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I don’t think Bru should have been allowed to be used as a UKIP marketing tool. Expressing one’s opinion is one thing, requesting others to become UKIP canvassers is quite another. It’s ethically wrong in my opinion.
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‘No matter how you slice it, the problems warned about have come to fruition.’
Agreed Siderite, and those potential problems made total sense to a lot of us. They were just more realistic than much of the protectionist and breast beating rhetoric that came out of the Leave campaign. I suppose Leavers would still say Remainers were fearful snowflakes, but say you apply their logic to operating a business, you’re not going to succeed taking huge risks all the time and ignoring external factors. This is what Brexit means if you ask me. Doomed to fail.
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Can’t see any ‘sunlit meadows’ here. Just a long line of lorries.
This is Brexit pic.twitter.com/ZHZ6299mbQ
— Led By Donkeys (@ByDonkeys) July 24, 2022
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Probably all those bloody foreigners coming over here and taking our jobs!
Well they’ve gone now, and guess what? We haven’t got the staff to do those jobs in hospitality, building and agriculture etc.
So hey, let’s get them back over to work in the bars, restaurants, fruit farms and building sites. Only they won’t, because they’ll need a permit costing from £625 to £1,423. Then pay the healthcare surcharge (usually £624 per year). Then they’ll need to support themselves when they arrive in the UK. So need to have at least £1,270 available before they even start, probably on minimum wage.
Why’s that restaurant only open four days a week? Aren’t strawberries expensive? The builders can’t come round to fix my roof for another ten months!
I know! Let’s blame Covid.
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Ok. Since you asked in what seems to be a reasonably courteous way, NI … here are a couple of thoughts. First I was stretched at the time of the referendum trying to weigh the likely economic kickback for the UK against my own preference for decentralised government and nation state sovereignty… seeing this as more democratic. Despite all the assumptions of the previous poster I actually voted, albeit hesitantly, to remain. Once the result was announced I recognised that I was actually relieved at the outcome and have continued to be positive about the vote to leave. From this you might see that I won’t defend my view on the basis of economic benefit. What I would observe, though, is threefold.
1. The present economic ills affecting the UK are not all down to Brexit.
2. The discussion above should also take account of the state of many countries in the EU both economically, socially and politically .. as well as the whole EU project itself.
3. It’s very early days to make a genuine assessment. Let’s have another look in ten or thirty years before we draw confident conclusions.
That’s a thumbnail sketch of my thinking.1 user thanked author for this post.
Thanks JI for your response, I guess your right about long term we will have to wait and see and certainly in ten years we might have a better picture of how things are, as for thirty years then I guess you and I won’t be around anyway. As for myself I read about the struggles of some of our fishermen trying to move their products and failing due to red tape but that is a result of leaving the EU not the fact that the EU are deliberately inventing new problems just for us, we left the single market and the Government knew there would be problems but they never properly addressed them when sorting out a deal. In all my forty years as a professional lorry driver I never once encountered a 3000 strong lorry park on the M25 due to queuing for crossing to France at Dover and after being told leaving the EU would give us back control I believe this incident shows that we haven’t. Maybe these are all things that resolve in time but the constant chaos for travellers, fishermen, farmers and business in general in now dealing with the EU is wearing very thin for a lot of the population. We are where we are and we won’t be rejoining anytime soon but I believe leaving the EU will be a long painful transition for a lot of our citizens and I honestly think our leave politicians knew this buy still pushed ahead regardless. The lack of honesty has been appalling IMO.
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The thing I worry about, IA, is that we have lost so much money already, so how long will we recover for any parity? Alongside this, how do we solve the heavy logistical issues (which also play to costs) from queues to red tape? This will mean those in government acknowledging they can do something about it, which may mean closer ties with the EU, but that would anger a section of the public and there would be many willing to portray this as Brexit betrayal for political purposes to the detriment of the country.
For things to get better there needs to be an honest assessment of what can be done, but so many don’t want to do that, because it would mean acknowledging Brexit isn’t sunlit uplands and critics had a point. It’s still politically lucrative for the Farages and ERG to sound off about problems being the fault of saboteurs and the EU, so they will use this over doing something for the good of the country.
And, for balance, there are many in the FBPE remain camp who have deluded themselves into thinking we can just rejoin the EU at the drop of a hat, so please don’t think I am being one sided.
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Don’t you think that in a world that is constantly shrinking both politically and economically, and one that shares the same environmental issues. We should be removing barriers, not putting them up?
It is just creating extra work for governments when they should be concentrating on the real problems we face today.
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Some good points raised all round in several of the above posts and I personally agree with the points raised by NI, why would you detach yourself from people you need to confer and hopefully get along with for the betterment of all. I know the leave and remain camps at times were bitterly opposed and it caused such a lot of ill feeling and upset particularly among even some family members nationwide but if the price of leaving is ten to thirty years of uncertainty then we must ask ” was it all worth it”, I still say not but it’s just my opinion.
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JI, all your post illustrates is that you can’t bear to accept you were sold a pup about Brexit. You’ve been persuaded of things that aren’t true. It’s no good having a tantrum about the comments of others on here. You know you’ve been had, and you’re raging at reality.
You comment on Brexit making the UK more democratic. The Tory party is actually making it less so. But, if you’re so concerned about democracy then why not start with the House of Lords, especially the Lords Spiritual? And, reform of the electoral system, instead of imagining it would be better to inflict economic harm on yourself and the rest of the country?
As for the state of many EU nations, socially, economically and politically, leaving the EU has put us at the bottom of all those leagues, so where is the argument that we’re better off out?
But most incredible is your comment that it’s still early days to make a genuine assessment, that it’s better to wait ten or maybe thirty years to make confident conclusions about leaving the EU! Then again you apparently voted remain but were happy leave won!! With opinions like that I’m surprised you can operate a computer, JI. Where do you get your information?
Think back and take stock for a moment. Remember how in 2014-15 the recession was biting hard. The way the government had imposed its austerity plan meant that many ordinary working folk, as well as those needing care and support – the very young, the sick and elderly – were being punished for the failings of the money markets miles away.
The Tories were losing votes to UKIP, and Cameron saw that Farage’s USP was offering a referendum on EU membership. So he chose to do likewise, believing that he’d win back ‘wobbling’ Tories, silence the far right loonies in his party, bring unity, and although it was a gamble, ‘remain’ would win. He was wrong, of course and resigned.
Then, post Brexit, we had Tory client journalists in the Telegraph, Express, Mail and Sun, all cheerleading the subsequent leaders, before each one got defenestrated by their own MP’s just months later. It seems the press were fully cognisant that Brexit would be awful, but realized the party had reached a point where success would depend on amplifying its lies & endorsing its nonsense, which it did and still does with aplomb.
Meanwhile, the crisis gets worse and worse, as do the lies, and here we are, with more and more coming to wonder why they ever supported Johnson, Trump, Farage and co., as they rage at being taken for a ride.
Really, Johnson is no more than a Benny Hill tribute act, but more dangerous. A totalitarian would argue there was no reason not to crowdfund a gibbet for him. As it is, he should just fade away into obscurity.
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…the Americans are so thankful they got rid of Trump and brought in Joe Biden ….the lurch to the left is having dire consequences!… coming here soon,unfortunately.
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….think you’ll find the Biden administration is trying to fight the saving of millions of innocent babies lives ,due to the recent overturning of roe v wade.
The neo-Marxist regime will not stop there, misery and chaos will be the outcome, unfortunately.1 user thanked author for this post.
….think you’ll find the Biden administration is trying to fight the saving of millions of innocent babies lives ,due to the recent overturning of roe v wade.
The neo-Marxist regime will not stop there, misery and chaos will be the outcome, unfortunately.Someone’s killing millions of babies? News to me. Oh, you mean embryos. Not the same thing.
Everyone who disagrees with you is a Marxist. Yawn.
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