Project Fear

[Just Iron]

Read my post again Gurney. No tantrums or rage in sight. Your lengthy post, peppered with insults and misrepresentations, simply serves to remind me why it’s so unrewarding participating once you show up. You seem to be especially narked when posters of different perspectives show a modicum of respect and courtesy. An example of your flawed approach … your assumption of my support for the Bishops in the Lords. If you weren’t the most ideologically ‘possessed’ contributor on Bru we could maybe have some decent exchanges but when you’re an ideologue there’s no room for the other.’ As I once said … when you get your revolution I sure as hell hope that you’re not MY inquisitor.

[Gurnelista]

Once again, for the wilfully myopic unjustiron… I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.

Rewind to 2014 and the run up to the election. The political right decided something had to be done to assuage public anger over austerity. The government and their cheerleaders in the Telegraph, Mail, Express and Sun couldn’t accuse the party they had helped elect of political failure, and blaming Labour was a non-runner – it was too long ago. So instead, they chose something else, something which had been around for ages, but nobody had been really bothered about – the EU – allied with that familiar old canard, immigrants.

Previously, UKIP had been a very minor party of eccentrics and navel-gazers on the outermost fringes of British politics. But suddenly it was dragged into the mainstream. Things were bad because of Brussels and Jonnie Foreigner was the message. There was also Nigel Farage, who, to elderly middle-England seemed respectable, plausible and patriotic. And suddenly it also began to attract huge swathes of hooligans and loonies who were prepared to believe anything he said, no matter how outrageous, if it was simply expressed and validated their prejudices.

Of course, many saw that complaining about EU membership over and above all the other economic and social problems of the time, was a bit like complaining about flies in the room when the roof was on fire. But others did not and the trick worked, due to press support and co-ordinated campaigns on social media. We even saw some of it here. Remember all those stories from Les and the jonnies about the Turkish ‘invasion’, about immigrants in general, much of it coming from those who might know something about justice, but very little about injustice. Big Jobby, BI and his ‘expert’ climate denier chum (haha!), the glamour-puss avatar in shades, and of course Les and the jonnies! It was a mad old time, when truth and experts ceased to matter.

In a disorienting climate of fake posts about fake stories by fake identities, racism came to be officially tolerated. Demonstrative patriotism was “in”, a very un-British thing, which recalled the fascism of the 1930s, with flags in people’s back yards, and the chant of “Ingerlund, Ingerlund” shouting down any arguments to the contrary. The union flag was even on display in the supermarkets, on your cornflakes, on your cheese and pie wrappers. Once, I was looking for some suppositories, but to my immense chagrin I couldn’t find a packet bearing the flag of St George. Imagine my shock and horror, as I explained to the chemist in Asda “I don’t want any foreign muck going up there!”

And meanwhile, those responsible for all this nonsense were smugly smirking at those dummies who keenly sucked it all up, and the Tories were forced to offer a referendum, which managed to reduce the defections to UKIP, but resulted in Cam’s resignation.

Yet, seven years on, we see the right was wrong. Trump, Johnson and Farage were always the charlatans they were said to be. Full of lies and self-promotion, these modern day Hitlers, Mosleys and their supporters told you to deny the evidence of your own eyes and ears in a bid to hold on to power. They knew that many wanted to believe their stories, no matter how outlandish, including you JI, simply because they confirmed their prejudices and didn’t challenge the status quo.

Well, it’s all over now. Most have woken up, and the real issues of climate and the environment, the rights of women, children, blacks, the disabled, concerns about inequality, low pay and foodbanks, the injustice of unaffordable housing, pathetic pensions, and deteriorating standards of health care, are the social and economic issues of our time which people are gradually becoming more clear-sighted and concerned about, as a new politics is starting to take hold.

30 years to make up your mind? Think again. There’s no point having a mind if you never change it.

[Just Iron]

Could have saved you time, Gurney. I KNOW that you have a perspective. Ideologically bound as it is I KNOW that there is validity in some of it. My point is that in your rigidity you can’t stay courteous. It’s a bit like the Englishman on holiday who thinks he’ll be understood by shouting louder.

[Iron-awe]

Good you speak up a bit please JI.

[Just Iron]

WHAT YOU SAY??!!

[Iron-awe]

Just Iron wrote:

WHAT YOU SAY??!!

Are you practising ” Hit the road Jack ” for a karaoke session JI.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Just Iron

[Northumbiron]

To be fair to Gurney, I’ve read his last post several times and can’t find any personal insults or misrepresentations in it.

In fact I’d say it’s a pretty good synopsis on the course of events since a referendum was first mooted.

But I would say that, wouldn’t I?

[billpuntonsghost]

To be fair to Gurney,his neo- Marxist atheistic views have been well established in most of his posts. His “ Wolfie smith” attitude to life ( even though his views and ideology led to untold misery in the 20th century) ,this will be a drop in the ocean as the 21st century unfolds. They claim to be wise but they became fools is a perfect description for Gurney ,made by someone in authority.

[Siderite]

Yawn.

We do face problems which may affect life, such as climate change, food shortages etc. No doubt you’ll put this down to Marxism.

[Just Iron]

NI said : To be fair to Gurney, I’ve read his last post several times and can’t find any personal insults or misrepresentations in it’

Re read the opening statement then NI. Epitomises the kind of condescending and insulting statements that litter Gurneys posts. If you don’t agree with him then …because his perspective is self evidently right … then you must be either dim or wicked.

Nauseating.

[Siderite]

I do think Gurny does come across as patronising. Some of his points are very valid, but he doesn’t seem to see the human on the other side as being of equal agency.

[billpuntonsghost]

Once you declare what is good is evil and what is evil is good, celebrate this, and indoctrinate and try and educate the youth to these ideas,the outcome will be chaos,misery and despair. Rebellion against the word of God,God’s law and a “Christian worldview” is being unleashed on society. There is an answer to this,let’s pray there is another “great awakening “.

[Siderite]

Yawn

[Northumbiron]

Was that you ranting and raving on Northumberland Street in Newcastle yesterday BPG?

[Northumbiron]

Here’s a snippet from that Marxist newspaper outlining some of those Brexit benefits.

It’ll all be fine by 2053!

https://amp.theguardian.com/money/2022/jul/30/brexit-uk-shoppers-pay-more-eu-zara-ikea-decathlon

[Deereyme66]

billpuntonsghost wrote:

….think you’ll find the Biden administration is trying to fight the saving of millions of innocent babies lives ,due to the recent overturning of roe v wade.
The neo-Marxist regime will not stop there, misery and chaos will be the outcome, unfortunately.

I’m actually quite surprised you liked ‘thanked’ that post JI. Come on man, get real

[Deereyme66]

Just catching up after being away. Tbh JI, I think both you and Gurney are ideologues.

[Deereyme66]

‘The neo-Marxist regime will not stop there, misery and chaos will be the outcome, unfortunately.’

No offence intended Bpg, but personally i find that claim ridiculous

[Northumbiron]

BPG doesn’t know the meaning of the term “Marxist”.

But if it makes him happy then who are we to criticise?

[Siderite]

Marxists have a lot more in common with BPG than he likes to admit. Both Marxists and Christian theocrats are obsessed with moral purity for their cause and their proponents have interfered with how the population live their lives, in accordance with their ideology. Ironically, both accuse the moderate of enabling the other.

[Just Iron]

Deerey said :‘I’m actually quite surprised you liked ‘thanked’ that post JI. Come on man, get real.’

I know it’s a hot topic, Deerey but I’ve never hidden my views so your surprise is a bit puzzling. I believe that it’s very real to advocate for the 40 million unborn in the world each year who never live to see the light of day, 200,000 plus year on year in the UK, 60 million in the US since 1973 and 9 million in the UK since the late 60s. If they are just pieces of tissue or embryos or foetuses or something else that denies an emerging human being then I can rest easy. But I don’t believe that .. so I can’t.

[Siderite]

You don’t think the unborn are embryos, zygotes or foetuses? That is ridiculous, no matter what the opinion is on the issue.

[Just Iron]

On the matter of me and Gurney both being ideologues I think I can see where you are coming from but think you are mistaken. I definitely have clear and strong views … as does Gurney… but dispute that I am uncompromising and dogmatic to an unhealthy degree as I think he is. I try to see the others point of view and aim to keep it civil even when I disagree whilst, despite my best efforts, I’ve never been able to win Gurney over to the same approach. If your definition of an ideologue is simply someone with the courage of their convictions .. which I don’t ..then I would be guilty as charged.

[Just Iron]

Siderite said : ‘You don’t think the unborn are embryos, zygotes or foetuses? That is ridiculous, no matter what the opinion is on the issue.’

Hi Siderite … first time in direct conversation with you. If you look again you’ll see that I didn’t deny that they are any of the above. What I did say is that they are not JUST that .. and these terms can be used to deny that they are emerging human beings. That is what I said. That is my firmly held opinion and I hope that, having explained it … even though you might disagree…. it looks less ridiculous.

[Siderite]

I don’t think anyone disagrees that any stage of pregnancy will lead to a baby. The idea that they are babies, as BPG suggested*, is nonsense and the sort of rhetoric commonly used for emotional purposes.

The problem I have is that Christian ‘pro-lifers’ don’t give one hoot about life after birth, as all their decisions suggest (speaking as a generalisation), and they consider something with no sentience to be far more worth than the woman, as seen with the ridiculous attacks on women’s freedoms in recent months. No care whatsoever about that from the moralists who love preaching to others about their self-righteousness.

*An understandable argument from ideologues who want to frame it as murder. Acknowledging the fact that they are not babies makes the murder charge seem far more hollow. And, frankly, all claims to reasonable discourse on this is impossible from the pro-life side until they let the ridiculous murder charge slide. No-one sees it as impressive when murder, or even Holocaust, analogies are wheeled out. It just makes us roll eyes and think of ideological nutters who should be ignored. Rightfully so, outside of countries with theocratic impulses.

[Just Iron]

It’s definitely an emotional subject, Siderite so terms like ‘murder’ may well tend to inflame … as might repetitions of ‘ridiculous’ if you don’t like the argument.
I’d like to ask if it just Christian pro lifers that you have problems with … Or all pro lifers? And also whether you are sure that there is no ongoing care and concern from Christian groups and charities who take a pro life stance. I support a Christian charity that is definitely pro life yet also offers a range of services and resources to support mothers and children … and offers therapeutic counselling to the many women ( and some men) who come to find relief from pained consciences after an abortion which, in some cases, have plagued them for years. It is not the only Christian charity I know of which does the same. Maybe they are rare exceptions to your rule … but I don’t think so.

[Deereyme66]

A thing I find quite puzzling JI is that I appreciate you, bpg and others on here and millions of others champion someone like Donald Trump because you side with his political views, when the man is clearly very unintelligent. I’ve got that right haven’t I? Seem to recall you intimating Trump was your preferred POTUS in the past. Kind of what I’m getting at about you being an ideologue; prepared to accept a thicko with dodgy views because he has some views that correlate with your own?

[Deereyme66]

I’d also like to say, I think this is a good discussion

2 users thanked author for this post.

Iron-awe, Just Iron

[Just Iron]

I’ve got drawn in again, Deerey .. I should go to bed.
First .. there’s much that can be truthfully said to be negative about Trump’s character and presentation. No dispute from me. Having said that I actually don’t agree with you regarding his intelligence.
In terms of my comment at the time of the last election it was definitely a comment regarding a stark directional choice the US electorate was facing. Yes … the abortion issue would be one that would influence me greatly for the reasons outlined above… as well as other policy issues which concerned me from the Democratic Party. They may be wrong .. but I think the millions who have tasted this new direction and who reject it in the upcoming midterms will bear testimony that many have come to share my concerns.
If I had my way I would probably hope for Trump to endorse one of the several very able potential candidates for the 2024 election and not run again. Let’s see.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

[Deereyme66]

Okay JI, but I think you’ll find there’s plenty of empirical evidence out there to prove that Trump’s a grade A thicko. To be continued I guess. Anyway, genuinely pleased you’re contributing more consistently on here again. It’s good to talk 😀👍

1 user thanked author for this post.

Just Iron

[Author]

Posts