Laws of Logic ?

[billpuntonsghost]

Ever thought where the Laws of Logic ,laws of non- contradiction come from?

[billpuntonsghost]

[Fifty Pence]

I’m sure any “debate” video posted by bpg will be suitably impartial and unbiased. But when bombarded with endless impartial and unbiased videos it’s difficult to carry on watching them

[Northumbiron]

billpuntonsghost wrote:

Ever thought where the Laws of Logic ,laws of non- contradiction come from?

Nope!

[billpuntonsghost]

If there were no human beings on Earth would the Laws of Logic still exist?

[Siderite]

Yes, but there would be no species able to interpret them (unless another intelligent species developed the ability to do so).

[Iron-awe]

billpuntonsghost wrote:

If there were no human beings on Earth would the Laws of Logic still exist?

If there were no animals on earth would the laws of the jungle still exist? Well yes because certain humans would see to that.

[billpuntonsghost]

Can I ask Siderite,do you believe in anything beyond the physical universe?

[Siderite]

Why do I get the impression that this is another tedious attempt at a gotcha by you?

I believe there could be multiverses beyond our own one. I don’t think we need to assign deities to explain logic, morality or any other phenomena, be they physical or metaphysical.

[billpuntonsghost]

Laws of Logic are abstract and immaterial,yet you claim if there were no human beings on Earth they would still exist?
How does that work out in your worldview?

[Siderite]

There is no reason to think logic would be any different if humans didn’t exist. The same outcomes of cause and effect would exist with or without us. The only difference is that there wouldn’t necessarily be a species able to interpret what logic is like humans do, with study. It really isn’t that difficult or outlandish.

[billpuntonsghost]

But that’s not the issue. You are a materialistic atheist who does not believe in anything beyond the physical universe ( correct me if I’m wrong) Laws of Logic are not matter,but you claim they exist ,even if no human beings exist?

[Siderite]

Being an atheist doesn’t mean you don’t think that concepts like logic aren’t a thing, deary me. The existence of philosophical concepts like logic, and understanding the ability to reason, can be documented with evidence to back it up and it would still exist with or without humans.

[Northumbiron]

If a tree falls down in the middle of the forest and there’s no one around to hear it, does it still make a sound?

It’s the same argument Theists love to make. Life after death. Can’t be proved or disproved because no one comes back from the dead to confirm it.

Natural sciences will still be around long after were gone.

Instead of trying to quantify your life why not just get on with living it?

[billpuntonsghost]

I will answer your last post later, BUT you didn’t reply to my last post with any response?

[Northumbiron]

Yes I did.

[billpuntonsghost]

I was posting to Siderite and he didn’t give a reply to the actual question.

[Siderite]

I have answered that question more than once already. The existence of humans doesn’t make laws of logic change, we just have the ability to interpret it fully. Logic as a concept being not material in nature does not make it a redundant concept, since there is evidence for abilities to reason. It’s not complicated and this is rather tedious.

[billpuntonsghost]

You are a materialistic atheist who does not believe in anything beyond the physical universe,yet you believe in abstract immaterial universal laws of Logic.You need to think this through.

[Siderite]

I don’t think you’re able to grasp mine or other atheists’ positions, frankly. The disbelief in religion does not mean atheists think that concepts outside of physical phenomena, like logic, have no use. Nor do they need a deity to explain them.

The ability to reason clearly exists and is demonstrated by humans, along with other creatures. The fact that it exists does not invalidate atheism or prove God.

[Northumbiron]

Perhaps a more interesting question would be “If there were no human beings on earth would God exist?”

[Gurnelista]

No, because ‘he’ is man-made. He exists between people’s ears.

[billpuntonsghost]

BPG- if there were no human beings on Earth would the laws of Logic exist?
Siderite- Yes,but there would be no species able to interpret them.
Where would they exist? You claim there isn’t anything beyond the physical universe.

[Siderite]

Good grief. The laws of logic exist as they do now. We don’t need to jump to God because they’re philosophical concepts which can be understood by the mind and study.

I have sympathy with the argument that God gave us the ability to use logic and reason. That’s a reasonable standpoint for faith, in my opinion. I don’t have any sympathy with the nonsense that without faith such concepts cannot make sense.

[billpuntonsghost]

Logical reasoning is possible because biblical revelation is true.You as a materialistic atheist can reason,but within your own worldview you cannot account for your ability to reason.

[billpuntonsghost]

You can say ,I can reason just fine,I don’t believe in the Bible.But this is the same mistake as someone who’s a critic of air saying “ of course air isn’t necessary to breathe, because I don’t believe in air and I can breathe just fine.”

[billpuntonsghost]

No one is suggesting BELIEF in air is necessary to breath,but rather the FACT of air.likewise,no one is suggesting that professing belief in the Bible is necessary to use logic,but rather the Bible must be factual in order for use of logic to be reasonable.

[Deereyme66]

billpuntonsghost wrote:

You can say ,I can reason just fine,I don’t believe in the Bible.But this is the same mistake as someone who’s a critic of air saying “ of course air isn’t necessary to breathe, because I don’t believe in air and I can breathe just fine.”

With respect, that’s a lame analogy bpg. Lol, are these critics of air the 90% of fans you’ve surveyed who’ve never heard of Bru?

[Siderite]

One problem. If you don’t believe in oxygen in the air for breathing, the oxygen still exists. If you don’t believe in God or Christianity, logical decisions still make reasoned sense (we don’t need to say therefore God when making logical deductions or in studying logic). God and the Bible are therefore a superfluous explanation for the existence of logic.

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Deereyme66

[Deereyme66]

billpuntonsghost wrote:

No one is suggesting BELIEF in air is necessary to breath,but rather the FACT of air.likewise,no one is suggesting that professing belief in the Bible is necessary to use logic,but rather the Bible must be factual in order for use of logic to be reasonable.

I don’t really believe in Hilton and Dean but it’s a fact they’re at the club so I have to get on with it. Shouldn’t stop.me from being critical though.

[Author]

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