]

‘unless the UKs current administration gets its act together we may find that the EU wouldn’t touch us with a barge pole’

Remind me how long the Tories were governing for? And you expect the new government to sort out their mess within months? Laughable

1 user thanked author for this post.

Northumbiron

[Northumbiron]

I don’t know you talk to JI, but if you’re like me most of the company you keep is of a similar political leaning to yourself (which is why you keep company with them in the first place). So I guess you hear what you want to hear.

I’m a member of the European Movement and I can tell you that the issue may have moved to the back boiler but it’s still bubbling away there.

[Siderite]

I think there’s enough evidence that the wider public don’t see Brexit as a great success, but like you say, echo chambers are a thing. I don’t think the wider public are so vested in reigniting the issue as the European Movement.

[Heath]

“trade which I suspect ‘informs’ those polls”.

Your “perspective” is way off target if you think trade is the main reason.

[Northumbiron]

You’re probably right Sidey. But it’s more than likely that the things that concern them more have been made worse by the “B” word.

[Just Iron]

Heath wrote:

“trade which I suspect ‘informs’ those polls”.

Your “perspective” is way off target if you think trade is the main reason.

I do think that it’s the dosh, Heath ie the perception that we’ve sacrificed trade benefits. I’m curious as to what you think would fuel a drive to re entry outside of that?

[Just Iron]

NI .. its a fair warning you give regarding keeping company only with those of a similar persuasion. I definitely try not to … probably why some of my friends struggle with my ‘opinions.’ To be honest ..I’m yet to find a ‘bubble’ that I don’t feel like bursting :)

[Just Iron]

Deerey … I definitely wasnt defending the Tories or suggesting that Labour should have solved inherited problems in a few short months… if I had then maybe ‘scornful laughter ‘ would be appropriate. I didn’t vote for the Tories myself. I was referring to the fact .. which may be in dispute .. that the last few months have seen the new Government struggle with a fair number of issues which were not passed on by the Tories. Hence the recent initiative to re set the values, direction and priorities.

[Heath]

It’s because they have twigged that they were lied to. Brexit ended free movement from the EU, but immigration has gone up and living standards have gone down.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/12/majority-of-brexit-voters-would-accept-free–to-access-single-market-uk-eu?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

[Just Iron]

I can’t open the article ..says its out of date. Immigration is certainly a hot topic ..so if rejoining the EU was seen as a means to reduce it then maybe that would convince many. Seems a bit far fetched to me and …as you say … declining living standards are never far from public consciousness.

[Heath]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/12/majority-of-brexit-voters-would-accept-free-movement-to-access-single-market-uk-eu?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

1 user thanked author for this post.

Just Iron

[Just Iron]

A really interesting article. Special trading terms in exchange for free movement would surely have to be attractive. Not sure that the ‘political class’ will buy it but not surprised that large numbers see it as the best of both worlds ie trade, security, free movement and retention of national sovereignty. Win Win.

[Siderite]

I am not sure if the ‘Brexit hardcore’ politicians and pundits would like it and would say it ‘betrays the will of the people’. Though, I agree it’s what should be aimed for.

[Deereyme66]

Just Iron wrote:

Deerey … I definitely wasnt defending the Tories or suggesting that Labour should have solved inherited problems in a few short months… if I had then maybe ‘scornful laughter ‘ would be appropriate. I didn’t vote for the Tories myself. I was referring to the fact .. which may be in dispute .. that the last few months have seen the new Government struggle with a fair number of issues which were not passed on by the Tories. Hence the recent initiative to re set the values, direction and priorities.

Okay, I don’t understand how Labour’s domestic activity and the challenges it currently faces would make the UK rejoining the EU less appealing to the EU. Not that I think that would happen for a generation or two anyway

[64]

Most of the governments difficulties have been culture war and Westminster trivia BS,Not to say Keith isn’t a complete twat who loves Westminster and power more than anything else . It’s what most of our political discourse is about anyway, a few journalists in the Westminster pack all pally with politicians being used a spokespeople. I kind of admire GB News in this sense as they don’t pretend to be impartial in the grand scheme, they’re anti Labour and being nice to people and nothing else matters to them. It’s all to cozy and Keith is part of that Westminster clique.
as for putting EU off? kicking British farmers is a plus for the EU surely?

[Just Iron]

Maybe a country encountering huge economic and social difficulties wouldn’t actually make re entry to the EU more problematic. Maybe.

[64]

Billions in membership fees due to our economic power and size will outway any fiscal rules

[Gurnelista]

I think if that were true, the most economically powerful members of the EU would all be wanting out. They aren’t, save a few far right parties who like to punch down and blame everything on immigration.

Heath’s article well summarises the arguments put forward by remain in 2016, which were cheerfully slapped down by ‘leave’ under the banner of ‘take back control’, whatever that meant. All that rubbish spouted on Bru, the banners in farmers’ fields, in the tabloid press, in the Tory party and elsewhere – now see where that collective hysteria has got us, and the EU, for that matter.

As for G-beebies, I know what you mean about devil-may-care delivery of news, the problem is that most of it is just unverified hogwash designed to appeal to unthinking, half-cut couch potatoes.

PS I am sometimes a half-cut couch potato myself, but beebies still doesn’t appeal.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Heath, Northumbiron

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