Iron Bru › Forums › Non Football › Is this what happens when the word “Woke” is used in the pejorative?
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October 1, 2023 at 12:58 pm #274237October 1, 2023 at 2:01 pm #274238
What has happened?
October 1, 2023 at 2:04 pm #274239Not got The Guardian app then JI?
October 1, 2023 at 6:49 pm #274244Just look at the chaos and misery Marxism inflicted on the world in the 20th Century.
The Woke ( cultural Marxism) of the 21st century will make the Marxism of the 20th century seem like the good times – even though it led to the deaths of over 100 million people. The Woolfie Smiths of this world will not give up their proven false ideology.October 1, 2023 at 6:59 pm #274245That’s as mad as a box of frogs.
October 1, 2023 at 8:23 pm #274247Just look at the chaos and misery Marxism inflicted on the world in the 20th Century.
The Woke ( cultural Marxism) of the 21st century will make the Marxism of the 20th century seem like the good times – even though it led to the deaths of over 100 million people. The Woolfie Smiths of this world will not give up their proven false ideology.Does that mean “We know things are not right, but let’s keep quiet about it eh”.
As far as I understand the word “woke” means to have become aware, to wake up. Or the Orwellian new speak as a pejorative expression.
One of them is a lie, it can’t mean both.October 2, 2023 at 9:11 am #274252Amazing words by Francis Schaeffer in 1977.
October 2, 2023 at 10:02 am #274255Read the original post.
Ward mentions history from even further back, “eugenics-based scientific standards” that “informed opinions and policies on what it meant to be included not just as fully American, but as fully human” in the US in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, subsequently influencing Nazi laws regarding race.
October 2, 2023 at 10:08 am #274256It’s another term that’s original meaning has been corrupted and is now used as an insult.
Rather like the word “Marxism”!
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October 2, 2023 at 1:49 pm #274282I just ignore people who use it, more often than not to abuse those who don’t want them to be abusive
October 2, 2023 at 1:52 pm #274284.
October 2, 2023 at 1:54 pm #274285Just look at the chaos and misery Marxism inflicted on the world in the 20th Century.
The Woke ( cultural Marxism) of the 21st century will make the Marxism of the 20th century seem like the good times – even though it led to the deaths of over 100 million people. The Woolfie Smiths of this world will not give up their proven false ideology.no offence, but do you even know what Marxism is?
what on earth does 21st century identity politics have to do with an economic / political philosophy from 175 years ago?
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October 2, 2023 at 2:03 pm #274288Jon B, take a look at the “Frankfurt School and Critical Theory”, to give you an insight into the modern Marxist ideology.
October 2, 2023 at 2:07 pm #274289I think there is an issue with group think and tribalist views among aspects of progressivism. Such tribal blindness allows questionable ideas to be supported through refusing to consider other opinions and automatic assumptions that anyone who disagrees must be a conservative. I share a dislike of conservative ideas a lot of the time, find many aspects of conservatism worrying today, but I am wary of becoming too tribal in opposing anything a conservative says or blindly supporting anything because it’s liberal coded.
There is a critique for such matters. The issue is that many who oppose such progessive over-reach don’t just want to stop the silly stuff that is more contentious, but everything liberal. Wokeness doesn’t really mean much as a result, because it’s poorly defined and could mean different things to different people. It doesn’t just mean the hyper-sensitivity to racial matters (e.g. when you have someone go on about how cultural appropriation is a plague upon society, not cultures sharing in each other’s culture) or gender ideology for some; it means opposing gay rights, women’s rights etc. Of course there will be people who disagree with such, but I am uncomfortable with the idea that the latter should be lumped in with progressive over-reach. Any meaningful critique of ‘wokeness’ has lost impact for me, because I don’t trust those who oppose it and it often seems to be just demonising of socially liberal ideas.
I lose more interest when people throw buzz words like cultural Marxism around. Ignoring the problematic origins of such terms (I do not think bpg is using it for this purpose, but there are those that still do), it just seems to be jargon aimed to sound intellectually strong, but doesn’t have much meaning behind it for many. For one, many of the people slammed as ‘cultural Marxist’ are not Marxists. I wouldn’t be surprised if bpg sees me as a ‘cultural Marxist’, yet I have no yearning for Marxism or any kind of far-left ideology. I am no fan of communism and am fully aware of the totalitarianism associated with it. I do not think we are at risk of it now either.
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October 2, 2023 at 2:18 pm #274290“Frankfurt School and Critical Theory “is something I would recommend you look into,Siderite. This isn’t a new ideology,it has been a long march in its implementation. Also the video I posted is worth a look in connection with the forces at work in modern ideas.
October 2, 2023 at 2:53 pm #274298Jon B, take a look at the “Frankfurt School and Critical Theory”, to give you an insight into the modern Marxist ideology.
Can you be more specific on what aspect of the Frankfurt school’s thinking informs “cultural Marxism” and “wokeness”? Who are the main thinkers associated with the Frankfurt School and in what way are they relevant now?
Given that the Frankfurt School first appeared in the 1920s, 100 years ago now and 72 years after the publication of the Communist Manifesto, I’m not sure any of this is at all relevant to a world after ideology.
October 2, 2023 at 2:59 pm #274303I lose more interest when people throw buzz words like cultural Marxism around. Ignoring the problematic origins of such terms (I do not think bpg is using it for this purpose, but there are those that still do), it just seems to be jargon aimed to sound intellectually strong, but doesn’t have much meaning behind it for many. For one, many of the people slammed as ‘cultural Marxist’ are not Marxists. I wouldn’t be surprised if bpg sees me as a ‘cultural Marxist’, yet I have no yearning for Marxism or any kind of far-left ideology. I am no fan of communism and am fully aware of the totalitarianism associated with it. I do not think we are at risk of it now either.
You’re right, we hear a lot of “Marxism” these days in the media depsite the fact that Marxists are powerless, disorganised, hopelessly split and widely derided politically. It’s as absurd as basing a political project around the suppsed evils of the Monster Raving Loony Party. Their vote in by elections regularly trounces those of the CPGB or one of the other Heinz57 political groupuscules on the far left.
The idea that Jeremy Corbyn- the sort of guy who plays the kindly Modern Studies teacher in a Ken Loach film- was some sort of dangerous “Marxist” and threat to British society was absolutely laughable. He was many notches to the right of Michael Foot’s manifesto of 1983, let along Attlee’s manifesto of ’45 that built the Welfare State the Tory party has been dismantling enthusiastically.
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October 2, 2023 at 3:09 pm #274305“Can you be more specific on what aspect of the Frankfurt School’s thinking informs “ cultural Marxism” and Wokeness”?
Look at “Frankfurt School and Critical Theory”(internet encyclopaedia of Philosophy)
It shows the ideology didn’t stop at its conception,but is ongoing.
Take a look ,hopefully it will help .October 2, 2023 at 3:29 pm #274308John, don’t waste your time trying to reason. All you’ll get is a video link!
October 2, 2023 at 3:51 pm #274310Not a video link! ,Northumbiron! Not on YouTube. It is an intellectual presentation on the subject. Hope you take a look.
October 2, 2023 at 3:58 pm #274312“Can you be more specific on what aspect of the Frankfurt School’s thinking informs “ cultural Marxism” and Wokeness”?
Look at “Frankfurt School and Critical Theory”(internet encyclopaedia of Philosophy)
It shows the ideology didn’t stop at its conception,but is ongoing.
Take a look ,hopefully it will help .I don’t need to, because I have read a lot by Karl Marx and have an understanding already, through education, of what the Frankfurt School is.
Can you explain the relevance of Marxism, the Frankfurt School etc to “woke” culture and what you’ve termed “Cultural Marxism”? In your own words, if you can.
I’m not trying to be a dick, I’m just trying to understand your view on the relevance of dead old men with beards to post-ideological post-digital contemporary society. I am not persuaded there is one.
October 2, 2023 at 4:23 pm #274317You don’t need to? The article is FULL of relevant information,all factual, yet you want me to put it in my own words,if I can! Come on, if you want to be blind to the FACTS and the same as others on here ,so be it. The information is there to read if you want to,but hey,like others on here,they don’t want to hear the Truth. If you do read it,the same as others,please feel free to criticise it.
October 2, 2023 at 4:32 pm #274321You don’t need to? The article is FULL of relevant information,all factual, yet you want me to put it in my own words,if I can! Come on, if you want to be blind to the FACTS and the same as others on here ,so be it. The information is there to read if you want to,but hey,like others on here,they don’t want to hear the Truth. If you do read it,the same as others,please feel free to criticise it.
Yeah- I’ve actually read the Communist Manifesto, Capital, The Condition of the Working Classes in England, I have studied Adorno & Jurgen Habermas and the Frankfurt School.
The question I am asking you is what any of the above ^^ has to do with the society we live in currently, and it’s problems.
Can you explain what that link is? (your “Frankfurt School 101” article above doesn’t really have an answer.)
October 2, 2023 at 4:32 pm #274322Told you!
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October 2, 2023 at 4:44 pm #274326Think you’re looking at the wrong article,Jon B.
Type in ,Frankfurt School and Critical Theory,THEN look for the heading,”Internet encyclopaedia of Philosophy”.This is the comprehensive presentation will give you the FACTS. Hope you find the relevant article.October 2, 2023 at 4:45 pm #274327Think you’re looking at the wrong article,Jon B.
Type in ,Frankfurt School and Critical Theory,THEN look for the heading,”Internet encyclopaedia of Philosophy”.This is the comprehensive presentation will give you the FACTS. Hope you find the relevant article.LOL (I don’t think you’ve even read your own article)
October 2, 2023 at 8:19 pm #274353Noticed a few new posters with political leanings to the left of Enoch Powell. I suspect it’s part of a neo-Marxist drive to infiltrate football fans forums. So convinced am I, I’m recording a new vid for YouTube this evening.
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October 3, 2023 at 12:59 pm #274399October 3, 2023 at 1:07 pm #274400Like I state Woke = cultural Marxism.
October 3, 2023 at 5:29 pm #274422That article only summarises how the Frankfurt School spread to universities around the world. Same can be said of other competing schools of thought and critics of it. Have you tried reading and understanding any Habermas bpg? Struggle to see how anything as intellectually challenging could be so influential. That aside, it’s quite a tenuous link to the notion of ‘woke’. And what links there are: so what?
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