Butler the new Dean?

Iron Bru Forums Blast Furnace Butler the new Dean?

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  • #291579
    Deereyme66Deereyme66
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    ‘someone who says they know George stated that new owners with bigger pockets would be needed than they are prepared to finance.’

    Comfortable with that if it’s pure donations with no strings attached and not loans. Otherwise we’re potentially back to square one. If National League is as far as this budget allows, so be it. As long as it’s sustainable.

    #291580
    Iron-aweIron-awe
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    , someone who says they know George stated that new owners with bigger pockets would be needed

    So typical he said she said nonsense from you with no evidence apart from say so. Why am I not surprised you buy into that one!

    #291582
    AwaywegoAwaywego
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    Allow me an occasional one ironawe most of my posts are far from he said she said and you know that.
    Doubt whether Ian not so sharp’s loan has disappeared Deerey do you.

    #291597
    RoamingBullRoamingBull
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    Anyway see how they get on today. A win and top performance would be great to set up a big game next week.

    Only if we arrange a friendly!

    Apologies for that but you could be quite right organize a friendly with some new faces would be a start and plan B formation.

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    #291600
    cokeovenkidcokeovenkid
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    Didn’t bother today, it’s becoming obvious this season will end the same as last season with a few less goals conceded. We desperately need a goalscorer that’s interested.

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    #291602
    IronaweIronawe
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    A tail off in crowds will be incoming, you can sponsor the shit out of anything but in the end if your product is akin to Ratners you’re going to struggle.

    Butler needs to learn and learn quick because missing on promotion is unthinkable.

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    #291603
    SideriteSiderite
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    Didn’t bother today, it’s becoming obvious this season will end the same as last season with a few less goals conceded. We desperately need a goalscorer that’s interested.

    Aye. Another poor game from Whitehall. Missed what looked like an easy chance and spent most of the game on the floor, and always seems to not anticipate much.

    #291604
    Rene ArtoisRene Artois
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    Just read these comments and wondered whether anyone has looked at the NLN League Table recently or reflected that until the new board came a year ago the club was dead in the water.

    Come on. Why not be positive for once

    It would appear that at least one of the wheels has become detached?

    IMG-5920

    #291606
    SideriteSiderite
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    Didn’t bother today, it’s becoming obvious this season will end the same as last season with a few less goals conceded. We desperately need a goalscorer that’s interested.

    Aye. Another poof game from Whitehall. Missed what looked like an easy chance and spent most of the game on the floor, and always seems to not anticipate much.

    That should be poor!

    #291607
    NorthumbironNorthumbiron
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    But AB has made us fitter and stronger this season, so we can see out games.

    Oops!

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    #291610
    Iron-aweIron-awe
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    It was a poor game between two poor teams today but although we are in poor form ATM there is still no excuse for your top striker to miss two free headers from 6 yards out. Not blaming Whitehall totally because he reflected the team as a whole today ( Roberts two bits of brilliance withstanding) but your star striker is someone you turn too to provide the difference in games like these and he couldn’t deliver. Hope Alfie recovers quickly because we need all options fit ASAP.

    #291670
    Iron414Iron414
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    The SUFC buzzword ‘Sustainability’ by definition means we are only spending the equivalent of what comes in (or less whilst we clear the debts) which ultimately means it’s the fans and sponsors who are paying the wages of the staff and players. I’ve seen a few comments across social media of fans who feel affronted by the somewhat hasty decision to extend Butlers contract and comments that the fans and sponsors will wind up paying for it, presumably by a pay off to the manager or via enduring the turgid football for another 2 seasons.

    Maybe it would have been prudent to take a ‘see how it goes’ approach with the manager and staff, much like we have with the players who have in the most part signed 1 year deals. Extending now in light of the reaction to the Guiseley defeat feels like abit of a ‘stuff you’ to the fans and seems that the board will do what they want regardless of fan opinion. Wasn’t the tag line this time last year ‘it’s OUR club’? Doesn’t feel like it at the moment. The only rational explanation for an extension at this point would be to provide some security to Butler in the hope that the vote of confidence improves his performance. Thats a big risk and does have the feel of ‘jobs for the boys’, handing out contracts to people who are liked rather than for their achievements.

    The timing was wrong IMO and has divided the fan base and fanned the flames. First big mistake from Michelle and the board. I’m hoping after getting our fingers burned with Dean’s extension last year that we might have had the foresight to have some performance related break clause. I.e if we do not achieve top 4 this year we are able to cancel the contract in the summer without having to pay him off. But I’m no expert in contract matters so not even sure if that would be legal.

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    #291675
    Iron-aweIron-awe
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    The contract extension was barely mentioned in the main stand area where I was sat yesterday and as for the fanbase being divided, well maybe the ones on here and some on social media, big deal.

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    #291678
    cassidystashcassidystash
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    Don’t see much division on here I-A.
    ‘Contract extension badly timed/too soon’ and ‘Butlers tactics are questionable’ seem to be pretty standard opinions.

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    #291679
    Deereyme66Deereyme66
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    ‘The timing was wrong IMO and has divided the fan base and fanned the flames.’

    Total exaggeration. Some say trust the Board others say they shouldn’t have done it. So what? It’s football. People have different opinions. No one’s getting death threats are they.

    #291681
    Iron-aweIron-awe
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    Don’t see much division on here I-A.
    ‘Contract extension badly timed/too soon’ and ‘Butlers tactics are questionable’ seem to be pretty standard opinions.

    Our friend 414 reckons the fanbase is divided over the issue and I was just redressing the balance with my post about yesterday’s home crowd in the main stand

    #291693
    AwaywegoAwaywego
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    I’ll come back with a Deerey on that, you mean the person sat next to you said nothing. I see.

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    #291704
    Iron414Iron414
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    I’m reckoning a sample size in the several hundreds (ie the total comments across the various social media platforms) is probably more representative than the two people sat next to you at the game IA.

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    #291709
    SideriteSiderite
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    I doubt the fanbase is divided to breaking point, but some have to argue such for their own stirring.

    #291714
    Iron-aweIron-awe
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    Your narrow minded agenda is pretty clear on this forum 414, we’ll leave it at that I reckon.

    #292163
    Rene ArtoisRene Artois
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    It’s looking more and more that way.
    Same old, same old.

    #292172
    Iron-aweIron-awe
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    It’s looking more and more that way.
    Same old, same old.

    Except under Dean last season we acquired nil points from trips to Chester, Curzon and Brackley whereas, as was pointed out in yesterday’s post match interview, under AB we have acquired 7 points from the same group of fixtures this season.

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    #292183
    Rene ArtoisRene Artois
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    It’s looking more and more that way.
    Same old, same old.

    Except under Dean last season we acquired nil points from trips to Chester, Curzon and Brackley whereas, as was pointed out in yesterday’s post match interview, under AB we have acquired 7 points from the same group of fixtures this season.

    #292241
    Deereyme66Deereyme66
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    A post on X yesterday below:

    ‘Surely any manager worth their salt has their own ideas and playing model? The simplistic approach of just copying the last team to win the league says it all. He doesn’t sound that bright in interviews either. We’ve got a simpleton in charge, should have stuck with Dean.’

    Total unnecessary disrespect. And rubbish – Like Dean was some super intelligent guy?!
    Just get over it with some grace and dignity.

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    #292242
    SideriteSiderite
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    Anyone thinking managers will play experimental tactics in the 2nd tier of non-league is living with their heads in the clouds. You’re not likely to get the next Ralf Rangnick, Johann Cruyff or Pep Guardiola at this level. The football will be based on tried and trusted tactics that suit the abilities of the players at this level.

    Jimmy Dean was hardly revolutionary with his tactics and most of that was found wanting in the end, with a much higher budget and bigger squad and losing out in the end. Butler has made some frustrating errors and he might fail, but this overly dramatic rage from some quarters is pathetic. Yes, we can be critical of some recent poor perfomances, and the league position should not have hidden that. However, to then make such snide insults at Butler and for a “Butler out” thread to be created is just kneejerk, unrealistic and irrational. The club are not going to bin Butler off because of a bad run of form when we’re top; there will have to be questions asked when the season ends, depending on where we finish. Some have bemoaned (rightfully, I think) the sack-happy nature of the Swann years, and it must be said that there were many calling for the sack of those Swann did dispose of at the time. We have been through a lot since, but there are some who are still seemingly turning on coaches far too quickly. Butler might not improve, but it’s pointless turning against him when it has been a few months and we are top of the league. To emphasise, I am not saying that to distract from deserved criticism of performances, but to point out that turning against Butler now is an extreme response.

    Dean had 18 months and failed his remit. We should give Butler at least until May before reevaluation, unless there’s a catastrophic drop down the table. Thankfully, I think the kneejerk reactions have been constrained to a few, but there are some like the tweeter in question where it does apply.

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    #292249
    AwaywegoAwaywego
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    To say Dean failed his remit is beyond the pail (and I wanted Dean out has well)
    Michelle extended his contract so no way was it promotion or your out, just the as Michelle has done with Butler extended his so definitely it’s not promotion or saçk, should be mind in this Micky mouse league, not like Dean or Butler where or are in demand anywhere else.
    Ps,did you object to the knee jerk reactions of fans last season wanting Dean out? And May! If Michelle had binned Dean after the Darlo game and installed Butler with his good start and all we might have been playing in the National league.

    #292253
    SideriteSiderite
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    Dean’s remit was to get promotion and he didn’t, so he failed. Butler’s goal is to gain promotion and if he doesn’t he will have failed. If he fails there will have to be a reevaluation, where there may be a consideration that he could learn and improve next year or he goes.

    We are currently 12 games in, so there isn’t a comparison between fans turning on Butler now and those saying Dean should go at the end of the season in May. I don’t think it’s ‘beyond the pale’ to say that the task last year was promotion and Dean failed to achieve that.

    #292254
    cokeovenkidcokeovenkid
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    The only comparison between the two I would make is this
    When we finally get up a head of steam and start playing some good passing football ( between minutes 50 and 70 )they both stop us in our tracks by making multiple substitutions, last night however I was pleasantly surprised at our efforts after that period.

    #292258
    AwaywegoAwaywego
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    Siderite You posted about some wanting Dean out after 1 game (February 2023) ps you did criticize them.
    But by March you were saying he was out his depth yourself.
    So let’s not be having this end of the season shite people were on his back from day one.

    #292259
    SideriteSiderite
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    Yes, and those who turned against Dean after a few games were daft. As are people speaking about Butler now. I am not saying people weren’t rash with Dean at all, so I am not sure what the point of that trawl through past comments is really. However, by May this year Dean had enough time to be properly assessed, but anyone saying Butler has after 12 league games when we’re top of the league is being silly.

    I looked and said that it looked like Dean was out of his depth, but hopefully he learns in March 2023. I have criticised Butler recently, and it’s not fair criticism that bothers me, so I don’t know what you’re trying to prove. There was once difference in March 2023 though in that we were not top of the league then and had a raft of new signings, so negativity is going to be more common (you’d think).

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