is it time for 4–3-3

Iron Bru Forums Blast Furnace is it time for 4–3-3

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  • #215992
    Iron64iron64
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    Registered On: December 26, 2013
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    Having to chase the game on Sat we ended up with 4-3-3 and attacking with a bit more intent and actually pushed a team back. And based on the table the best one!?
    Having Loft, Jarvis (who has surprised me) and one of Scrimshaw/Hallam/Bunn. We would have more of a presence and a little bit of skill.
    You can have Pugh as holding midfield in front of a back four. Beeston and AN other to give little more threat breaking forward.
    Arguing for 4-4-2 is pointless we clearly have no wide men of any note.
    And 5-3-2 we just leak goals for fun

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    #215997
    cassidystashcassidystash
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    Worth a go IMO. This “we clearly have no wide men of any note” is the reason. Bunn (seldom fit) and Wilson (disappeared) look like our best option out wide but that looks unlikely to happen. Cox can’t keep picking Green and Hippo in the hope that they turn into footballers.

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    #215998
    FerriteFerrite
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    Registered On: December 23, 2013
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    Given Davis’ injury, it’s more likely this might happen now.

    #216000
    BottesfordIrons5North Lincolnshire Irons
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    Totally agree go 4-3-3 let’s set our stall out to the opposition and attack from the kick-off. But I don’t think Cox is brave enough or bright enough tactically to try it. I hope I’m wrong and he does it. Let’s face it being defensive doesn’t work because we can’t defend.

    #216003
    PaulSanfran49
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    Registered On: December 23, 2013
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    Do not understand why Cam Wilson has ‘gone’ into the wastelands ! Must be his turn I guess.

    In all his home academy games I never saw Wilson lose interest, forget his role or fail to contribute. Gets opportunities on the bench and ………..there he was gone. Yet he contributes well in his recent academy appearances.

    Give the lad a chance, certainly no worse than Hippolyte or Green ( who now has a dead leg ).

    #216007
    cassidystashcassidystash
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    Give the lad a chance, certainly no worse than Hippolyte or Green ( who now has a dead leg ).

    So an improvement on the 2 he usually has.

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    #216013
    cliffbyrnesrightpegCliff Byrne’s Right Peg
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    Definitely worth a go; Cox can’t use the excuse that we are more secure with 5 at the back with our abysmal record.

    Stick Jarvis in the middle with Loft and Scrimshaw either and see what happens.

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    #216014
    mkironMK Iron
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    Registered On: December 23, 2013
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    We cannot play 5 at the back because our coaching staff seem unaware of the basics of playing this system.

    One of the benefits of playing it properly is that without the ball the full backs/wing backs can engage and mark the opposition wide men and limit/stop crosses coming in.

    When we play it our full backs tuck in very narrow and leave the opposition wide men freedom of the park. We compound it by having the midfield drop deep and allow the opposition to ping the balls out wide pretty much unchallenged – see the space Forest Green’s No 6 and No 21 had last Saturday to continually pass the ball out wide unchallenged. Their No 21 just walked into 10 yards of space whenever they had the ball and then played it out wide to a free man about 20 times in the game. I spent the first half looking at our bench expecting them to get a midfield player to close him down but it never happened. Just after half time I was delighted to see Hackney take the ball of him rather easily – I though halleluja someone has said something at half time. That was the only time our midfield challenged him until he was substituted late in the game so the Hackney challenge was just a coincidence.

    I don’t believe O’Malley, Thompson, Millen, Rowe and Pugh all make the same decision to stand 20 or 30 yards off the opposition wide players so it must be a team tactic.

    The consequence is that when the ball inevitably gets played wide our full backs are busting a gut to then close the gap and more often than not an unchallenged cross comes in. Given crossed balls are the main source of goal chances in League 2 it is no wonder we concede so often.

    The insurance policy of 3 centre backs against one or two central strikers should allow the wing backs to get tight and stay tight and force the opposition down the middle. Simple but not the way we play it. Coaching basics chapter 1.

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    #216015
    mistertonmickmistertonmick
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    Registered On: December 23, 2013
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    That would be classed as a gamble, the lads are used to sitting deep and relying on breakaways and luck and hopefully someone can hit the target for a change, so don’t expect any sudden change to a losing formation

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    #216018
    mkironMK Iron
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    Registered On: December 23, 2013
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    If sitting deep and getting into shape worked at League 2 level surely we would have seen some benefits by now. It just gifts possession to the opposition in danger areas.

    Even in the 1 game we have managed to win this season Tranmere had a steady stream of unchallenged crosses in the first half from their right hand side. It was only because they were so shite they didnt make anything of them. You can play for or five centre backs – if you allow streams of unchallenged crosses into the area you are going to concede chances.

    .

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    #216126
    mistertonmickmistertonmick
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    That would be classed as a gamble, the lads are used to sitting deep and relying on breakaways and luck and hopefully someone can hit the target for a change, so don’t expect any sudden change to a losing formation

    wasn’t far wrong though

    #216130
    forever ironforever iron
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    Didn’t cox say at the shareholders meeting that playing wilson now every game will ruin him he needs to be introduced gradually as he is young and runs the risk of burning out. My belief is if your good enough your old enough. Get him in the team now.

    #216144
    WonderGoalsWonderGoals
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    idn’t cox say at the shareholders meeting that playing wilson now every game will ruin him he needs to be introduced gradually as he is young and runs the risk of burning out

    Runs the risk of burn out, what a load of rubbish.

    How many combined minutes has he gotten under Cox this season ?

    Wilson is a young, positive enthusiastic player….never heard anything so bloody stupid.

    Cox seemingly wasn’t worrying about burnout when he played a staring role in pre season.

    So, let me get this right….to prevent potential burnout of a positive young player, you simply don’t play him at all ?

    Good idea Neil, never thought of that.

    #216150
    cassidystashcassidystash
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    Quite right WG, and who has suggested playing Wilson every game? Nobody as far as I remember but plenty of us have suggested he gets some game time, especially before some players who are apparently ill. Must be filling the young lad with confidence Neil.

    #216163
    NorthumbironNorthumbiron
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    Going on that theory Kenyon and Bunn must be sixteen year olds!

    #216182
    WonderGoalsWonderGoals
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    I mean come on, he get’s worse. Cox decides not to play one of the shining lights of pre season in the fear of burnout ?

    If we had a sane manager he’d recognize we have poor wide players, see he’s talented and play him until he’s fatigued and then rest him.

    Isn’t that more sensible than not playing him at all ?

    That’s the worse excuse I’ve ever heard.

    #216191
    mkironMK Iron
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    Registered On: December 23, 2013
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    It is now blatantly obvious that the loan deals for Wood and Hackney mean they have to play when fit.

    The same kind of deal that George Thomas was on a couple of seasons back. That led to him playing 30 odd games with not a single decent performance amongst them.

    Hackney hit a good corner last night for Taft’s goal which is the first positive thing he has done since he arrived. Wood has contributed very little either. Nothing against these lads but are they any better than Pugh or Wilson? Not based on what I am watching.

    Why do we agree these kind of deals?

    #216192
    IronaweIronawe
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    Registered On: December 31, 2013
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    Said it before if Cox managed the young Cox he would not have been here today, he would’ve never played him –
    making up some crap excuse – him and Richard Hall would have left for nothing.

    He is just clueless in every department. I honestly reckon I could get one win in five with this bunch and also not spout the same shit in the press every single week

    #216193
    IronaweIronawe
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    Registered On: December 31, 2013
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    I would also play a 4-3-2-1 with Loft and Jarvis behind Scrimshaw -might draw defenders out and creat space or draw midfielders back and create space for Beestin.
    Hell nothing else is working

    #216196
    WonderGoalsWonderGoals
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    I’d go 4/3/1/2

    Hallam in the no 10 role behind Scrimshaw and Loft. Pugh just in front of back 4, with Beestin and Hackney “don’t really rate him but nobody else to choose from” in CM. Perry is naughty stepped and I wouldn’t trust Hippolyte in a central midfield 2 with one deeper.

    Flat back 4.

    My first choice would have been to go 4/4/2 with O’Malley pushed up one to left wing, Wilson on the right with Beestin and Pugh in CM with same two up front but now O’Malley’s injured it’s a definite no go.

    I wouldn’t be against 4/3/1/2 with Hallam as the link player though.

    #216198
    ironkingironking
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    5-3-2 presented as 3-5-2 descends into chaos. The opposition always have an overlap as our 2 wide wingbacks feel it is their duty to cover the 3 centre backs who are usually marking 2 forwards between them (very badly I might add).

    Thus leaving us deficient in midfield. Away at Barrow the ‘Boys own tactical handbook’ handed out with Topper magazine in 1974 suggested at halftime to bolster the midfield by reverting to 4 across the back and pushing the 5th defender or substitute into the midfield area.

    Lex Icon read it upside down taking a striker off and adding to the midfield thus creating 5-4-1 and playing all eleven men in the box. Loft pushing right out to the edge of our own ‘D’.

    Subsequently Topper has been replaced with a more upto date 1976 version of Warlord who highlighted a bad case of the shits which cost us the battle of jing jing whoooo during WW2 when 100,000 Allied troops surrendered to 10,000 Japanese maurauders.

    A bit like the Iron at Barrow give or take a few facts.

    Lex Icons 4-3-3 would have 5 defenders covering the 3 midfielders just in case one of the 2 strikers was having a bad shift and did not look like scoring.

    #216199
    vadervader
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    Registered On: October 21, 2017
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    It does seem like there is a “naughty step” which is pathetic given our current plight.

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