How much longer?

[Ferrite]

cassidystash wrote:

Sorry if I seem a bit simple but why does it cost £100 to test a footballer?

Because they’re not entitled to the ones which the NHS pay for, by and large. I guess they would be if they had come into close contact with another person who tested positive but then they would have to go through the rigmarole of finding a public test centre with available slots, which takes time. So private testing makes sense but these things cost money.

[cassidystash]

Thanks.

[Heath]

Boots intend to charge £120 per test to the public when and if their 13 minute test becomes available. Would be interested to know the base cost for the test.

[Ferrite]

A good example of how important the NHS is, to ensure people can get healthcare for free when they need it.

Political point over, there is no way we should be being made to play a game tomorrow.

[Iron-awe]

Heath wrote:

Boots intend to charge £120 per test to the public when and if their 13 minute test becomes available. Would be interested to know the base cost for the test.

I reckon it will be a 90% mark up on that test Heathy, total exploitation by the private sector. People should avoid feeding unnecessary profiteering and leave it alone.

[Deereyme66]

With all these untested players running around, possibly with Covid, I can’t see the smaller stadiums being able to open with restricted numbers any time soon.

[Mel K]

You are aware if you get COVID there is a 99.6% chance you will recover?

[Gurnelista]

It depends how old you are.

https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid

But even if you don’t die you’ll still pass it on to a lot of other people, who’ll pass it on to even more, and some of them might die, and assuming you’re in your twenties you might be the 1/100 who dies too.

And even if you don’t die you might end up in intensive care for weeks, just like some of those to whom you passed the disease. And time in an ICU takes ages to recover from, and it’s expensive too.

[Mel K]

So basically everybody over 80 should be isolating. Everybody over 70 should probably be isolating.
Everybody else should carry on as normal then.
Very unlikely anyone in their twenties would die at all.

[mistertonmick]

Well I am in my 70s and don’t have health problems to keep me in, my problems are mental health and staying in 24/7 would drive me over the edge so I don’t agree with that, I spend enough time at home as it is and even going to supermarket helps, also isn’t a lot of the problem younger people and students are the ones spreading the virus.

[Mel K]

But as young people aren’t going to hospital or dying they are not a problem. Catching a virus which doesn’t kill you is something we have been doing for thousands of years.

[mistertonmick]

A lot of older people haven’t been in hospital with it, so you are saying no younger people have been in hospital with the virus, well I think you are way off the mark with that, and even school kids have died with it, obviously they have a better chance but a lot depends if you have underlying problems and that can be anyone of any age.

[mistertonmick]

So out of the near 700 people who have died in the last couple of days you can guarantee they are all over 70 years old, at least the Works and Pensions will be happy with the pensions they will be saving a month.

[Gurnelista]

MelK, you could argue that the older you are the more you should be isolating, but do you really think it’s acceptable to tell the over 70s they shouldn’t go out at all if they aren’t ill and if there’s no lockdown in place?

Even if the government did say this, they probably wouldn’t accept it.

The issue with younger people is that although they might not get very ill they often pick up the disease and transmit it, for example in bars, restaurants, workplaces, on public transport, or at home when friends come to visit, or at college etc. It’s no surprise that people going back to work, school and college, as well as eating out ‘to help out’, led to a sharp increase in infection rates.

And even tho’ younger people are less likely to die when they get Covid, they can still end up in hospital and block the beds of others who need treatment for other conditions like cancer.

That’s why another national lockdown seems likely – it’s the only thing which is likely to bring down the escalating infection rate.

Oh, and as for man having caught diseases for thousands of years… thousands of years ago most people were dead by their mid 30s!
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/07/the-paleo-diet-caveman-cure-all-or-unhealthy-fad/242621/

[mistertonmick]

well said Gurnelista.

[Mel K]

Gurnelista wrote:

MelK, you could argue that the older you are the more you should be isolating, but do you really think it’s acceptable to tell the over 70s they shouldn’t go out at all if they aren’t ill and if there’s no lockdown in place?

Even if the government did say this, they probably wouldn’t accept it.

The issue with younger people is that although they might not get very ill they often pick up the disease and transmit it, for example in bars, restaurants, workplaces, on public transport, or at home when friends come to visit, or at college etc. It’s no surprise that people going back to work, school and college, as well as eating out ‘to help out’, led to a sharp increase in infection rates.

And even tho’ younger people are less likely to die when they get Covid, they can still end up in hospital and block the beds of others who need treatment for other conditions like cancer.

That’s why another national lockdown seems likely – it’s the only thing which is likely to bring down the escalating infection rate.

Oh, and as for man having caught diseases for thousands of years… thousands of years ago most people were dead by their mid 30s!
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/07/the-paleo-diet-caveman-cure-all-or-unhealthy-fad/242621/

I wasn’t saying they they should be isolated. I was saying they should isolate if they are worried.

You should all really look at the statistics and make decisions. When I looked last week there were 6,000 people in hospital with Covid. If 1,500,000 NHS staff can’t cope with that maybe it is time to give up.

The average age in the UK of people dying if COVID is 77. Sad if it’s you or someone close but definitely not a tragedy.

There is no vaccine and we were warned yesterday when it does arrive it may well not work. We have been looking for a vaccine for hepatitis C for the last ten years.

We have destroyed lots of businesses and created a million unemployed. Meanwhile people in Sweden go to work, eat out, enjoy their lives whilst maintaining social distancing and look at us in bemusement

[Anonymous]

When people talk of Sweden they neglect to mention that many Swedes voluntarily took precautions. Over a third worked from home, large gatherings were banned and many stayed among their social bubble to avoid risk. It wasn’t a case of people going out shopping and to bars as normal, shouting “screw you coronavirus, we won’t change our ways to let you win” as the tunnel visioned admirers from abroad like to make out.

What’s more, Sweden suffered more deaths than neighbouring Norway, Finland and Denmark who all have more similar population dynamics than we do. All those neighbouring countries locked down and their economic damage was akin to Sweden’s. Some may scoff, but I’d put the response of Denmark, Finland and Norway ahead of Sweden. Fewer deaths and no meaningful difference in the economy. It’s almost as if a direct international comparison between the UK and Sweden is hampered by other things.

Sweden are now implementing local lockdowns and tougher measures, so I don’t know where this idea that Swedes are looking on at us in despair has come from. It seems that they are losing confidence in their more lax approach, which is venerated by others, solely as a means of justifying their own ideology without actually paying attention.

Those right leaning libertarians who venerate Sweden for saving the economy do little to pay attention to the socially democratic schemes training those made redundant for future work, which are aimed to help with the economy during such tough times. When such is suggested, that’s evil socialism.

[Gurnelista]

Well, MelK, the elderly can and do isolate if worried. I have neighbours who hardly go out because of this. But some have to go out and mix publicly, because for example, they don’t have the support of others, or they don’t have cars and depend on public transport for shopping, doctors’ appointments etc etc.

As for “looking at the stats” you need to do more than just look at them, you have to dig down and analyse them, and it’s not a pretty picture for anyone. Try actually talking to those in the NHS too, see what they say about working in the front line, the underfunding, and the lack of PPE, the queues for treatment for other illnesses and the personal risk to themselves, not just from Covid, but overwork and mental stress. See for example the setting up of ‘recovery rooms’, not for post-operative patients, but for staff on the verge of cracking up.

And you say they should just ‘give up’!! Where’s the British bulldog spirit that won us two world wars (and one world cup)??

As for the average death being 77, you imply they elderly don’t matter because they hadn’t long left. Well, just wait until you’re 77, Mel! Or until it affects one of your elderly relatives! Sacrifice the elderly to protect Pret a Manger? I don’t think it’s a runner. You have to put health before wealth.

In any case, 77 is an average, and that’s only for deaths. Covid affects people of all ages, and as stated above, hospital care is resource hungry – it’s labour intensive, it blocks beds and treatment for those with other conditions, and it costs a lot of money.

Yes, lockdown measures have a price too. A lot of people will suffer from effectively being put under house arrest, as well as losing their jobs. This government could do more about that, as they have in Germany. With a minimum of 60% of pay, and furlough for 24 months, it’s protecting jobs and skills. It’s a government you can trust, unlike here.

Same in Sweden, where trust in government means people follow rules and regs. and take sensible precautions. They also have many people living in single occupancy households, unlike here. But there are a lot of myths about what’s going on there. See below, about why it’s not a good comparison, as well as BRI’s post above.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3765

These countries do better than us because they trust those in charge to behave competently and look after their people. In return they behave themselves and follow the guidelines. Here, it seems people increasingly don’t believe what they’re told, because the government has cried ‘wolf’ far too often.

[Northumbiron]

Gurnelista wrote:

These countries do better than us because they trust those in charge to behave competently and look after their people. In return they behave themselves and follow the guidelines. Here, it seems people increasingly don’t believe what they’re told, because the government has cried ‘wolf’ far too often.

THIS ^^^^^^

Absolutely spot on Gurney.

And therein lies the difference.

[lesgeo]

Some interesting points.
One extra though, is that the Swedes can often be far more socially-minded than we are, in my experience.
I was in Spain in September – and it was noticeable just how much more careful the Spaniards are than what I generally tend to witness in Sheffield.

[Awaywego]

From a young person’s perspective the young must look at covid and say let’s get out there and enjoy ourselves while we can. It seems when you get older people are frightened to live, just been on a site called iron-bru and some posters are saying some people are hardly going out,bugger that were the ones who are losing there jobs and for what,just so we can keep a few more doderies alive for a bit longer, NO step aside it’s our time now. Them women in there seventies retired at 60 ye bloody 60, why should we waste are youth we have to work till were 68 just so we can keep them alive so they can cabin up,and they are from the generations who have done the most to pollute the world burning all them fossil fuels, let’s get down that pub.

[Anonymous]

It’s astonishing. It wasn’t so long ago people were saying that we should respect the over 70s for the hardship due to the war and subsequent rationing. Now they can die so we can have a pint and keep Pret afloat!

And, no, it’s not the middle aged who are suffering most. Most job losses are among the young. When this is over there will need to be some kind of help for them, given these sacrifices, but those who clamour for Sweden now will be pulling crude faces at the suggestion we follow their lead on measures to mitigate job losses. They will say that they were alright, jack, and after saying the dodderies can die for all they care, they will be telling the young, spoiled brats to learn from the heroic 70+ generation about how they dealt with rationing.

[Deereyme66]

The depth of your analysis never ceases to amaze me awaywego.

[Awaywego]

Thanks Derrey, though nearly at that dodderie age myself I like to think that I can relate to the young of today,after all I was young once, unlike many on here who were born Oap’s well a least forgotten their youth and what they used to get up to.

[Awaywego]

One thing for sure is we don’t have much of a social conscience all the panic buying and hoarding our nation did at the start of covid. I was in Kos in October and it was noticeable that the Germans and Russians still don’t believe in queuing and still have no manners even in this covid era, whereas the Greeks more than made us English welcome, and were only more noticeable careful while at work.

[mistertonmick]

Did you get stocked up with lettuce while you were there.

[Northumbiron]

Anonymous wrote:

And, no, it’s not the middle aged who are suffering most. Most job losses are among the young.

Too true. I’m afraid it’ll be last in, first out when it comes to job losses.

[TwoWrights]

mistertonmick wrote:

Did you get stocked up with lettuce while you were there.

Little Caesar variety?! ;-)

[Awaywego]

That Romaine’s to be seen Mick.

[mistertonmick]

That was a Little Gem mate.

[Author]

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