Murderous Regime

[64]

and world News channels frame killing refugees as part of a war

[Siderite]

Israel are claiming they were after terrorists. It wouldn’t be the first time those framed as innocents would be linked to terrorists who threaten Israel and its civilians. However, this is a presumption and Israel’s justifications better be right or it will be (rightfully) condemned.

[Iron Age]

Are all Palestinians terrorists?

[Siderite]

Yes, that’s what I said. Well done. *eye roll*

[Iron Age]

Siderite wrote:

Yes, that’s what I said. Well done. *eye roll*

All?
Including the Palestinians who are Christians?
Israel now has a minister who has a picture of Baruch Goldstein on his wall, but nobody can say anything for fear of being labelled as anti-Semitic because of IHRA.
That same member of the government also supports groups that want to “incinerate all Christian churches” in the Holy Land and drive Christians, as well as Muslims, out of the country, not to mention atheists.
That would put it in line with Saudi Arabia with intolerance to other faiths and creeds, and none.

[Siderite]

*sighs*. The eye roll should have given away my sarcasm.

The IHRA does not prohibit criticism of Israel by the way. Just the sort of rabid frothing that Jew haters like to say is anti-Israel. Criticising Israeli politicians, fine. Yapping about Israeli lobbies and hands of Israel being behind terror attacks, less so.

[Just Iron]

Good job so far, Sidey. Firm and balanced.
There certainly are some unsavoury characters at the table in the Knesset. The price to be paid for proportional rep in a society with such diverse interest groups.
When it boils down the driving issue is the perpetuation of the victim hood narrative amongst the folks in the W Bank, Gaza and elsewhere for over 70 years. It’s everywhere..especially in the schools .. and inevitably leads to violence. Then comes the Israeli response and the perpetuation of the problem. Someone doesn’t want this problem peacefully concluded and so it continues. With Israeli grandchildren and wider family I can only lament every death but be extremely grateful that the balance of power rests where it does.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Siderite

[Iron-awe]

It’s an area of the world that just doesn’t get a moment’s relief, there is always some conflict arising out of someone else’s actions, very sad and a very unsettled time for all concerned. Not sure what the solution is TBF, it’s such a complicated situation with both sides have very valid points but it’s a real shame a compromise can’t be found but alas it’s s been going on for so long and is so bitter. What hope for the children from that region, none I’m afraid.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Siderite, Just Iron

[Deereyme66]

Agree I-A, the children shouldn’t be suffering, shouldn’t be getting killed and injured. I don’t see how the latest actions of the far right Israeli pro settlement government can be justified from the numerous articles I’ve read across various British media, including The Times, FT, Guardian and Telegraph.

[Just Iron]

Deereyme66 wrote:

Agree I-A, the children shouldn’t be suffering, shouldn’t be getting killed and injured. I don’t see how the latest actions of the far right Israeli pro settlement government can be justified from the numerous articles I’ve read across various British media, including The Times, FT, Guardian and Telegraph.

… and you have the ‘intel’ to know what was being planned, what weaponry had accumulated and the likely price that Israeli citizens would pay if no action was taken.
As I write Jeremy Bowen is interviewing on the Beeb and the angry young interviewee is reiterating the mantra that only the destruction of Israel is an acceptable outcome. I want a peaceful solution .. failing that I want loved ones protected from those who would go to any lengths to achieve their goals. If anyone thins that Israel showed no restraint, as I’m hearing, then they have no idea of the resources at their disposal.

[Siderite]

I am not commenting on Jenin, because my knowledge isn’t full enough in my opinion. Though, I think IA and JI have made thoughtful comments here.

The whole situation is a mess and is only getting more entrenched. A two state solution is the ideal solution, so far as I can see, but that won’t happen unless there’s a huge change of course. Israel is only getting more right wing and authoritarian and are bringing in some appalling legislation. More and more, Palestinians are turning to their own sectarian outlets. Israel wouldn’t consider any kind of deal with Hamas or any Islamist group while they fire rockets and make promises to remove Jews from the land by any means necessary.

If anyone hasn’t heard of a TV show called Tomorrow’s Pioneers, I suggest they check it out. It sums up the Hamas/Islamist mindset. It was what really exposed me to the complexity of the situation and made me realise Jews in Israel are going to be wary of such groups, especially when they have power and are trying to spearhead the Palestinian cause. I won’t share the disgusting content on here, but for those interested, it was a children’s show run by Hamas’ TV channel featuring child hosts and people in animal costumes (including an anti-Semitic Mickey Mouse!) where they openly call for the destruction of Israel and death of Jews to children. It’s nothing short of brainwashing, and there are some disgusting clips, including clips of 10 year olds calling in to wipe Jews off the face of the Earth. Truly shocking, and it’s this mindset which can lead to the hate witnessed and needs stamping out in Palestinian society.

That said, I am no fan of the other side, who fan the flames. The settlers bother me, as do many of the ultra-Orthodox and extremists who seem to see themselves as superior to Palestinians, burn their homes and they both feed off and give each other justifications for violence.

[Deereyme66]

‘… and you have the ‘intel’ to know what was being planned, what weaponry had accumulated and the likely price that Israeli citizens would pay if no action was taken.’

Absolutely not. Don’t put words in to my mouth. You would benefit from exhibiting more balance yourself on this subject. You’re very much to the side of Israel.

[Deereyme66]

‘Though, I think IA and JI have made thoughtful comments here.’

My comments are thoughtful too. Or don’t they count? Save me an essay of self righteousness please. My opinion is as valid as yours.

[Deereyme66]

‘If anyone thins that Israel showed no restraint’. Who’s saying that here? Stop trying to tip the balance by exaggerating what’s being said.

[Siderite]

Deereyme66 wrote:

‘Though, I think IA and JI have made thoughtful comments here.’

My comments are thoughtful too. Or don’t they count? Save me an essay of self righteousness please. My opinion is as valid as yours.

I didn’t claim you weren’t, or that you have no right to an opinion. However, IA’s and JI’s were longer, so had more info and gave me more to think about and agree with on this occasion. So they stood out more to me, and I don’t mean that offensively. I have agreed with you and thought such on other occasions, and have probably thanked your comments more than any other user here, so I don’t know where this vitriol towards me has come from. I certainly don’t mean to be self-righteous about it and don’t know why I should have to include you in praise every time.

[Deereyme66]

I’ve no interest in being praised Siderite. It’s just telling how you’ve responded about thoughtfulness IMO. No vitriol from me, but I don’t like the way this thread has become taken over by posters who claim to be balanced on this subject but clearly are not, IMO. One only needs to look at yours and JI’s lengthy posts, that regard any Israeli action, almost as a footnote. I read numerous pieces today across a range of media, as stated, with an open mind. The conclusion I came to, I posted about. The conclusions I’ve arrived at regarding the imbalance of this thread is my opinion. I’m not going to pretend to be any kind of expert on this complex matter, and I don’t think others should either. Last word from me on this for a while.

[Just Iron]

Blimey, Deerey. I thought my ‘intel’ comment was a reasonable challenge given the strength of your post. I referenced Israeli ‘restraint’ or lack of because surely that is central to the current dispute ..it wasn’t personal to you. I don’t see the world in terms of ‘sides’. If you want an eg of someone who does …look at the title of the thread. You know how much ‘skin’ I have in this game so I feel obliged to urge people not to rush to judgment. The first job of any Governmemt is to protect its own citizens .. the Israeli Govt had better protect those I love. This ongoing tragedy shouldn’t be simplified.

[Siderite]

I mean, I have stated that I have not taken a stand on this action because I don’t have enough knowledge on this particular case. I don’t see how this is peddling an Israel is always right narrative and my comments on Israel are not meant to be a footnote. However, when that gets ignored with leading questions from IronAge, I am bound to respond in a manner which seems defensive against hyperbolae and false accusations about seeing every Palestinian being a terrorist. When people lay down that narrative, I feel the need to lay out the issues with it. If my posts are ‘lengthy essays’, I certainly don’t want to turn them into a thesis.

I miss where I said I was an expert. You say there’s no vitriol, but you seem to be taking pot shots when I haven’t done so to you.

[Iron Age]

Outside influences have a lot to answer for including Iran etc. Also American right wing Christian fundamentalists whose aim is to facilitate the second coming. (Ah, what would God do without Americans).

[Siderite]

I think you have got the wrong end of the stick a bit, DM. I didn’t think badly of your post or your right to hold it. I simply didn’t include your name because it didn’t stand out so much on this occasion. To me. If I took exception to it, I would have commented myself.

I certainly don’t get why it brought on barbed comments. I am a self-admitted opinionated gobshite, but I try not to think ill of others unless I see reason to, and I am fallible. I am certainly not better than everyone else and spend a lot of time worrying about whether I am as good a person as I aim to be. I know I am forceful with my opinion, but realise others will disagree. I put my case forward, try to accept disagreement (don’t always succeed, because I am not someone above anyone else). I may disagree with people politically, but hope I can separate that from their person*.

*With some exceptions. I don’t think I could think positively of a BNP supporter, for instance.

[Deereyme66]

Explanation accepted Siderite. You’re maybe right about me getting the wrong end of the stick. Might have been the way I read the sequence of posts. Apologies for the personal observations like ‘self righteous’ – probably exaggerated.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Just Iron, Siderite

[Just Iron]

Iron Age wrote:

Outside influences have a lot to answer for including Iran etc. Also American right wing Christian fundamentalists whose aim is to facilitate the second coming. (Ah, what would God do without Americans).

Now that has potential to widen the discussion. Any takers?

[Deereyme66]

No thanks JI. My head’s not in the right place to engage in this sort of thing this week. Peace.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Just Iron

[Siderite]

I think IA has a point, certainly regarding Iran. I don’t think it would prevent hostile attitudes, but money and resources help the likes of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad grow.

Anyway, I hope life isn’t too stressful for you right now, Deerey. All the best. :-)

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

[Just Iron]

…also from me, Deerey. Hope your week improves and pressures ease.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

[Iron-awe]

Well I’m glad everybody has kissed and made up, I was getting concerned there for a minute 😂 peace indeed DM.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

[Deereyme66]

Thanks. No stress, just a sad few weeks catching up with me I reckon, hence lashing out a little. Be reet soon enough!

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