Iron Bru › Forums › Non Football › Is it really because you are the problem?
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February 22, 2024 at 12:45 pm #281577
Good grief – what a load of stinking HS from Truss, propped up by her tosser racist pal. She probably actually believes it was nothing to do with her crashing the economy and being totally inept. Still, money to be made over the water spouting nonsense like this. Grifters gotta grift. What is it with these populist types crying wolf the minute they’re deemed useless? One of them tried it on here once – blaming local authorities being too ‘woke’ to employ him, where as the reality was he probably just didn’t have the right skills and experience. Next time I get a speeding fine (if I get one – hopefully not), I might appeal on the grounds of police wokeness not letting me be my alpha male self tearing up and down roads, wowing the chicks, etc. Or go to the press.
February 22, 2024 at 1:18 pm #281581February 23, 2024 at 6:43 pm #281610The real thing is funnier. Well gotta laugh or cry.
Has any ex-UK Prime Minister ever done anything as embarrassing as this? pic.twitter.com/1gXqrVElxZ
— John O’Brennan (@JohnOBrennan2) February 23, 2024
February 23, 2024 at 7:29 pm #281612It must have been hard to cope after her disastrous stint as PM, but I almost feel pity to see this to presumably soothe her ego and make a buck at the same time. She must cringe inside when trying to sell this story to explain her failure.
February 24, 2024 at 12:01 pm #281629She is the one who could do with a bigger bazooka!
February 25, 2024 at 1:41 pm #281674At least Buckland calls it out. Dowden to an extent but edging his bets a little.
February 25, 2024 at 10:06 pm #281688It’s not OK to target, discriminate or denigrate people because of ethnicity. Racism is wrong.
One’s belief system ..including religious beliefs .. are nothing to do with race. If you don’t like someone’s belief system then ..within the bounds of reason and respect ..it should be OK to say so. That has certainly been the approach on this site ..with the few exceptions where reason and respect have eluded the odd one or two. My own faith has been challenged many times on various threads..sometimes respectfully and at others with less reasonableness and respect. None of it was racism.February 26, 2024 at 10:10 am #281694‘It’s not OK to target, discriminate or denigrate people because of ethnicity. Racism is wrong.’
And that squares with you supporting Trump how? Hard to take you too seriously tbh.
Can see your point about letting others know that some are not reasoned and respectful going down really well.
February 26, 2024 at 11:04 am #281700Race and ethnicity are quite different. Race has to do with physical differences, ethnicity has to do with language, culture, heritage and so on.
Ethnicity frequently includes religion, but not always. So, some of the same ethnic group might be Christian, others Jewish or Muslim, etc. For example, Nigeria has various ethnic groups, often with different religions. Syria does, too.
As for the right to say ‘I don’t like’ someone’s beliefs’, that’s fine. But the problem is that it’s frequently exploited by the political right to criticise and denigrate others. For example, the conflation of Islam with violence, radicalism and terrorism, Isis, ‘river to the sea’, etc. As a result, Muslims get denigrated and smeared, as if they’re all on the same spectrum.
It’s the same when others deny the holocaust, or claim the Jews are to blame for the evils of western society.
This sort of casual conflation of a particular faith with violence and subversion is as mad as saying ‘all Brexiters are bad and dangerous, like the guy who killed Joe Cox’.
Point is, they’re just opinions. There’s no facts, reason or respect, but opinions are popular, because they free you from the responsibility of thinking critically.
And this is the crux of the problem – that opinions like these appeal to unthinking, base instincts. They criticise those who have much less power. They distract and encourage people to ‘look down’ and blame those below, rather than ‘look up’ and blame those with power; those who brought the country to its knees after 14 years.
Millions accept this invitation to look down every day in papers like the Daily Mail, or tuning to Gbeebies and others, attracted by their respect for opinion over fact, and their swill of conspiracy theories.
Stupid but popular views are also highly profitable – they sell copy and get viewers. But it’s led to the decline of serious journalism, the decline of the Tory party, and the rise of Trump, Johnson, Braverman, Truss, Farage… the ‘underpants on head, the pencil up nose’ brigade even in some sections of the church, as well as a coarsening of political debate, and a growth in political violence.
In sum, it’s led to the undermining of social cohesion. That is the real problem when mainstream media gives predominance to opinion which masquerades as free speech, over fact.
There really are only two types who should be following opinions over facts; billionaires and stupid people. And if you’re not sure which you are, check your bank account.
February 26, 2024 at 10:37 pm #281726I don’t support any form of racism, Deerey…that’s for sure. Not sure where the Trump comment fits in … nor why you choose to be so dismissive about my contributions.
Re some folks being unreasonable and lacking respect ..are you suggesting I shouldn’t refer to my experiences because it might not ‘go down too well?’
If I were as invested in this forum as you are I would welcome folks like me who bring a bit of difference, try to keep it respectful and can lay out an argument. Instead my genuine questions re Hamas sourced casualty figures in Gaza remained unanswered and were met with petty jibes. Equally any mention of my Christian faith has been regularly met from some quarters with a cocktail of sneers and red herrings. It didn’t used to be like this. I remember reasonable exchanges with you, IA and even Heath. Now its ‘racism’, Trump and ‘why don’t you do one?’ My suspicion is that now that Bucks and BPG have gone and Sidey is ‘on side’ on everything but Israel .. theres only JI left to have a pop at.
Next time I decide to make a contribution how about resisting the urge to find ‘ammo’ dredged up from Gurney’s dossier and instead treat me as a discussion partner. Not everyone who sees the world differently is necessarily thick, deluded or evil. Maybe ..in the interests of keeping the forum alive ..as well as decency .. those inclined to personalise instead of staying on topic could even be asked to reconsider. That would be good.February 26, 2024 at 11:20 pm #281727Trump has a long history of racism and invoking it. You may say you don’t support any form of it but your past observations about Trump when he’s been in topics on here don’t square with that IMO. That’s the point I was making.
February 27, 2024 at 7:15 am #281728‘My suspicion is that now that Bucks and BPG have gone and Sidey is ‘on side’ on everything but Israel .. theres only JI left to have a pop at.’
This smacks of martyrdom btw. You been on a Peterson binge?
February 27, 2024 at 9:47 am #281732“Re some folks being unreasonable and lacking respect ..are you suggesting I shouldn’t refer to my experiences because it might not ‘go down too well?’”
I suggest that you stop banging on “about your experiences”. That would go down better.
Another thread turned into a me, me, me set of posts.
February 27, 2024 at 10:19 am #281733The perfect ‘trump’ cards played. First free floating references to racism with no definition or hard evidence cited and then discredit by association.. with a little dig from the ‘dossier’ to finish.
Then the ‘ace’ .. having personalised previous posts to avoid substance .. leverage the old ‘me,me ,me martyrdom’ jibe.
Anybody would think my views aren’t welcome :)February 27, 2024 at 11:20 am #281735Everyone is welcome here JI, unless they frequently flout the basic rules of engagement, as you well know. Look, if you’re going to start making assumptions and attempt amateur psychology to explain other posters motivations as you’ve done in your latest posts, maybe expect some push back? Not sure why you even cited bpg not posting anymore either. One, he is, and two, you’re the one who’s had the biggest beef with him. I can’t speak for others, but my contributions are not premeditated as you seem to be suggesting. I’ve had disagreements with most posters on here in recent years about all manner of topics and if I feel the need to publicly disagree with anybody again, I’ll do so. I made an observation about you calling out racism but a declared admirer of Trump. If you can’t see the irony in that, I can’t help you.
February 27, 2024 at 12:22 pm #281738A reasonable response, Deerey. Thanks. BPG and Bucks were obvious examples of dissenting voices to cite. I’m surprised that you think that Bill hasn’t pulled back. Bill’s and my spat was more ‘off forum’ but leaked on to here.I do think it would be disputatable that I would be the one having the biggest ‘beef’ with Bill on forum topics.
I also do think that there has been a tendency to make things personal instead of engaging with the substance of posts. Some posters,for example, obviously feel passionately about the Israel issue and I think that this passion can make people unreasoned. I was unimpressed when my 3 points re the Hamas sourced casualty figures were never acknowledged and instead met with personal and negative comments.( I have tried to ‘stay low’ on this but, at risk of playing the ‘martyr’, have far more skin in the game than the average poster. This risks putting more petrol to the flames but my son in law .. 40 year old father of my 3 Israeli grandkids … has just arrived back from the Gaza area and our daughter has sent us the clip of the kids welcoming him back. They have connection with families whose Dad’s are never coming back. I mention this to try to illustrate to the forum some of the personal pressures I have been navigating.) My ‘amateur psychology’ may well be provocative .. tell me anyone who finds it easy to have their motivations challenged. But the challenges I have made were not out of spite or to try to be ‘top dog.’ They were made to confront the notion that it’s valid to respond to challenging perspectives by ignoring substance and throwing out personal insults.
Finally .. thankfully I hear someone say :) … I am always happy to be helped. I don’t care where it comes from as long as it’s real. Trump has many flaws and I could list them. Any assessment of previous ‘admiration’ on my part surprises me. I wish there were other more attractive options for my American family at present. But we don’t always get our wishes. What I would say ..again.. is that sometimes we have to go with the most attractive of pretty crummy options. The lesser of evils and all that. It seems to me that the term ‘racist’ is bandied about alot at present .. the ultimate character assassination. That’s actually where I joined this particular thread if you recall. I was hoping to explore that issue ..but I was disappointed that you made the assertion that I wasn’t to be taken seriously. Linking Trump to ‘racism’ is clearly self evident to you and many others. I would be interested in your definition of racism and, from that, to see the the examples in Trump’s history. I don’t like racists and would never vote for a racist.An after thought. You assert that I should ‘well know’ that within ‘the basic rules of engagement’ everyone is welcome. If that is to be lived up to in future then posters, especially mods, should be quicker to push back on those who assert that someone is posting under another name so that all the ‘sins’ of others can be layed at their door. Equally a mild reprimand might be in order when someone gets irritated and tells another poster to ‘do one.’ It would feel more welcoming then.
February 27, 2024 at 1:05 pm #281740Take your pick
https://www.politico.eu/article/15-most-offensive-things-trump-campaign-feminism-migration-racism/
‘It seems to me that the term ‘racist’ is bandied about alot at present .. the ultimate character assassination.’
If it exists, it exists, regardless of what it ‘seems’ like to you.
February 27, 2024 at 1:27 pm #281742I also stated ‘invoking’ racism. Here’s just one example of him inciting racial hatred. Are you telling me you’re not aware of any of this stuff JI? I’d like to think the geuine answer is ‘no’ so I’m not wasting my time enlightening you.
February 27, 2024 at 1:46 pm #281743As JI rightly stated,” I’m surprised that you think that Bill hasn’t pulled back.”
I have ,a lot of it has to do with my regret for posting personal issues on this forum. I still read the different topics with interest,and the same when I posted regularly,they certainly reflect a person’s character. Dinner offer still stands.February 27, 2024 at 1:58 pm #281744I wasn’t aware of some of the postings Deerey so you weren’t wasting your time and thanks for bothering. Yes. Alot of unsavoury stuff there. He’s definitely proved himself crude, mouthy and immature over the years. As I said .. for many in the USA it feels like the lesser of two evils.It feels a bit less polarised here..but not much.
My reply was lengthy .. and contained some other issues than just racism and Trump. Any thoughts on other points?February 27, 2024 at 2:03 pm #281745JI – this is a forum inhabited by people who mostly don’t know each other personally. My use of the forum is to debate and respond to items of interest.
Whilst I have respect for your family’s situation, I will be hon
est and say it does not concern me. Nor does your repeated complaints about the tone of the discussions on here or your request for the mods to intervene.I deliberately refused to reply to your 3 points, because to be honest again, I really don’t care for your continued moaning about how you are dealt with by me and others. Harsh perhaps, but true.
February 27, 2024 at 2:30 pm #281748..and a position that you are entitled to take Heath. Just as my dislike of it for the reasons given is my prerogative.
Your last explanation comes across as pretty lame to be fair. You use the forum to ‘debate and respond to items of interest’ but reserve the right to ignore points made and make it personal because someone calls you out when you ignore points made and get personal.
Any thoughts on those 3 points by the way?February 27, 2024 at 2:48 pm #281749I refuse to be told what and when I should respond by you. To be honest again, I have had enough of your constant bleating and couldn’t give a shit how you feel.
February 27, 2024 at 2:50 pm #281750I actually edited that last post ..but it didn’t take!! This was the edit ..now as a follow up.
Reading my reply to you Heath does come across as a ‘gotcha’ .. and probably takes us nowhere. I’ve had some good discussions with you in the past, Heath. Nor so much recently. I don’t want to get embroiled in a ‘squabblefest’. I’m not on the forum so much .. but maybe .. as an ‘olive branch’.. we could take the approach that there could be something to be learned from hearing different perspectives. ( I know!! Even that sounds preachy. Best I could do!!)
February 27, 2024 at 2:57 pm #281751.. oh. You got in first… sounds like my further comments won’t be welcomed but they are sincerely made.
February 27, 2024 at 4:08 pm #281752I agree with JI that the choice for Americans between Biden and Trump is a bleak one, although the economy recovery under Biden and the job creation in particular has been impressive, his age and apparent infirmity on occasion go against him. Trump at 77, 78 in June, has also been making several speech gaffs of late calling his cognitive competence into question. However since the last election Trump is now a convicted sexual predator, has been found guilty of defamation and guilty of business fraud, all of which beggars the question is this man fit to lead the USA? The fines he has received have been staggering but the facts in all his criminal cases to date have been proven from a point of law, whereas most of Trump’s rebuttals legally have found to be worthless. Now compare that with the amount of conspiracy theory and lack of evidence that is the hallmark of a large part of Trump’s speeches on the current campaign trail leading up to the 2024 USA election. He is constantly fact checked and found to be lying constantly but of course he will continue to get massive media coverage right up to the last vote being counted in November. I personally think he is just digging himself into a deeper hole with every lie he tells and of course there are more legal woes facing him down the line. It’s all a very bleak looking outcome for the American people IMO, they need younger and more truthful candidates to be running in the Presidential race but unfortunately there isn’t any. Nikki Haley will lose eventually in the Republican nomination race and the USA will be heading for more election misery.
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February 28, 2024 at 10:20 am #281762Back to Ms Truss. You have to admire a politician who sticks to their beliefs and principles. One who doesn’t just change views based on what they see as best for their political career. Consistency is the key.
https://www.euronews.com/2022/09/05/liz-truss-journey-from-remainer-to-brexiteer-in-her-own-words
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February 28, 2024 at 10:58 am #281763Truss lacks any sense of the ridiculous. She and those like her are full of their own sense of entitlement, and seek constant admiration to bolster their egos. They have 0% self-awareness, but 100% self-confidence and 100% self-delusion, so they just blunder on arrogantly.
There are lots in public life, Trump, Johnson, Farage… and to some extent it has got them where they are today.
But another thing is the way the religious extremists on here align themselves with the far-right. This is odd, but digging into it, it’s quite logical.
For them, social divisions are part of a wider battle for Britain; one of Christianity v Islamism.
You can see the fear of Islam in their posts. Remember all the Brexit propaganda from Les and the jonnies about an impending Turkish invasion? And the links to far-right websites? JI telling us ‘we’re at war’, as well as the lunacy of BPG’s videos.
For the extremists on here and elsewhere, their religion is a symbol of identity, allegiance, and insurance for an imaginary afterlife. It’s a passcard to paradise. It’s an intense, cultish subscription which is almost impossible to drop or change. They didn’t choose it, it chose them, and giving up would be like giving up football for tiddlywinks, or worse, like an Iron fan becoming a Mariner!
Despite the ridiculousness of all this, rational argument, evidence and facts have no effect, so all the political extremism of the far-right seems justified in order to ‘save’ Christianity.
It’s reinforced and made worse by right-wing politicians and news sources which play up division and lay it on thick in the cosplay of culture wars, to distract the public from calamitous state of everything at present. It worked with Brexit, just, but it won’t again, as the next election will show.
But the oddest thing seems to be the tendency now to talk about Europe v Islam, when a few years back we were being told about the ‘evil empire’, and how those nasty foreigners were responsible for all our ills! Now it seems the great nations of Europe are our allies! Rank hypocrisy or what? What would Jesus say?
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February 28, 2024 at 3:04 pm #281788“Hope this knee injury clears up soon so I can get back in the Arsenal squad!”
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February 28, 2024 at 4:01 pm #281789… and Gurney once again bandies his irrational animus in a seething rant against a range of folks who might have the audacity to dissent from his never defined worldview .. Christians in included. 0% self awareness. 100% delusion. You got that right …
just failed to realise that it’s projecting from the mirror right in front of you. Write it on your own cap ol’ pal .. and wear it til you’ve grown out of it. -
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