Podcasts (not the Iron Bru)

[Siderite]

Does anyone else have a podcast or radio series they tune in to?

I recently found this and have enjoyed it so far:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decoding-the-gurus/id1531266667

Breakdowns and critiques of those held high by supporters as sages and against an establishment who is out to censor them. I try to be sceptical of those deemed totems and pariahs. Those who are pushed to be some genius who is railing against an ‘establishment’ who won’t accept their revolutionary and rational views. There’s some truth in their own criticisms, but they often expect us to swallow their ideas without thinking, and are often guilty of the behaviour they accuse the non-contrarians of.

This is not to say that the podcast is a personal attack. They don’t do that and say a lot of the criticism the gurus do get is incorrect. What I find it to be, based on the 3 episodes I have listened to, is an honest critique of arguments made by these people and they do agree with the ‘guru’ when they find reason to. They’re not childish and tribalist hit pieces. Though, some of the fans of those featured, and the featured themselves, just dismiss it as attacks.

This is what always gets me. They claim there is a sheepish consensus against them and their ideas, yet they act like their alleged dismissive and arrogant ‘establishment’ when you do so much as offer constructive criticism of their points. This podcast series goes into the detail of arguments made by them and pointing out logical fallacies and flaws. Of course people can disagree with their assessment, it should be welcomed, but it’s good to have some critique. Too often these ‘gurus’ are held up as infallible sages and anyone disagreeing has to have an agenda and can’t be sceptical in good faith.

DeereyMe might like it given what he’s said previously on topics like this, I think.

Here is the first episode with the Weinsteins (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/eric-and-bret-weinstein-a-dark-horse-gallops/id1531266667?i=1000490747424), who make many familiar rhetorical gambits when bemoaning why their hypotheses in science aren’t always taken seriously by their peers. Of course it’s because of a nefarious group in science who act like an old boy’s club, and not that their ideas have flaws. The tendency for such people to ascribe any disagreement as dubious, stubborn and arrogant (usually when others disagree with them) is both infuriating and intriguing in its psychological origin. Sometimes it’s so obvious how when people bemoan how mainstream science, or whatever, is elitist and arrogant because they have their ideas rejected it’s their own ego, and not a legitimate grievance. Yet you get these people, and their followers, refusing to entertain the possibility that they might be wrong, and it has to be the mainstream who is like this.

Of course people might say I am like this, and think highly of myself. I would counter that by saying that I am no great shakes in my mind, honestly. I am just sceptical of those who act like they are without the credibility or evidence to back it up. I may be wrong in every argument I make, but I need to have some trust in my thoughts to express my thinking and criticisms. If I am wrong, I am wrong, but I would like to know why when questioning others’ logic. These ‘gurus’ and their followers seem to get touchy whenever someone dares to disagree with their arguments, and don’t answer sceptical questions (and treat such as a conspiracy against them), which is a major red flag for my trust in them.

Anyway, enough of all that blab; does anyone else have any recommended podcasts?

[Deereyme66]

A friend of mine recommended this podcast series Siderite. Do you need an apple account though? The episode links fail for me. Daniel Dennett – takes me way back to uni and having to buy his book on Descartes for a unit. The lecturer for that was theology orientated not philosophy. Don’t remember much about the book apart from not getting on with it.

Don’t really have any podcasts or series I follow as such though I do like Rob Newman’s series. He can be a bit ‘right on’ for me but taken with a pinch of salt…

[Siderite]

Shouldn’t do. I don’t, but they do have other bases, such as spotify:

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Deereyme66

[Deereyme66]

Ah, great. I’ll give these a go. Cheers!

[Deereyme66]

Caught the latest episode of this on Sunday. ‘The Poet Laureate Has Gone to his Shed’. First one I’ve heard. I’ll be listening to more via Sounds app…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p085jg48?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

[Iron-awe]

That one isn’t about alcy by any chance DM 🤔😂

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Deereyme66

[Deereyme66]

Thankfully not!

[Deereyme66]

Just listened to the Peterson, Murray and Pageau episode Siderite. Excellent that. Very shrewd and funny. Genuine lols towards the end. Think I might be a convert! However the length of the other episodes is a bit off putting. Interesting explanation of how Peterson’s delivery fools people. Not really thought about it like that, though like many I suspect, once he stops ranting I’m fully aware of the points where he’s made illogical jumps, those points where something in my brain says ‘something’s not right back there but he was talking so fast and exuberantly i missed exactly where it was!’

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Siderite

[Deereyme66]

Should have said, listened whilst making tea, though quite why I bother listening to anything or watching good TV being an atheist is a mystery!

[Siderite]

Deereyme66 wrote:

Just listened to the Peterson, Murray and Pageau episode Siderite. Excellent that. Very shrewd and funny. Genuine lols towards the end. Think I might be a convert! However the length of the other episodes is a bit off putting. Interesting explanation of how Peterson’s delivery fools people. Not really thought about it like that, though like many I suspect, once he stops ranting I’m fully aware of the points where he’s made illogical jumps, those points where something in my brain says ‘something’s not right back there but he was talking so fast and exuberantly i missed exactly where it was!’

Not listened to that episode, but I have been impressed by the others I have done in that they do express sympathy with their subject and give credit where it’s due. They can be long, it’s not suited to binging in one go, but I don’t mind putting it on pause myself if I need a break.

Someone was recommending me One man and his shed the other day, as a matter of fact.

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Deereyme66

[Deereyme66]

Here’s a link to ‘The New Guru’s’, a similar series to the podcast. This is is actually the one a mate recommended not the one you did Siderite. Not listened but some similar themes covered. Shorter episodes. Wonder if they stole the idea from the podcast guys?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/m001g9sq?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

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Siderite

[Siderite]

Maybe inspired by. The podcast I recommended has been going longer, but the person who does the radio 4 series has featured as a guest on the one I shared, I have noticed.

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Deereyme66

[Deereyme66]

Yes, saw that too. Quite a few episodes I’ll probably listen to there. Thanks for the tip!

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Siderite

[Deereyme66]

Not a podcast but you, and others, may find this piece of interest Siderite:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/roger-waters-ukrainian-kill-list-1234604081/

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Siderite

[Iron-awe]

Roger Waters is like a geriatric version of Russell Brand, everybody’s view is a conspiracy theory but his conspiracy theories are ok. Those years of animosity with Dave Gilmour about who owns Pink Floyd and blah blah blah have really fu***d his brain over. Talented man musically but so very sad in other areas.

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Gurnelista, Deereyme66

[Iron Age]

Deereyme66 wrote:

Not a podcast but you, and others, may find this piece of interest Siderite:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/roger-waters-ukrainian-kill-list-1234604081/

As a Pink Floyd fan from the mid 60s I find his politics as odd. His relationship with the rest of the band is also odd.
Lost too many brain cells in the 60s?

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Iron-awe, Deereyme66

[Siderite]

Deereyme66 wrote:

Not a podcast but you, and others, may find this piece of interest Siderite:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/roger-waters-ukrainian-kill-list-1234604081/

Waters seems to have taken it upon himself to outdo Morrissey in the biggest arsehole in music stakes.

[Iron-awe]

Think your right Sidey and that takes some doing, bloody hell.

[Deereyme66]

During lockdowns I got into the many fantasy football shows on YouTube. Tend not to watch many nowadays but still occasionally watch Chasing Green Arrows, The Green Arrow and FPL Wire. Interesting if you’re a keen fantasy football player as long as you don’t let them start influencing your transfer and long game decision making too much. Golden rule with FPL is to play your own game I’ve found over 10 years playing it

[Deereyme66]

Siderite – Just finished the lengthy podcast on Peterson. Surely no one could disagree that what he does is art? I’m reminded of David Lynch films hearing numerous clips being analysed. In his style of delivery. That’s where the appeal, the seduction comes in I reckon. Same with Brand. And that’s fine, as subjective art. Start plying it off as some sort of truth (with the occasional ‘I might be wrong’ feeble disclaimer) and it doesn’t stack up. I can understand why many buy in to him and why many are wary or reactionary to him, particularly as he’s evidently a right wing Christian who doesn’t have a problem with those ideas but is ferocious at stamping down left wing ideas

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Siderite

[Siderite]

It’s always amusing to listen to everyone’s favourite pompous and bloviating fool, Gad Saad, get a critique. I have no idea how he can’t listen to himself and not think he’s a walking caricature:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gad-saad-oh-my-gad-its-the-saadfather/id1531266667?i=1000532608254

I mean, this is the guy who spoke of his testicular fortitude in Canadian parliament. I always feel embarrassed when colleagues give me praise, so to speak so openly about my own greatness like ‘the Gadfather’ does is just foreign to me.

[Deereyme66]

Not listened to that one yet. I did listen to the first short one on Sam Harris at the weekend (heard bits of that recording of him before). Really convincing that, according to him, 99% of his followers don’t understand him and to truly understand him they’d have to purchase his app! Brilliant! The lads did a good critique there, and hearing the start of the later interview they did with him, he seemed, understandably, unimpressed (‘you guys were shittin all over me’ – what an image!). At least he put himself forward to be interviewed – need to listen to the rest of it when I can find the time!

[Siderite]

I do like some of Harris’s stuff, to be fair, though he can demonstrate his ego. This is the problem with many of these people. I don’t disagree with everything they say, but it’s clear they think highly of themselves, so it’s nice to see a critique when they and their fans just present them as some infallible and balanced thinker. Yet their balance is often skewed.

[Deereyme66]

About half way in to the Harris interview episode. Been very civil so far and good to understand more about what he says and his reasons for it when they push back. However, getting a bit tense now they’re accusing him of being more charitable to right wingers / less charitable to the left and, thus, tribal. Have to say I’m finding his argument in defence quite flimsy and convenient

[Deereyme66]

Very good critique of Bill Maher interviewing Dawkins in this new episode:

Found it useful to watch the interview itself first. The podcast was quite an eye opener for me – hadn’t realised how much Maher was spinning a narrative and using anti-vax tropes. I’ll certainly be a bit more dilligent listening to these guru types in future. There’s definitely an art to the seduction. In retrospect Dawkins seems a bit miffed about the roads Maher goes down, and a little disappointing he fell back on an old association with him, but then he perhaps didn’t realise he had to be so vigilant with Maher?

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Siderite

[Siderite]

Shortly after naming him as on of my top 3 irritating people Rubin gets decoded:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dave-rubin-a-pointless-partisan-pundit/id1531266667?i=1000603235948

I wonder if he’s still prattling on about how Glenn Beck, Paul Joseph Watson, Stefan Molyneux and Katie Hopkins are part of a new political centre? I am pleased he’s not pretending to be a liberal anymore, at least. I think what irritated me about him was that I became more aware of him was when Corbyn had just become Labour leader and I was trying to argue with Corbynites, declaring themselves as quite centrist, that they were bad elements of the left. Corbynites were also saying those of us who called us centrist were really right wing, so when Rubin comes along claiming to be a centrist while apologising for and dressing up right wing rhetoric was incredibly frustrating.

[Just Iron]

You guys seem to have way more free time than me … I don’t listen to podcasts for example. For some reason I hooked into this thread and am intrigued by the idea of folks publically analysing the speech of ‘gurus.’ I’m definitely going to have a listen to the one on Pageau, Peterson and Murray ..and it’s not as long as some of the others I gather. I really like ALL three of these guys so it will be great to have my eyes opened ..potentially. I may even give a reflection on here if that’s ok.

[Siderite]

I think it’s obvious they have a liberal slant, but they are self-deprecating and remind it’s based on their own opinions. Also, at the end of the latest one they said they want to dig into some more left leaning ones this year (they have done some, like Contrapoints).

I am no fan of Murray or Peterson, less familiar with Pageau. However, they both have more for them than a shallow and smug prat like Rubin. Yes, maybe harsh language, but I just don’t like the guy. I have similar opinions for lefties and centrists who irritate me, and I will be as fair as possible when they are right.

As for time, I usually have it on when doing mundane work or some mundane task.

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Just Iron

[Deereyme66]

It will be interesting to hear what you think to that episode and others JI. No idea why you are asking if it’s okay to offer your opinion of it on here – it’s an open forum. There may be only really myself and Siderite commenting on it right now, but that’s just circumstantial I think. Not sure what you’ll make of the podcast – I find it hard to disagree with most of their analyses, which are primarily based on clips of the ‘guru’s’ speaking. I think they’re pretty charitable regarding Peterson, particularly how his output has helped people. The more I listen to Peterson, the more critical I am of him.

I usually listen to 30-60mins at a time of an evening rather than more TV, and whilst cooking, tidying up etc.

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Just Iron

[Deereyme66]

After listening to the first hour of the latest episode, including around 30mins covering responses to the US Dept of Energy news regarding the possibility of Covid originating in the Wuhan lab, I’m already tiring of listening to the Rubin clips. Never heard him much before, but he comes across as a shock value, demonising cretin. How anyone can take him seriously is mind boggling.

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Siderite

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