Is it really because you are the problem?

[Iron Age]

Gurnelista wrote:

Truss lacks any sense of the ridiculous. She and those like her are full of their own sense of entitlement, and seek constant admiration to bolster their egos. They have 0% self-awareness, but 100% self-confidence and 100% self-delusion, so they just blunder on arrogantly.

There are lots in public life, Trump, Johnson, Farage… and to some extent it has got them where they are today.

But another thing is the way the religious extremists on here align themselves with the far-right. This is odd, but digging into it, it’s quite logical.

For them, social divisions are part of a wider battle for Britain; one of Christianity v Islamism.

You can see the fear of Islam in their posts. Remember all the Brexit propaganda from Les and the jonnies about an impending Turkish invasion? And the links to far-right websites? JI telling us ‘we’re at war’, as well as the lunacy of BPG’s videos.

For the extremists on here and elsewhere, their religion is a symbol of identity, allegiance, and insurance for an imaginary afterlife. It’s a passcard to paradise. It’s an intense, cultish subscription which is almost impossible to drop or change. They didn’t choose it, it chose them, and giving up would be like giving up football for tiddlywinks, or worse, like an Iron fan becoming a Mariner!

Despite the ridiculousness of all this, rational argument, evidence and facts have no effect, so all the political extremism of the far-right seems justified in order to ‘save’ Christianity.

It’s reinforced and made worse by right-wing politicians and news sources which play up division and lay it on thick in the cosplay of culture wars, to distract the public from calamitous state of everything at present. It worked with Brexit, just, but it won’t again, as the next election will show.

But the oddest thing seems to be the tendency now to talk about Europe v Islam, when a few years back we were being told about the ‘evil empire’, and how those nasty foreigners were responsible for all our ills! Now it seems the great nations of Europe are our allies! Rank hypocrisy or what? What would Jesus say?

Change a few words here and there and this could quite easily be classed as an antisemitic or islamaphobian rant, or even racist.
Your views are your own and you are entitled to them.
But don’t put all Christians into the right wing group, there are plenty of us that aren’t. Not all Christians belong to the evangelical right wing fundamentalists.
Fundamentalism comes in many packages, Christians, Jews, Moslems, politics and yes atheists.
It’s the belief that one is absolutely right and everyone that disagrees is absolutely wrong.
If you think that Christians are completely against Islam or the Palestinians just look at the churches in Jerusalem, Roman, Anglican, Orthodox and Armenian and see what they are saying, it might surprise you.
The trouble with the right wing evangelical Christian fundamentalists of America is that they don’t represent the wider Christian world.

[Gurnelista]

Ironage, if you think it’s a few words away from an anti-semitic / Islamophobic rant, read it again – and see paragraph 3.

Of course not all Christians subscribe to the lunacy of the evangelical lot, nor do all Tories agree with the lunacy of those currently running the circus in Westminster.

But some – especially the most ardent on here – are attracted a) by the idea of yoking Christianity to nationalism, as the far-right does in the States, and b) by the idea that it’s under threat from Islam.

It’s complete rubbish of course, and just distracts the public from talking about how free market economics has failed to deliver social and economic justice.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/more-half-tory-members-poll-120849474.html

[Iron Age]

I have to admit that I don’t understand some of the comments by so called Christians on here, I have, in the past, invited them to research the thoughts of the Christian communities in Jerusalem and Palestine but no response.
The truth is that most Christians there are Palestinians and they are treated no better than the rest, even those that declare themselves as atheists.
As for the free market, we can only look at the Irish potato famine and the opium wars to see how that worked.

How about that coming from a Christian?

[Just Iron]

Maybe you’re on the path to proving yourself to be the ‘right’ kind of Christian Iron Age … one that doesn’t rattle Gurney’s cage too much. Not like those of us ‘deplorables’ who have differing views to him and, in so doing, have failed to recognise the profound level of self awareness he consistently manifests and the total lack of any self delusion. He asks us all ‘What would Jesus say?’ I suspect he thinks that it would be something like : ‘ You committed the unforgiveable sin. You failed to recognise the profound depth of Commissar Gurney’s wisdom, insight and love for all. Kneel before him, repent and await your instructions.’

[Iron-awe]

Bet old Gurney is laughing his head off, it’s obvious who’s cage he is rattling.

[Heath]

More him and me crap from JI.

[Iron Age]

Just Iron wrote:

Maybe you’re on the path to proving yourself to be the ‘right’ kind of Christian Iron Age … one that doesn’t rattle Gurney’s cage too much. Not like those of us ‘deplorables’ who have differing views to him and, in so doing, have failed to recognise the profound level of self awareness he consistently manifests and the total lack of any self delusion. He asks us all ‘What would Jesus say?’ I suspect he thinks that it would be something like : ‘ You committed the unforgiveable sin. You failed to recognise the profound depth of Commissar Gurney’s wisdom, insight and love for all. Kneel before him, repent and await your instructions.’

Are you my judge?

[Just Iron]

Definitely not ,Iron Age. That’s why I didn’t use a term like ‘ so called Christians.’

As for ,Gurney having a laugh boys … I would be happy to brighten his day.

[Deereyme66]

What’s going on? Pensioner war?

1 user thanked author for this post.

Just Iron

[Iron-awe]

Just Iron wrote:

As for ,Gurney having a laugh boys … I would be happy to brighten his day.

I’m sure you do JI every time you post.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Just Iron, Gurnelista

[Gurnelista]

S’pose JI’s lack of self-awareness plus obvious contradictions and double standards have a limited comedic value, as do those of Trump and Truss… which take us seamlessly back to the OP.

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Just Iron

[Heath]

How does any Christian rationalise support for a convicted sex offender and a fraud?

Or support for a “team” that is engaged in mass murder, destruction and persecution?

[Iron-awe]

Heath wrote:

How does any Christian rationalise support for a convicted sex offender and a fraud?

Or support for a “team” that is engaged in mass murder, destruction and persecution?

Absolutely Heathy, saying Trump is a better alternative despite his serious faults is basically going against your faith as a Christian surely. He’s a morally corrupt person and serial liar, even I know he’s a wrong un and I’m no Christian.

[Just Iron]

I could explain how I see it ..again..if I thought there was a genuine interest .. but .. there isn’t. We all know that. So I won’t. :)

[Iron-awe]

Hypocrisy is what it is I guess, difficult to explain.

[Just Iron]

If that satisfies you IA then go with it. It’s become clear that I should take another break I think.
Just got my tickets for Saturday ..but having to sit for first time since early 90s. (Was told that hypocrites not allowed in Donny Road :)

[Iron-awe]

Must be lonely in your rattling cage.

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Just Iron

[Heath]

“I could explain how I see it ..again..if I thought there was a genuine interest”

I for one have no genuine interest in you explaining again the continued mass murder of innocent Gazans, or Sidey’s excuse that these things happen in urban warfare or other conflicts.

Don’t need either of you trying to justify actions that are wrong.

[Siderite]

It’s not an ‘excuse’. It’s the reality; every other urban war looks very similar, and some cases worse (Mariupol may have had 4 times the deaths in half the time, for example), but it’s not a competition. I am yet to be convinced that Palestinian civilian deaths are any worse than Yemeni, Syrian or Ukrainian, nor why Israeli is inherently worse than Russian, British or American. Civilian casualties in war are tragic and horrible. I have said that I think Israel’s actions are not without problems, to say the least, but that doesn’t mean the horrific casualties in this conflict can be judged in different standards to others. I have no doubt this will be ignored for more self-righteous proclamations about it and ‘supporting Netanyahu’ or whatever. Even though I think he’s a grotesque fascist, but anything other than slamming him or Israel as the worst person or country ever must mean I am a ‘Netanyahu supporter’ (nuance be damned). Never mind that the cause of this was Hamas, but I guess that makes me ‘pro-Netanyahu’ because thinking Israel have a right to at least defend itself (even if I am less so of how it is being conducted) and not accept its citizens being kidnapped and slaughtered by Islamic fascists means I am a fan of Likud and its gang of fascists or something.

[Siderite]

I would like to add that just because the victims are the victims of urban warfare, it doesn’t mean that it is good or even justified by those who launched strikes. Victims of Russia’s aggression in Syria and Ukraine are the victims of an unjustifiable war and careless regard for human life. Israel may have a more justifiable reason for war, in my opinion, but that doesn’t mean I don’t think they can’t do more to prevent civilian casualties. I would say they can, but it doesn’t make the victims any different in cause to the Syrians or Ukrainians in the bombing campaigns of Mariupol or Aleppo.

[Iron-awe]

It was the support for Trump after all his law breaking and resulting convictions that was the point about JI squaring that all with his Christian faith but a little mass murder thrown in by Israel fits the brief also.

[Deereyme66]

I think the discussion evolved in to that after I made a comment about JI squaring anti-racism with an admiration for Trump.

[Heath]

So are you justifying the continued actions of the Israelis or not? I’m not, are you?

[Deereyme66]

I’m assuming that’s addressed to Siderite? I’m not, no. I’ve always accepted their right to defend themselves and expected some sort of retaliation but not the way they’ve gone about it, or the scale of it. The impact on civilians and that it’s exacerbating the problem is still my chief concern.

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Siderite

[Siderite]

I could keep saying that I understand why the conflict is happening and think there is justification there, but not with a lot of how it’s conducted, but I will still get the same questions and accusations.

[Heath]

I did provide a qualification of “continued actions”. This has gone well beyond the right to defend themselves.

[Siderite]

Hamas are still holding hostages, and still refusing ceasefires because they will have to give them up, so there won’t be cessation of conflict until they do. I hope there is a ceasefire, but the reality is that there won’t be one unless both agree.

[Iron Age]

They’re not on their own.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/07/netanyahu-rejects-gaza-ceasefire-deal-and-says-victory-is-within-reach-israel

[Siderite]

And I am sure that one was full of reasonable demands and Hamas would be trustworthy, just as they were last time when they broke it in a week. A ceasefire will have to be feasible.

[Siderite]

In other words, a ceasefire would need unconditional release of hostages, not more attempts by Hamas to regroup and regather strength.

[Author]

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