Idiot of the Year

[Just Iron]

3. Afghanistan! Afghanistan! Afghanistan! What possessed him. And where are the feminist voices laying the blame for what has transpired? A charity that I support has a list of hundreds of Afghans who committed the heinous crime of becoming followers of Jesus and are being hunted door to door. Was it really to have a Foreign Policy trophy for last years Sep 11th? Dear God.
4. Unity. Bringing Americans together. Remember that speech. Unity except, of course, for the deplorable few … how many tens of millions .. who have other views and would reflect that in their vote. I see no evidence that Uncle Jo has an ounce of reconciliation juice flowing anywhere in his ageing body.
How’s that for starters? So ..for me .. Jo Biden it has to be.

[Just Iron]

Maybe me and Bill can be put on the back burner. I may have enough on my plate with possible responses to my Uncle Joe post and apart from laptop issues limiting my replies I’ve also got some catching up stuff to do after my holiday.

[Siderite]

I agree that Afghanistan was a mess, but that was 2021. Also, many of the right don’t want unity. They want to rant about how Democrats are evil child grooming paedos operating via pizza joints and rig elections. All unsubstantiated. However, Democrats are forever expected to placate such, while nothing expected in return. I am sorry, but if a good chunk of the American right want to do that and pal around with conspiracy theorists, some Holocaust deniers, they will face a negative reaction. Just as the anti-Semite apologetic Corbynites would. Hurt feelings from being seen as deplorable be damned.

[Just Iron]

1. The consequences of Afghanistan were not limited to 2021. They accelerated through 2022 and continue on.
2. I am a bit surprised by your analogy Sidey re Unity. Are you really thinking that tens of millions of Americans who don’t see the ‘progressive’ agenda as being healthy .. and not just an extreme cadre on the margins ..see the world as you have described? Jeremy Corbyn and his supporters were not mainstream, as the electorate quickly demonstrated, and did not reflect the vision of the majority of Labour supporters. And neither should the majority of centre and right leaning Americans be equated with those on the margins. How on earth can cooperation and partnership develop across a nation if whole swathes of the population are labelled and demonised in this way? I think Joe Biden has failed to grasp this but surely not you. ( But you’re not the President of the USA who pledged to Unite the country so he really matters)

[Siderite]

I agree, but the decision was made in 2021. It would be like listing Farage as an idiot of the year for his campaign during the Brexit referendum because we still have consequences.

It’s clear that he wasn’t referring to all who voted Republican. However, my view is that there is too large a chunk who are ok with such malicious behaviour. Polls consistently show it. I don’t see why I should be politically correct and spare such feelings, because their feelings are precious. Too many were happy with a misogynistic and disabled bashing president and worldview, taking on damaging conspiracies (I mean, hundreds did storm the Capital building and many sympathised). I don’t see why I or Biden should pander to such nonsense because it might hurt feelings (can’t be having that). Unity takes two and the statement was made to show he was willing, so long as the Republicans act in kind. Given their response has been to field more idiots yapping about election rigging and they engage in malicious stunts like jetting migrants off to the north-east, I don’t see it as some big vice not to indulge such silliness. If the Republicans want to radicalise themselves it’s not Biden’s job to pat them on the back to make themselves feel better. Nor is it mine to say their ideas aren’t malicious or dumb. Of course he should do what he sees fit to suit everyone, I am not talking about excluding people from societal benefits or anything remotely like that, but many Republicans would never be happy with a Democrat no matter what. Their extreme conspiracies and demonisation shows that. I don’t know how Biden could possibly unite such people, and they’re not a small chunk of the Republican base either.

If anyone who thinks the likes of DeSantis, Boebert, Cruz and co would genuinely compromise and not act so maliciously, then I have a bridge to sell. We have had years of Republican demonising of Democrats and refusing to work with them, even when they agree (Mitch McConnell was famous for it under Obama). When the Democrats grow tired of such games all of a sudden they cry foul.

As for the analogy. Both a sizeable chunk of Corbynites and Republicans have supported some abhorrent views and conspiracies. I don’t see why I should view one group differently than the other because it might make supporters uncomfortable. People are not their beliefs, I try my best to separate the two when dealing with people, but if people want to get themselves behind silly conspiracies which damage democratic norms and harm others then they can’t escape negative opinions. If people actively engage and excuse the misogyny, as many did and what such deplorable comments was aimed at, then it’s a bit snowflakey to cry about hurt feelings from such.

[Just Iron]

We are quite a bit apart on this. Even before possible Republican Presidential candidates have declared they are being ‘cited.’ If care isn’t taken it becomes ‘self evident’ that they are fair game .. why? … because they come from t’other side. That’s my point re Unity. Where does true tolerance start … when someone disagrees. What is real Unity … certainly not when it’s uniformity.

[Siderite]

Many Republicans are simply not interested in unity. Unity isn’t just about the Democrats doing whatever to suit Republicans, and even that wouldn’t be good enough for them. We forever hear about what Democrats need to do to win over Republican voters, but never the other way round. Unity for many Republicans mean do as they want otherwise they’ll play the victim and cry about being ignored, and that’s not going to happen, nor should it. The world doesn’t revolve around them and if they cannot compromise and accept that then it’s not anyone else’s problem.

I mean Tucker Carlson gets 5.2 million viewers, largely Republican, and he peddles Great Replacement crap. Am I supposed to just ignore this and say such views should be just accepted and not criticised for unity, because it might hurt their feelings? No, that’s silly. It wouldn’t wash with Corbynites, it doesn’t wash here.

[TwoWrights]

Honourable mention must surely go to one Peter Swann. Gamble millions of pounds away then try and claim he was exploited into doing so. The lawyers must be having a good giggle as the legal costs mount up, and I’ll be very very surprised if he wins this one.

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Iron-awe, Just Iron, Siderite

[Northumbiron]

Good shout, but Sidey would tell you it started in 2018!

1 user thanked author for this post.

Siderite

[Siderite]

And it took a Hull fan to first mention him on this thread! :-)

Anyway, I hope there are no hard feelings, JI. I may appear blunt, maybe, but I feel like I owe others some honesty. I don’t want to be two faced, I do try and separate the belief from the believer, and I judge on a case to case basis with individuals.

Feel free to open up about bpg, if you do so wish. His sniping at you is rather tedious.

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Iron-awe, Just Iron, TwoWrights

[TwoWrights]

Siderite wrote:

And it took a Hull fan to first mention him on this thread! :-)

A football fan as well though, and one that doesn’t like seeing loyal fans of other clubs getting the crappy end of the stick.

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Just Iron

[Just Iron]

We are definitely on different pages, Sidey. That take on how all the conciliatory impulse sits on one side of the divide is breathtaking. And I believe just perpetuates the polarised problem. But … again and again .. absolutely no offence taken when views are expressed without insult, mockery and malice. I love a bit of passion .. even if I see things very differently. A pleasure to do business with you, Sir.

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TwoWrights

[Siderite]

You misunderstand me. I do not think all the problems lie on one side of the divide. I am not keen on the Squad and many like them, who also worry me. I am not keen on some of the identity politics stuff. However, they are not at the moment in complete control. The problem is that the intolerant and rigid fundamentalists are in power within the Republicans. Therefore, they are currently the greater threat to democracy.

The problem when you ‘both sides’ it is that we’re left with comparing smaller fry like Clinton’s emails and Trump abusing all powers and privileges and him, with many others, trying to overturn election results based on nothing. Clinton made silly comments about not conceding, but did, which is far less than what the Republicans did. Yet we’re supposed to see an equivalence? I don’t think so.

Ultimately I do not think it’s healthy for the USA to be so polarised, but a large chunk of that issue comes from the fact that so many Republicans have gone into conspiracies (more and more anti-Semitic too, par the course for conspiracies) and rigid authoritarian thinking, where they want it all their own way. I do not know how I am supposed to react but disdain. Sure, I agree with trying to win people over, but nodding along with what passes as mainstream Republican ideology these days? Not a chance and that shouldn’t be pandered to. Many would only accept pandering to.

[Deereyme66]

Thanks for replying in length JI. Probably not going to respond to all of it but immediately this springs out:

‘1. Partly because he leads the (still) most influential and economically/militarily powerful nation in the world.’

Even with the rest of the point, I can’t see how this would make him any kind of idiot.

[Deereyme66]

‘4. Unity. Bringing Americans together. Remember that speech. Unity except, of course, for the deplorable few …’

Some views and actions of Trump and his most active supporters are deplorable and don’t have a place in modern society. Of course that may be true of some Democrats too but surely the unity message is ‘let’s try and work together and be less rigid in our ideals. However, some actions are just unacceptable so they won’t be entertained’. Can’t see the problem with that personally.

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Siderite

[Gurnelista]

A really odd post to explain your nomination, JI.

1) Is saying you think he doesn’t make good decisions – not really a qualification for Idiot of 2022.
2) Energy policy – that would be Biden’t green energy policy that you disapprove of, right?
3) Afghanistan withdrawal? Well, the Yanks went in ostensibly for counter-terrorism purposes, not to hang around and protect Christians. Do you really think the USA should be invading countries around the world to protect followers of Jesus?
4) Unity? Reconciliation juice (whatever that is)? Do you really think Biden should give a free pass to those Republican terrorists who stormed the Parliament?

It seems to me you’d quite like to line up with the fundamentalist right-wingers of the USA but can’t quite bring yourself to say so.

[Siderite]

Gurnelista wrote:

3) Afghanistan withdrawal? Well, the Yanks went in ostensibly for counter-terrorism purposes, not to hang around and protect Christians. Do you really think the USA should be invading countries around the world to protect followers of Jesus?

I don’t think this is really fair. It’s not just Christians suffering in Afghanistan and the result of the withdrawal has been terrible for those, which include Shia’a, gays, women and people who worked with the NATO troops, alongside Christians. I don’t think JI was saying human rights only matters for Christians, even if he could have expanded on the list of victims of the Taliban. The event wasn’t a positive for the Afghan people and that is something which lies at the feet of those responsible, which includes Biden, even if Trump started the process.

[Gurnelista]

I agree with your point Sid, and the one you made before that. Human rights are important everywhere. But that’s not what JI said. There was no mention of anyone else or their rights, other than Christians.

In any case, invading another country in order to defend human rights is never straightforward, as we’ve seen across the middle east and elsewhere in recent decades. It’s probably one of the biggest dilemmas facing any leader. But deciding against it, or deciding to withdraw – while it might be ill-judged, particularly without a clear withdrawal plan – is scarcely a qualification for idiocy.

[Northumbiron]

One could argue that it was to protect the lives of US military personnel.

Hardly an idiotic decision for a President of that country to make.

[Just Iron]

When I get my laptop back from repair man ..hopefully soon .. I’m looking forward to answering some of the reactions to my nomination.
I see you modified a post, Gurney. I can’t see an ‘edit tag’ like there used to be. Am I missing something .. in case I want to do an edit?

[Deereyme66]

You get a limited amount of time to edit your post JI. Then the option disappears. Not sure how long it lasts

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Just Iron

[Just Iron]

Thanks for Edit tip Deerey.
Re Joe Biden leading the most influential nation. What I was trying to say was that whilst I understand the nominations from the UK scene … or even as far as Moscow .. it was the consequences of accumulated ‘idiocy’ by the US President that did and does the most damage. Of all people the world needs a balanced and wise US President.
Re the ‘deplorable few’ it is my words immediately afterwards ( ref to tens of millions) that is the crux of my argument. And it’s my main disconnect with Sidey. There is indeed a substantial number of Republicans ..maybe tens or even hundreds of thousands … with deplorable attitudes and behaviour because it’s a massive demographic and huge electorate so that even the band on the margins is pretty hefty. But there are tens of millions of Conservative Americans who don’t storm buildings or engage in wild conspiracy theories or accuse the opposition of being Paedos. Who knows whether this extreme element are greater in number than or a significant percentage more than their counterparts on the left … thinking Antifa/BLM et al … who looted and burned their way through largely poor neighbourhoods in the Summer of 2019. You have drawn your conclusion Sidey in alleging that these elements now dominate Republicanism in a way that their counterparts don’t on the Democrat side. I don’t see it. My fear is that the definition of a ’Deplorable’ having no place is civilised society is not just being applied to those described above on the right but is actually starting to umbrella generally over those holding socially ‘conservative’ values … many of which I share. (Let’s see how it pans out for me later when I answer some of Gurney’s probing about my own views)
Sidey .. a lot of what I’ve addressed to Deerey obviously responds also to some of your points. I would just add a couple of more things. It’s a relief to me that you’re not keen on ‘the Squad’…hopefully not the 2019 looters and rioters also. Seems to me that they were also ‘Deplorable’ ..though I’ve not heard it said. (‘Who said protests have to be peaceful?’ ‘They are not going to stop ..and nor should they!’ etc etc)
Again your assertion that one side has mainstreamed its ‘Deplorability’ whilst the other hasn’t is where the cookie crumbles for me and makes me concerned that it is not just extreme, crazed and criminal behaviour that attracts the label … but certain values and views that clash with a progressive worldview. This is where, I suspect, that my old friend Gurney wants to ‘out me.’

More on that later.

[Siderite]

I think a big part of your post falls down in that I haven’t said all. I have said a large chunk. You can dress it up how you like, but the conspiracist right make up a large amount when it comes to polls on this. At least 3/5s or something supported the Capital storming, and we’re supposed to brush this aside and ignore it for unity, while they do nothing in return to promote reconciliation? Not only that many of the Republican politicans back them up on this, so it is clearly ingrained in the party.

On the other hand, ask any antifa what they think of Joe Biden and what do you think they’ll say? They will say he’s a neoliberal centrist who isn’t good and probably as bad as Trump. So, I’d hardly say there’s an equivalence.

I made it clear I have problems with aspects of the left. That should be evident, including a lot of those who support BLM and come up with barmy ideas. However, they are not Joe Biden, and as I said, if anyone bothers to read what they think and converse with them it’s clear they hate Biden as much as Trump fans. However, the key is the nutty lefties like this aren’t the ones in charge, unlike the Republicans, and I am not convinced their numbers are as strong. Which is why the Republicans bother me a lot more. Wake me up when Democrats make outright assaults on democracy and when the Squad aren’t sniping from the sidelines. Pelosi, Biden et al. are not these and are well within democratic norms. Just as Bush mostly was, Reagan, Eisenhower and co. The current Republicans aren’t that though and will yap about election rigging and will gerrymander to suit them. Their responses in 2020 showed their commitment to democracy, and barring a few, many showed their true colours.

It’s why I hate both sidesism. Of course there are problems with both sides, but all too often those arguing this make out it’s identical on both, and it always seems to downplay right wing authoritarianism and radicalism in favour of focusing on left wing. Balance isn’t about saying both sides are as bad as each other, because that’s not always the case.

[Siderite]

Sorry, genuine typo. I meant 2/5s, not 3/5s.

[Siderite]

Also, that should be Capitol! Not been my day!

[Iron-awe]

There was always going to be aggro when the US pulled out of Afghanistan no matter who was President, Trump had planned the withdrawal and there is no evidence to suggest he would have done any different to Biden timescale wise if he’d been re-elected. What has happened since the withdrawal should leave no one in doubt just how barbaric the Taliban are, yes I’m going to say it, bloody religion again. The other points have been addressed by other posters so JI thanks for responding and though I don’t share your reasoning for Biden to be named as idiot of the year, at least you fleshed out your thinking why. It’s basically the difference of how we look at the world and how it should be run for the betterment for all or at least as many as we can run it better for. Whether it’s how wealth is created and distributed better for the many and how we care for people in a better fairer way, or how we see ourselves on the world stage and how we address countries being invaded by others on the flimsiest of reasons. It’s a huge task and there are no easy answers but I sure don’t put Joe Biden in the same camp as Putin when it comes to how a powerful country should be run and how it should act on the world stage. Nobody is perfect but if you said to me who I would prefer if I had only two choices of person to run the UK, either Biden or Putin, well it wouldn’t be Putin. Hope your laptop problems are resolved soon.

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[Siderite]

Anyone who puts Biden in the same planet as Putin needs examining. One’s a democratically elected leader who respects the system, the other is an ethnonationalist, essentially fascist autocrat responsible for mass murder of civilians.

[Deereyme66]

They’re all as bad as each other

Joking!

[Just Iron]

Just come in so haven’t taken in the replies to my last post. Maybe in the morning. Meanwhile ….

Hi Gurney You made 4 points so I’ll answer each one then add a bit more.
1. The idiocy was never about ‘not making good decisions’. It was about the most powerful and influential man on the planet making a series of awful, abysmal ones.
2. Energy. The Green New Deal. Yep. You nailed it. I disapprove ..almost to the point of despair .. of Biden’s Green energy policy. (My first real ‘outing’ in the bag, Gurney). A policy that helps to plunge hundreds of millions ..not just in the USA but across the Globe.. into energy poverty and distress; that enhances Putin’s capabilities; that gives unbounded joy to the CCP; that not only doesn’t help the environment but actually makes it worse. Genius!
3. Sidey may differ from me in some perspectives but he definitely shares my advocacy of fairness. You might ask yourself, Gurney, why all your contextual skills and undoubted intellect go sailing down the Swanee whenever my faith comes into view. For example … why did I refer to Feminist voices on Afghanistan. Is it because, as you said, my focus is solely on Christians? Are you under the illusion that Feminists mainly advocate for the disciples of Jesus? The idiocy in Afghanistan was that it had all the hallmarks of a woefully uninformed and hastily conceived grab for a ‘political trophy’ with scant regard for women, minorities, those who helped the allies … and ‘apostates’ now fleeing death because of their Christian faith. To pull troops out first! Idiocy. To leave allies scrambling! Idiocy. To leave tens of billions worth of state of the art weaponry. Idiocy. To consider the Taliban honourable and reliable partners. Idiocy. To signal to nasty, malevolent regimes across the Globe that the US is either naïve or spineless. Idiocy. I think you catch my drift.
4. No. I don’t endorse criminal behaviour. Whether it is storming Capitol buildings, looting and torching black owned stores and businesses, influence peddling for millions of Chinese lucre or fabricating narratives to discredit political opponents I am firmly on the side of accountability. It’s not for nothing that Justice wears her blindfold … and so should we all be impartial and consistent in our zeal for truth and justice.
Finally …. The Big Reveal. Have I ever mentioned that I am a Christian.? Probably.(Groan) I believe in the sanctity of human life and so am not a fan of abortion. I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. I believe that there is such a thing as a man and a woman. I believe in social justice. I celebrate the wonderful racial and cultural diversity on the planet. I love freedom of thought and freedom of speech. I believe in respectful and honest discourse. I don’t believe in labelling or mocking or cancelling people who have different opinions. And I’m probably more to the right than the left … with a bit of movement in between on some issues. Thats me out of the closet .. if I was ever in it.

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TwoWrights

[Just Iron]

‘Anyone who puts Biden in the same planet as Putin needs examining. One’s a democratically elected leader who respects the system, the other is an ethnonationalist, essentially fascist autocrat responsible for mass murder of civilians.’

Did anyone,Sidey? Maybe we didnt define our terms. Do I think Biden is a fascist autocrat responsible for mass murder ..like Putin, or Kim Jong Thingee, Or China’s boss. I dont think these guys are idiots. Far from it. I do think Joe Biden qualifies.

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