Humanitarian pause , Zionist style

[Siderite]

Deereyme66 wrote:

Do your concerns about humanitarian agencies include UNICEF, who’ve been very critical, not so much the sentencing itself but the treatment when they’re imprisoned? And, you have no idea of the actual circumstances and context of their arrests. You have no idea whether their incarceration was fair or not.

I will need to read into it more, but I am thinking that the treatment of the prisoners is something needing to be addressed and is bad.

[Heath]

I just don’t understand why you can’t accept that incarcerating 14 year old boys in military jails for offences such as stone throwing might be wrong.

As Deerey said, this has been going on long before recent events.

[Siderite]

Stone throwing leads to sentences here for those found guilty. In my response to Deerey, I can see that there is much needed to change in that. However, I don’t think the original post was clear in this being the point, and the prisoners weren’t just stone throwers.

[Deereyme66]

I think you misinterpreted the original post tbh Siderite. Maybe you think we’re idiots? I don’t know. I know you’ve accused me of slander recently and made comparisons to Bucksiron’s style of debate, whilst ironically strawmanning me, so ‘meh’ indeed.

[Deereyme66]

‘Stone throwing leads to sentences’. That made me chuckle. Thanks.

[Siderite]

Deereyme66 wrote:

I think you misinterpreted the original post tbh Siderite. Maybe you think we’re idiots? I don’t know. I know you’ve accused me of slander recently and made comparisons to Bucksiron’s style of debate, whilst ironically strawmanning me, so ‘meh’ indeed.

The question made it appear as if they were in prison for no reason, so if that was the intention, it was easy to be misinterpreted.

I don’t know why you keep trying to make out I think I you’re intellectually inferior; if someone posts something which makes it sound like juveniles were in prison for no reason, I am going to argue against it, but it doesn’t mean I think they’re stupid. I made the Bucks comparison because it was a back and forth over the strength of language in both cases. I know I can be emotional and sarcastic, yes, I know I am not perfect, but I don’t think everything said in return has been great either.

I know I don’t have to be such a soapbox and opinionated sod, but it feels like a character assassination at times. I can respond, I know, but a lot of it has been about how awful I am. I have enough self-questioning and doubt of my own to deal with.

[Deereyme66]

Anyway, gotta crack on, busy day tomorrow. In between a long journey I need to fit in a fair few mea culpa’s.

[Siderite]

Deereyme66 wrote:

‘Stone throwing leads to sentences’. That made me chuckle. Thanks.

If it was me, it would probably lead to several on here, spanning an essay length post.

Well, I made myself giggle.

[Siderite]

I was going to do a thread making this comment, but felt it would be too vainglorious. I debated whether to make it at all, because it seemed a bit too twee. However, I had a think and decided I should, even if it is not actually about the topic that much. Don’t worry, this isn’t going to be more snark,

At the weekend I attended the march against anti-Semitism in London. It was honestly a humbling experience to join in the biggest march against anti-Semitism since Cable Street and gave me a chance to think about it all. The actual march was peaceful, with ‘bring them home’ the most common chant. No chants of jihad, intifadas or of the destruction of a nation and no disgraceful placards or the sort. Only two arrests, one being an anti-Semite yelling abuse at the marchers, the other being Tommy Robinson for hijacking for his own agenda of making it about hating Muslims (more on that soon). I was actually very close to where he was arrested and saw him being escorted away by the police and laughed before shouting “f**k off, Tommy”. Oh well, but it was made better when I found out his arrest was caused by the march organisers telling the police he is not welcome (and told him beforehand). Which is what should happen with such people. You can’t control them trying to latch on, but you can make an effort to do something to stop it. It is possible.

The speeches however did humble me. They were all good, from the MPs of Labour or Conservative to the chief rabbi and others. What stood out to me from the speeches was besides the messages against anti-Semitism, was the reminder to be aware of not dehumanising others like Muslims ourselves. Eddie Marsan highlighted the rocketing rise of anti-Semitic incidents reported, but also said similar was true for anti-Muslim bigotry, urging us to combat both. The chief rabbi urged us to remember the losses in Gaza and that we should understand that others will see that and deserve understanding, even if we see the need to remove Hamas.

It was also good to see the Iranians, Kurds and Ukrainians out in support. The British Hindu Council, Kurdish, Iranian and Christian groups had all given support to the organisers.

It all did get me thinking and made me realise, alongside my own reflections anyway, that I understand that I haven’t done enough to make that clear here. I still stand by a lot of my own opinions and disagreements over objections to a lot of Israeli standpoints. I still cannot see how conflict from Israel is avoidable, especially as today Hamas have attacked civilians in Jerusalem during a ceasefire and said they would do October 7th again once more. However, I do realise upon reflection, that this doesn’t mean the exact way Israel has conducted the war is necessarily the best and that I haven’t done enough to make it clear that I understand that some of the criticism is of that, and maybe created a conflation between that and the need for war itself. Even if I am more supportive of Israel, it doesn’t mean that I couldn’t have been clearer in how the civilian casualties is horrible and can be worked upon. I am pleased to see Anthony Blinken stress that any support of action in south Gaza must have a clear plan for civilians to make sure casualties are minimised.

I realise that I have been perturbed by what is an increasing trend of unreasonable opinion and, yes, antisemitism on social media, on university campuses and the like. Some of it has been sick and some of the what was fringe views being expressed by academics and others of supposed high reputation. However, I have let that bleed on to others too much in objections on here. Just because there is a lot of problems elsewhere, it doesn’t mean it’s fair to treat others like they are the same as the Michael Walkers, Rivkah Browns and Owen Jones, who is making himself look like a deranged loon with his recent Irving-esque doubt sowing over October 7th.

For these things, and probably other examples I am struggling to think of off the top of my head, I do apologise. I stand by my disagreements over many things on this issue, but will strive to do better. Less snide responses, bettering of clarity in response on what is a sensitive issue and differentiation between the unreasonable comments (at least in my opinion) and the more reasonable.

One thing I have seen with people online, on so many issues, is that they have been consumed and lost their self-awareness and minds, in some cases. Including with those I mostly agree on some topics. Graham Linehan, Owen Jones, Frances Weetman, James Melville, Maajid Nawaz and AC Grayling are just some of these I can think of. I would hate to let any issue do similar to me. So, yes I do apologise for some of my tone in discussions over the past few weeks on this and hope it can be less tense in any future discussion.

[Siderite]

Yes, I realise that is a lot of text!

[Siderite]

Also, if I have made a poor wording choice somewhere, please bear in mind it took me half an hour to type that out and mean it with the best intention possible. I haven’t given it a very thorough proof read, and didn’t want to spend my evening hunting for things that might be misconstrued.

[Heath]

Choose your words and be as reasonable as you wish. There is no reasonable defence for the resumption of the massacre of children, mutilation and total destruction.

[Siderite]

Well, I tried. I do note nothing was said about Hamas’s ceasefire breaking though. Israel aren’t going to accept Hamas trying to kill their citizens. If Hamas are going to continue with their war with terror and missile attacks it will lead to a response. Questions over how the response occurs are valid, but a response will be the case all the same and no other nation would just accept it.

Maybe the Allies shouldn’t have tried to defeat and destroy Nazi Germany, since their actions killed hundreds of thousands of Germans in trying to do so.

[Heath]

This isn’t the second world war. Rules of war were established after the second World War. Ignored by the Serbs, Syria, Russia and multiple other states. I don’t expect our Government to support Israel in the breaking of these rules.

[Heath]

And what exactly did you try? Your position hasn’t changed so don’t get all mighty because you’ve written yet another of your “reasonable” essays.

[Siderite]

I agree, though every war since has had civilian conflict, including ones we have got involved in. Including operations against ISIS, which I felt were justified. The alternative was to let ISIS rule over others with genocide and theocratic rule, while seemingly inspiring attacks in our own countries. For Israel, Hamas posts a similar risk to their own civilians, especially given Hamas continuously say they won’t stop attacking them with pogroms, terror and missiles. Israel can and should do a lot more, but are justified in defending itself.

[Siderite]

Heath wrote:

And what exactly did you try? Your position hasn’t changed so don’t get all mighty because you’ve written yet another of your “reasonable” essays.

I see. The issue which makes me evil is that I don’t agree with you. I am not going to apologise for a different opinion and it is not reasonable to do so.

Though, I notice more snideness, yet it will be pinned on me no matter what.

[Heath]

Evil? Is that your word or mine? And where have I requested an apology?

[Siderite]

I understand I was too snide in the past in my own response, but this is really wearying. I wasn’t trying to be high and mighty, I was making a reflection where I understood my past conduct should have been better.

Like I say, I get that what is going on is tragic for all involved. I get that many will feel emotional over it, and not all are the bad actors. What I think is that it is Hamas who bears a lot of the blame for forcing a war and now breaking a ceasefire. I don’t like the idea of Israel targeting the south without plans for civilians; the evacuations from the north made sense for this, but now what? Egypt should take them in too, so they need some blame here. It was Hamas who started the conflict with their evil, Israel had no choice but to respond for their own safety and we would have done the same, as would all other nations.

Disagree with me, fine. Like I said, I was too dismissive of some concerns over the situation from you, and others. I accept that, but my major point above was to essentially admit that I had made errors in how I responded and reacted. Ultimately neither of us are going to make a difference, so I don’t see the need for terse exchanges. It’s a difference of opinion, we can’t agree on everything, and both of us recognise that the situation is a tragedy and horrible.

[Author]

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