Get ready for Johnson 2.0

[Heath]

So the dimwit Zahawi writes an article of his affection and support for Johnson for the Daily Telegraph that gets published then pulled 2 minutes later when the ever reliable Johnson pulls out of the leadership election 2 minutes later. Of course, lying that he had more than 100 supporters.

Morning after and Zahawi is now 100% backing Sunak.

Got to love these true to their convictions Tories. Should be shot for the naff 2.0 bit!

[Iron-awe]

Your trying your best to sound disgusted I know Heathy but you also know it’s par for the course. A two faced Tory, so what else is new?

[Just Iron]

Yep. It’s the Tory disease. Not human failings. Not political pragmatism. It’s just those Tories. You would never find such compromise or self interest or adjusting to developments in any other group. That’s why it’s ok to call them Scum. Perhaps it would be best to ban them.

[Northumbiron]

The idea of Bojo “begging” MPs for votes paints an amusing picture.

You’d like to think one of them burned a £50 note in front of him!

Or better still, a ballot paper.

[Deereyme66]

‘That’s why it’s ok to call them Scum.’

That’s really not why people call them that JI. There’s a very very long list of more compelling reasons which have been rehearsed to death on here and other social media sites.

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Heath

[Siderite]

I don’t think we should make out Tories are ‘scum’ by default.

There are many who aren’t, and it is rather prejudiced. However, the current crop of Tory MPs contain all too many grifters, chancers, self-interested, grubby charlatans among them, and it’s not wrong to call out people with negative connotations if you have the evidence to back it up. I don’t think that I can possibly do the same for every Tory, politician or not, in such a broad brush way.

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Just Iron, TwoWrights

[Heath]

“political pragmatism” to try and save face and his position in the cabinet more like.

Of course politicians need to adapt, but they should also show good judgement. Those Tories who supported Johnson’s supposed offer to return showed poor judgement and incredible stupidity.

The man is under investigation for misleading parliament (lying). How the hell was making him PM again a good idea.

And JI, I would appreciate some actual opinions from you, rather than your usual commentary on other posters comments. The forum does not need a Nicholas Witchell character.

[Heath]

JI, just seen your posts on the other thread. Hope the op went well.

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Just Iron

[Deereyme66]

Siderite wrote:

I don’t think we should make out Tories are ‘scum’ by default.

There are many who aren’t, and it is rather prejudiced. However, the current crop of Tory MPs contain all too many grifters, chancers, self-interested, grubby charlatans among them, and it’s not wrong to call out people with negative connotations if you have the evidence to back it up. I don’t think that I can possibly do the same for every Tory, politician or not, in such a broad brush way.

Yes, I agree with all that. I can still understand why people do it though. It’s a bit of petulance borne out of frustration. Not clever and a sweeping generalisation, though I’m sure many who say it don’t actually mean it. I’ve realised over the last week or so, for entirely different reasons, just how much social media brings out the worst in communication. Less so much the ‘keyboard warrior’ stuff and more to do with, the more you’re engaged with it the more inward and internalised issues become. It’s really not healthy. The pandemic exacerbated social media usage and it seems to be worse than ever. Anyway, I digress. Just contextualising the use of broad brush insults and labels, as I see it.

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Just Iron, Siderite

[Bucksiron]

“I can still understand why people do it though.”

It’s totally and utterly pathetic, there are no other words for it. While there are people in the Tory party, including MPs, who could very easily be classed as scum it’s exactly the same for Labour and, indeed, any other political organisation. Anyone who claims otherwise is just naive. Many on the the left believe they have a divine right to ‘goodness’, which couldn’t be further from the truth.

As for the need “to show good judgement”, what a joke. Starmer and his colleagues campaigned for Corbyn to be PM while you lot all supported him. In reality, “good judgement” is only ever easy with hindsight.

[64]

For 29 minutes he had two separate endorsements up

[Siderite]

Bucksiron wrote:

while you lot all supported him.

Incorrect. I voted in both Labour leadership elections he was in and he was bottom in my selection both times. I didn’t vote Labour either in elections.

I have also let it clear how much I dislike him on here, but please do carry on with the accusation that all of those on this thread supported him. Myself already proves the all to be false.

[Deereyme66]

‘It’s totally and utterly pathetic, there are no other words for it.’

That’s one way of looking at it. Perhaps our debates would benefit from refraining from this sort of ŕhetoric and trying to understand opposing perspectives a little more?

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Just Iron

[Heath]

Must have missed it. Has Corbyn been given a job by Sunak?

If not, why is he mentioned so often on here?

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Northumbiron

[Heath]

And if we are going back in history, I think having a discussion to beat somebody up is pretty scummy behaviour. Not a bar to be Prime Minister according to the Tories?

And dreaming about cheering when a plane takes off to Rwanda is not very caring or classy either. Not a bar to be Home Secretary according to the Tories even though you had to resign from the same job days ago.

[Bucksiron]

Get your facts straight, Heath. I’m very clear about not agreeing with or supporting a lot of what the Tories do. Yet you lot — and I think it’s pretty clear who I mean by “you lot”, Siderite — just appear to support Labour on everything.

Heath, Corbyn remains highly relevant given the man who supported this extreme left-wing racist is leader of the opposition; and, of course, you supported him, too.

[64]

Extreme left wing racist? What an odd rant.
The man who was derided as woke because of his lifelong anti racism, unlike any Tory MP ,.Never heard him call people “woke in a derisory manner purely for being anti racist.Unlike most Tories who on the hustings feride the “woke” Its s party with racism.embedded in it and you support it .Did you call out any of your hero Boris’s overt racism is his speeches and his newspaper articles? Of course you didn’t.

[Deereyme66]

‘Appear’ being the operative word Bucks. To you maybe. Blimey, there’s so much Tory government unpicking to be had there’s barely any space left for examining Labour in detail. And pretty pointless being the opposition Party. You know, not supposedly running the country like your buddies.

[Siderite]

Bucksiron wrote:

Get your facts straight, Heath. I’m very clear about not agreeing with or supporting a lot of what the Tories do. Yet you lot — and I think it’s pretty clear who I mean by “you lot”, Siderite — just appear to support Labour on everything.

Heath, Corbyn remains highly relevant given the man who supported this extreme left-wing racist is leader of the opposition; and, of course, you supported him, too.

You lot could mean anyone on this thread. It was vague.

[Deereyme66]

Wait till nearer election time and you might see and hear more about aspects of Labour, Party supporters and members don’t support. Here’s one anyway; I don’t agree with Starmer’s stance on PR.

[Heath]

“I’m very clear about not agreeing with or supporting a lot of what the Tories do”.

You supported Truss though didn’t you? Says a lot about your judgement and political savvy. Took Sunak less than a minute to reverse the fracking nonsense you supported.

[Siderite]

Also, Bucks’s condemnations are rarely with detail or without whataboutery, which waters down the impact in my opinion.

Do many on here critique Labour? No. Though, I don’t think Bucks is much better for the other side.

[Iron-awe]

Siderite wrote:

Also, Bucks’s condemnations are rarely with detail or without whataboutery, which waters down the impact in my opinion.

Do many on here critique Labour? No. Though, I don’t think Bucks is much better for the other side.

Classic PR behaviour though, we should not be surprised about Bucks and his tactics for discussion after all this time.

[Heath]

The extent of his criticism is his meaningless statement that they are all as bad as each other.

[Deereyme66]

Siderite, nothing materialised after your intimation a few weeks back of a suggestion to improve discussion round these parts. I’m still intrigued as to what it was. Have you shelved it or might it make an appearance yet?

[Northumbiron]

At the last general election I suspect a lot of Tory voters did so despite having grave reservations about their leader at the time and his suitability to lead the country as PM.

Their doubts were well founded.

They voted Conservative because they bought into the party’s manifesto. That and the fact that many had voted Tory since the year dot and weren’t going to change despite having a bumbling oaf as the figurehead.

Bucks may have been one of these. I don’t know perhaps he could tell us.

Similarly a great number of Labour supporters would have voted for that party despite having issues with the leadership at the time.

As we have seen. Leaders come and go. You shouldn’t be voting for Corbyn or Johnson; or Starmer or Sunak. You should vote on policies and manifestos.

Criticise individuals if the deserve it.

Tar-brushing with terms like “you lot” and “all” is both lazy and inaccurate.

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TwoWrights, Iron-awe

[Iron-awe]

Always said the same NI, this populist crap about voting for a personality good sort of bloke bullshit is so annoying. How many people vote on policies having read a manifesto or actually listened to what is being offered nowadays, not many I woud suggest. Look across the pond and see how lies, bullshit and general whataboutery are shaping the Republican agenda, they hardly mention policy, everything is about anti the other side and the Supreme Court is beyond belief these days.

[Northumbiron]

Sadly I think you’re right.

All sound bites and bullet points.

[Bucksiron]

Corbyn is a racist, which is why Starmer’s distanced himself from him and taken such a strong stance on anti-Semitism. I respect Starmer for doing this but it’s a bit late given he — and most of the current Labour party — wanted Corbyn as PM, including you lot on here (minus Siderite, obviously, though why he really believes I was referring to him is beyond me).

As for Boris, he’s a total and utter fool. I’d say one of the main reasons he achieved such a big majority, apart from Brexit, was down to people’s abject fear — and loathing — of seeing Corbyn in Number 10.

Regarding the USA, you have to be pretty hard left to believe Biden’s anything other than a total and utter disaster. The reason the USA appears to be doing OK is down to fracking and interest rates, but scratch the surface and you’ll see a great deal of pain. It’s a sad situation given that many people in the UK see the Republicans as too far to the right, including me btw. I certainly don’t agree with their position on abortion, for instance. However, Biden’s ultra-left policies have been dreadful for ordinary Americans and even the Democrat’s most hardened supporters are despairing over energy prices, inflation, national debt and immigration.

[Iron-awe]

Yes of course the USA is the only country in the world suffering from high energy prices aren’t they Buck’s 🙄, you don’t address the lies and conspiracy theories of the Republicans as a substitute for genuine policies but at least you realise they are extreme right which is something. The USA has to be said is unique , not many shades of grey, most things politically appear to be either black or white which is why it comes across as a very weird place at times.

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