September 7, 2020 at 4:14 pm #194436
In many houses and gardens around north Lincs. and elsewhere it’s not unusual to see the union flag on display.
But what does it mean?
Is it simply about love of country, a patriotic gesture imported from the US? Is it a sign of aggressive nationalism by those who don’t think too hard about the issues of the day? Is it about siding with Brexit, siding with Trump, and ‘unwokeness’ in the culture war? Or is it just a bit of harmless fun?
How should we interpret this gesture? Does anyone on here fly one, and if so, why?September 7, 2020 at 8:21 pm #194443
Our neighbours across the village green fly the Northumbrian flag.
Or maybe they’re Catalan separatists?September 8, 2020 at 11:23 am #194447Deereyme66ParticipantOffline
Registered On: May 8, 2017
It could be any of those things and combinations of them, apart from ‘harmless fun’ Gurn. Depends on the host. The bottom one is the intention to create a sense of national belonging where none exists.September 8, 2020 at 11:54 am #194453HeathParticipantOffline
Registered On: August 5, 2017
Walked past a cottage at the weekend that was proudly flying the French flag. In addition there was a set of 10 questions/facts about France on a card at the base of the flag.
According to the locals the flag and questions change to a different country every week.
This was in Cambridge so obviously the owner was part of the lìberal elite or has a weird personality disorder of liking and celebrating other countries and people from around the world.
He/She is probably on a Government list of dangerous subversives. We can’t tolerate anyone admitting to liking the French or anyone for that matter who is not a true Brit.
Lots of spies in Cambridge who are probably working with the Russians and are great mates with senior KGB officials and their sons. I bet they receive funding from Russian oligarchs in return for help with buying all the expensive property in London and Cambridge. I’m sure our Prime Minister will be on their case soon, as we cannot as a country tolerate any individuals with close links to the Russians!!
Vive la France!!!September 9, 2020 at 11:31 am #194494
Aye, I suppose it’s all a bit of these. A neighbour of mine has one he periodically runs up. Staunch Tory, ex-army and takes the Daily Mail, but a nicer guy you couldn’t hope to meet.
Others not far away run up a full range of other nation’s flags, like Heathy’s example. I’ve absolutely no idea why.
But one commonality is that the St George flag only seems to be visible in rough areas. In the most expensive areas, flag-flying is hardly seen.
Maybe as DM says, the flag is a cry for some kind of solidarity – one built on nationhood, rather than on social class and shared economic level.
It’s often seen in those areas where solidarity was once common, and is now lacking, areas where insecurity is most sharply felt, and often accompanies crime, anti-social behaviour, drug-dealing, bailiffs and homelessness, etc.
Leaving the EU was never the cure for all these problems, but Brussels was made a handy scapegoat for the populists on here and elsewhere.September 9, 2020 at 10:27 pm #194506Deereyme66ParticipantOffline
Registered On: May 8, 2017
Before we adopted the ECHR there was an argument from some left wing libertarians that what was really needed was a home grown bill of rights instead. Now that’s all well and good but it depends who’s setting those rights. Same as leaving the EU. For all it’s faults what does leaving it leave us with? No replies necessary!September 9, 2020 at 11:46 pm #194507
Sounds like a job for Wesley Finesword Q.C., one of Pepperell’s sharpest.September 11, 2020 at 8:58 pm #194570Lord KitchenerParticipantOffline
Registered On: December 24, 2013
I fly an English White Dragon outside my house. Why? Because I like it!September 11, 2020 at 9:42 pm #194571
Well, no surprise there, I’ve not heard of anyone flying a flag they didn’t like!
But, what’s the attraction, what’s to like about flying a flag?September 12, 2020 at 12:47 am #194574Lord KitchenerParticipantOffline
Registered On: December 24, 2013
Well neighbours one side fly the rainbow flag all year round. On the other side it’s sometimes the Dutch flag and sometimes Israeli flag.
Each to their own I guess.September 12, 2020 at 10:15 am #194580
Yes, each to their own, but I’m just trying to understand the attraction of such a display.
My neighbour sometimes puts up the union flag (next to his Japanese car), but I don’t feel the need to get a post and run one up too, as if the house is some kind of embassy or military encampment. What’s the point?September 22, 2020 at 7:43 am #194934THE-99%ParticipantOffline
Registered On: February 14, 2015
New ,New LabourSeptember 22, 2020 at 9:05 am #194937
If that’s a cryptic criticism of Starmer’s recent comments it perfectly highlights why Labour have struggled recently.
You have to accept that the public are patriotic, and patriotism isn’t necessarily a bad thing. There is indeed a progressive case for it. I don’t mean to use it as a vehicle for flag waving and one-upmanship on other nations. I am not talking about nationalism or jingoism, but pride in one’s nation is arguably needed to improve it. If you are not remotely patriotic or proud of what your nation is or can be, why bother seeking improvement of it for the better? Starmer seems to understand this and is right to reframe Labour this way, because Corbyn’s attitude did not make it appear as if he cared for the country in the public’s eyes, and that is a massive red flag for many.September 22, 2020 at 9:21 am #194940HeathParticipantOffline
Registered On: August 5, 2017
New ,New Labour.
More to the point, same old Tories!!September 22, 2020 at 9:45 am #194944
The “Country” is the people.
Some would seem to forget this.September 22, 2020 at 9:54 am #194946
Agreed, but to stand for the people you need to have an understanding as to their key values and realise that supporting the country and seeing value in it is important for laying the groundwork for a platform. If you come across as indifferent or disgusted at the country people won’t trust that you want the best for it and its inhabitants, because why would you care if you take no pride in its merit and won’t support it when a hostile force intervenes. This was pertinent when Corbyn didn’t make any kind of stand against the Skripal poisonings and seemed more bothered about not holding the most likely suspects to account and just echoed their line.
You can see a noticeable dip in Labour support after that, and it’s that kind of problem which Starmer is trying to rectify now.September 22, 2020 at 11:19 am #194947Just IronParticipantOffline
Registered On: August 1, 2014
Just having a quick visit. I really like your understanding BRI. It is true that some flag wavers and some ‘patriots’ are nationalistic and jingoistic .. but care for or even pride in your country doesn’t have to mean blinkered support. There is nothing wrong with ‘emotional bonding’ to where we feel we belong … family, town, football club or country etc … as long as we are not undiscerning, don’t let it mutate into hate of the ‘other’ and use that emotion to try to improve things. When I wore my claret and blue dreadlocks to Wembley and the whole family wore old Scunny shirts from years back .. they were symbols of belonging, of connectedness. Flags. It didn’t mean that I hated anyone or really felt we were the best in the world.September 22, 2020 at 12:42 pm #194950
It’s a fine line at times. I have no time for fist pumping about how great it is to be English/British, cringe whenever someone makes a crude comment about sticking it one to the Germans or whatever, and likewise at the Scottish Nationalists who frame any bad thing in their own country as being the fault of the English. This is the problem with nationalism. As you say, it can be divisive and is a simple propagandistic tool for shirking responsibility for governments.
However, I feel like you must have some love and pride for what your country is and what it can be to be trusted as a responsible governor. There will be understandable alarm bells if a politician fails to demonstrate any kind of love for their own country, because if you don’t like it people will feel like the motivation won’t be there to stand up for it.
“When I wore my claret and blue dreadlocks”
That must have been a sight to behold.September 22, 2020 at 12:46 pm #194951
Quite so JI. England lose, I shrug my shoulders. Iron lose and I’m in a bad mood for days! I wonder what percentage of the population still favour a National perceptive over a local/regional one.
You’ll often hear folk round here saying stuff like “that bloody London”, or “they’re not bothered about us in the North”. “Wasting money on HS2 when it won’t come any further north than Manchester”. And as for Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland, they may as well be Belgium, Holland and France.
Sine the OP I’ve been on the lookout for flags. One or two Union Flags but around here the red/yellow Northumberland flag is the most prominent. I passed a catering van in a lay-by on the A69 yesterday proudly flying two and Market St in Hexham has around a dozen.
Having a World view of things and prioritising regional matters over national issues may have something to do with it.September 22, 2020 at 12:52 pm #194952
“You’ll often hear folk round here saying stuff like “that bloody London”, or “they’re not bothered about us in the North””
The bloke who appeared before Max Bell in the recent BBC report said pretty much that.September 22, 2020 at 2:38 pm #194955
Fine talk above, about ‘don’t let (pride in your country) mutate into hate of the ‘other’ ‘, but could it really get any more ironic when so many on here have been out to manipulate these feelings with their posts about the ‘evil empire of the EU’ and so on?
The politics of Trump, and UKIP in particular, with their rhetoric surrounding the referendum, plus the Tories with their campaigns to send people back, have all made a virulent nationalism and racism seem almost respectable.
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