Iron Bru › Forums › Non Football › God
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October 12, 2023 at 3:56 pm #275259
What a guy!
October 12, 2023 at 7:03 pm #275267Supposed to have created man in his own image, which if true makes him kind, loving,caring, nasty, spiteful and uncaring.
October 12, 2023 at 7:17 pm #275269My judgement is none of your business.
October 12, 2023 at 9:11 pm #275274Been to York minster today ( been a few times ) still can’t work out what such a beautiful ornate marvellously constructed building built over several centuries, has to do with a religion preached by a poor carpenter over 2000 years ago with equally poor fishermen as hangers on. Seems so over the top to me.
October 12, 2023 at 9:35 pm #275278I’m really sorry that you don’t know how much He loves each of you and how He longs for you to discover what you were born for. As Bill has intimated in his usual confrontational style.. it is each one’s responsibility to turn to Him .. not to grasp for shallow distractions like medieval buildings or the expressions of evil in the world as a dismissive excuse. If you look at a human incarnation of God covered in blood and snot and spit and crying for forgiveness for his murderers then you are starting in the right place. That’s who I came to know as a 23 year old and I want everyone to taste what he offers.
October 12, 2023 at 9:40 pm #275279Well explained JI, I still don’t get it but I’m only human after all and there is no other living intellectual species to compare humans with, myths, legends and maybes don’t cut it for me.
October 12, 2023 at 9:42 pm #275280If a deity is willing to torture people for eternity for scepticism, I do not think of it as a loving god. I just don’t think it exists, and am perfectly happy with my own humanism.
October 12, 2023 at 9:44 pm #275281Religion offers nothing for me, I’m of the opinion we’re born, live and then die, with nothing after death. None of that has ever stopped me from having a mainly happy and productive life. Each to their own though.
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October 12, 2023 at 9:56 pm #275282Some people for some reason think it’s their business to keep banging on about “their own” to other people who aren’t interested.
October 12, 2023 at 10:08 pm #275284I feel like I’ve got to know you guys a bit over these last years ..even a kind of friendship. Why wouldn’t I take the opportunity ..when it seems appropriate.. to offer what I consider the best news for any person to connect with. Thanks for fairly respectful responses. Maybe a day will come when present certainties melt away and different kinds of questions and needs will draw you. If it turns out that anything I have posted or may post on here turns out to be some kind of signpost then I would be delighted. I believe that prayer is the most powerful force in the universe if offered in honesty, faith and love so that’s what I’ll continue to do. The beauty is that I don’t even need your real names. He knows who you are .. and not meaning it as a threat .. He knows where you live :)
October 12, 2023 at 10:31 pm #275286I understand that a Christian will want others to share the same belief. From my perspective, I have considered the possibility of a god over time and I don’t consider it to be a hypothesis with evidence at the moment. I guess you could say it’s a scientific mindset, but that also means I cannot fully discount it. I agree with Dawkins in his assessment of there being a thing as an ‘agnostic atheist’, and that probably is the best fit for me in that it means that you don’t think there is a god, but would be open to one if the evidence appears. Just as with other ideas. I don’t think it’s a certainty in that I don’t think many can say they are 100% certain with no doubt from either side.
Atheism for me is just a description for my stance on gods. I have always ummed and arred over humanism, but recent events have made me set more trust in calling myself a humanist. It’s more important to me than setting my stall as an atheist, and don’t think that should be some steadfast position as some take (see the new atheism page on reddit for the people I am referring to).
I do suspect calling us friends will have bpg smirking away again.
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October 12, 2023 at 10:39 pm #275287A kind of friend is fine by me, but a true friend should know when to give it a rest (polite phrase for a kind of friend).
October 12, 2023 at 11:05 pm #275288Just to be a bit defensive here, Heath .. and I believe justifiably.. this thread was started by 64, there were several responses and then, eventually, I also contributed. At that point you felt that someone was ‘banging on.’ There were further responses and so I contributed again… to which you offered I should ‘give it a rest.’ Now, call me me slightly cynical, but that sounds to me like you don’t mind a discussion on these faith matters as long as they are one sided ..but not if someone presents a heartfelt, ‘friendly’ and clear presentation of a Christian perspective. Now I’m a pretty sensitive guy, I’m not keen on doing a ‘ Ned Flanders’ and turning every subject into some kind of faith confrontation ..but in this case the old ‘ramming it down our throats’ argument is not cutting it. At least make a fair start, if the topic upsets you, and ask 64 not to introduce such topics and other posters not to engage. Meanwhile ..here at faith central .. I’m still believing and praying.
October 12, 2023 at 11:52 pm #275290I suppose the multiple threads and videos not started or posted by you has made some of us non believers get the impression that there is a lot of banging on about religion on this forum.
October 13, 2023 at 7:45 am #275292OK. So not so much aimed at me. Fair does.
October 13, 2023 at 8:39 am #275293To be fair, this has involved some respectful discussion and wasn’t started by bpg for once, with the usual attempted gotcha traps.
October 13, 2023 at 10:16 am #275300On judgement day ,your mockery will receive just punishment.
Aye! He loves us so much that he’s going to punish us for all of eternity if we don’t love him back!
That’s not the behaviour of an omnipotent deity, it’s the behaviour of a psychopath!
All made up nonsense anyway. Nothing to see here, move on.
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October 13, 2023 at 1:28 pm #275311‘Every time I hear a newborn baby cry, or touch a leaf ..or see the sky…’ That old Batchelor’s song from my boyhood keeps circling in my mind, NI. I’m not sure that the only place to begin is where you choose. I’d have more confidence in taking your position if there was any evidence that you’re certainties are borne out of anything other than self based confidence and the illusion of an independent mind. I guess that’s why times of deep uncertainty and even suffering so often prove to be the gateway to the kingdom. As someone we’ve both heard of said ..amongst some other good things ..’ Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.’
October 13, 2023 at 2:28 pm #275317October 13, 2023 at 4:05 pm #275321“The illusion of an independent mind”?
Run that one past me again!
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October 13, 2023 at 7:25 pm #275328Not meant as an insult. I think that most folks .. especially of a radical ilk .. feel that they are free thinking and have come to their perspective by a kind of self generated wisdom. My take is that forces shape us ..including our thinking .. that we ‘know not of.’
October 13, 2023 at 7:43 pm #275329Do you believe the impressive medieval buildings built to God’s glory are nothing more than man’s folly in not understanding the true meaning of faith and understanding how to follow Christ than JI? Again I’m always impressed by the old cathedrals and minsters but never understood why they were built the way they were from a religious perspective,they come across as more of a power trip message to keep the people in check and to fear religion not embrace it as you do.
October 13, 2023 at 8:23 pm #275331Yes. Alot to agree with there,IA. Definitely partly an expression of power etc to strike awe and to reinforce the hierarchy. But I don’t want to be too harsh. There was also a genuine expression of wanting to honour God and as cultural treasures they are unsurpassed. I’ve been able to appreciate them for the grandeur and huge achievement of building them with such limited technology. But as far as spirituality is concerned they leave me a bit flat. I’ve always preferred the front room and hired hall at the pub
And I guess that links to several of your comments about where Jesus chose to hang out. Have you had Theological training? :)October 13, 2023 at 10:04 pm #275333October 14, 2023 at 10:20 am #275340All this pious piffle and proselytising about gods… many find the supernatural bizarre, pathological and harmful to society. In fact, like obeisance to royalty, religion is so bonkers it makes astrology look respectable.
Religiosity and self-righteousness are so often used as a cover for personal prejudice, racism, bigotry and all kinds of inner conflicts, complexes and hang-ups, while in society, religion often mobilises to oppose change and progress, especially around basic issues of democracy, human rights, women’s rights and the death penalty.
Worse, it’s frequently used as a justification for the kind of monstrous acts we currently see in the middle-east, as well as being a tool for controlling the population, with a line of ‘just accept it, it’s god’s will, and so on.
This attitude of ‘let it be’ and loyalty to scriptural interpretation is a view which steers the religious away from politics. Just look in Britain today – polycrises, injustice, suffering, refugees, foodbanks, homelessness, a million kids don’t even have their own bed… Yet the plastic Christians on here and elsewhere are as quiet as church mice about it (unlike ABC Welby who recently came out to remind them of British and Christian values, and even got criticised for it!).
In fact the co-existence in the same person of ‘holier than thou’ and ‘devil may care’ brings to mind a Jekyll and Hyde figure who uses religion as a form of insurance against, or even justification for his/her own inner monstrousness – a sort of roof prop which prevents the whole edifice from collapsing.
Opiate of the masses? A sort of inner ‘Cliff Richard’?
May their god help them.
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October 14, 2023 at 2:50 pm #275342… so can I take it that you’re not over keen on Christianity, Gurney?
October 14, 2023 at 4:36 pm #275343To be quite honest,Gurnelista,I find your post a labyrinth of shotgun waffle.
My main problem is that you lump religion into one big ball of clay.
Man-made religions and the true faith of Christianity don’t mix.
If you boiled your argumentation against the Christian God only,I’m sure Just Iron would gladly give a balanced reply to your objections.Give it a try?October 14, 2023 at 5:06 pm #275344I find gurny’s post too generalised and dismissive of why people turn to faith, but Christianity is a religion all the same and many of the same flaws typical to religion apply to Christianity.
October 14, 2023 at 5:09 pm #275345All religions are man made, no exceptions despite what bill reckons.
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October 14, 2023 at 6:03 pm #275346 -
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