January 29, 2021 at 10:40 pm #201998BloodyRubbishIronParticipantOffline
Registered On: September 7, 2015
Yes, I know what the argument is about but I haven’t seen the contract.
The contract can be seen here:
The whole thing is getting very silly. Macron undermining confidence in a vaccine to save face. The EU acting in a panicked state of terror because of it, closing off the Irish border in this petty row. I could say that this shows the stupidity of splitting off, but regardless, this is not how to behave. This goes beyond trade rules as a third party state and is the actions of a panicked bloc desperate for pressure on what it thinks it’s owed. This is not how to do it, though, and will only cause resentment.
After years of selling the virtue of the Good Friday Agreement, and the government’s carelessness towards it, is disheartening to see that the EU have disregarded it too. Hopefully the sane voices in the EU, such as the distraught diplomats making their voices known, can have this stupidity overturned.
1 user thanked author for this post.January 30, 2021 at 7:54 pm #202051
Oh dear, there I go again with a ‘Grauniad’ article…January 31, 2021 at 12:11 pm #202057BucksironParticipantOffline
Registered On: December 24, 2013
There is nothing to gloat about what has happened over the past few days. The British Government is doing the right thing in offering to help the EU over its vaccination crisis — it’s people’s lives that matter not political gain.
What cannot be ignored are the plain facts behind what has happened. The reason the EU’s vaccination programme is such a disaster is down to the mechanisms of the EU. A classic example of the “big state” in action, or to put it more accurately, inaction.
What is disturbing is how the EU has reacted to the position it’s now in, directly it has to be said as a result of its own fallibilities. The EU’s threat over the Irish border has not been removed, which makes a mockery of its supposed position over the Irish peace process, and its position over exports with regard to vaccines have quite rightly been condemned across the world.
Be in no doubt that the EU is effectively threatening to take over Astra Zeneca’s EU production processes if it doesn’t get its own way. Whether it would actually do so is another matter but it’s making clear to the company that it has the ability to do so. Any company thinking about basing itself in the EU will now be having serious second thoughts.
This would be perfectly understandable except for the fact that the EU’s position is of its own making. Regarding the contract with Astra Zeneca the lawyers would take the EU to the cleaners should this ever get to court — the truth of the matter is that the EU is looking to put blame elsewhere for its own shortcomings. Then we have one of the greatest supporters of the EU, Emmanuel Macron, coming out with fake news that Donald Trump would be proud of.
What the EU has done, of course, is reveal its true colours for the whole world to see. I don’t expect any of the “usual suspects” to change their views as a result of this, indeed I expect they’ll come out with every excuse in the book to claim the exact opposite. But any reasonable thinking person who might have voted to remain will now see why so many voted to leave. It had nothing to do with immigration for many but everything to do with the EU wanting to take control of its member states, with consequences laid bare for all to see.
Deerey, it’s interesting how you and others accuse me of “gaslighting” — a very easy accusation to make but one without any foundation. If what I say is gaslighting then exactly the same can be said about everyone on here.January 31, 2021 at 12:36 pm #202058HeathParticipantOffline
Registered On: August 5, 2017
You were doing quite well until the usual “usual suspects”.January 31, 2021 at 12:48 pm #202059
No, he wasn’t doing quite well. He’s making stuff up again while he sticks the boot in to the EU. ‘Doubling down’ I believe. Take this history re’write:
‘…why so many voted to leave. It had nothing to do with immigration for many’.
Nearly all the research said it was immigration. Here’s one example and there’s plenty more out there:
Conveniently piggy backing the EU vaccination programme mess to deflect from the bigger issue – this wreck of a government ridiculously championed by the dominant right wing press.January 31, 2021 at 12:50 pm #202061BloodyRubbishIronParticipantOffline
Registered On: September 7, 2015
To be fair, many of those countries could have acted differently if they wanted, our response was not outside of EU rules, but this doesn’t change that this is a poor response by the EU.
What is interesting is that Bucks is still peddling straw men about how it will be seen as the opposite. Not one word has been said in support of the EU over this. The only response has been critical, including a thanks, which is usually taken as significant by Bucks.
Unfortunately, once again, Bucks is arguing with his straw men and idealised opponents. Maybe if he spent less time trying to pigeon hole everyone into his stereotype it would be more conductive debating. Instead, we get endless streams of drivel aimed at anyone who veers from his point of view, and how they are bitter or are hating the country. It is truly impossible to have a debate when someone just sees opposing arguments as inherently duplicitous, regardless of bad action against this someone.
The last sentence shows exactly the pious, holier than thou attitude. I have given reasons as to why I think Bucks has gaslighted, but rather than see it as valid, he can do no wrong and it must be a fault of everyone else. This despite the continued issues of straw manning and assumptions made against anyone to the left of Ronald Reagan.January 31, 2021 at 12:57 pm #202062
More research to debunk the ‘immigration was not the reason many voted leave’ myth he’s peddling:
Revealing how he has plenty to say now the minute something has gone wrong with the EU, hardly any responses to repeated questions about this shambles of a government on this side of the forum. As I’ve said previously, very selective which posts he responds to. Same old same old.January 31, 2021 at 2:12 pm #202063HeathParticipantOffline
Registered On: August 5, 2017
“No, he wasn’t doing quite well”.
I wasn’t agreeing with his post, just that he managed 5 paragraphs without an insult to other posters.
Like you, trying to link the poor position the EU is in on the vaccine to a conclusion that immigration wasn’t a major factor in the Brexit vote is absurd.
I’m sure the knuckle heads were studying text books on systems of Government before casting their votes.January 31, 2021 at 2:18 pm #202064
The Tories and the Brexiters will dine out on the EU vaccination fiasco for years now, forgetting all the other problems. Fickle.January 31, 2021 at 2:39 pm #202065NorthumbironParticipantOffline
Registered On: January 3, 2014
Yup! A fair and coherent post from Bucks for once.
Unfortunately he can’t help himself and has to add the last two paragraphs. Talk about “true colours”!January 31, 2021 at 2:51 pm #202066
Lol, nothing fair about ‘It had nothing to do with immigration’. Absolute bollo in fact.January 31, 2021 at 7:48 pm #202073BucksironParticipantOffline
Registered On: December 24, 2013
What part of “It had nothing to do with immigration FOR MANY” do you not understand?
Talk about “fake news”, you’re all full of it. I was very careful NOT to say the very things you’re now claiming that I did; and then you have the gall to remove the crucial two words, Deerey, which were “for many”. It’s your comment that’s absolute bollo, not mine, and it’s your comment that’s absurd, Heath, because I haven’t said immigration wasn’t a major factor at all. Then you wonder why I bring in “the usual suspects”.
As for gaslighting, again you’re all full of it. Anyone who voted for Brexit was a racist according to the usual suspects (not you, BRI, although your insinuation that I’m trying to pigeon hole everyone is ridiculous — I can’t respond to every individual on here. It’s pretty clear who “the usual suspects” are for goodness sake).
Of course, the biggest culprit of all in this respect was none other than the racist himself, Gurnelista; and if he wants to prove he isn’t a racist it would be very easy for him to do so by making it clear he agrees with the Labour party’s current position on anti Semitism. So, come on, Gurnelista, instead of evading the question why don’t you answer it?
Of course the usual suspects can’t help but come out with the usual suspects’ comments. Heath has now become a ‘victim’, which is interesting given the appalling abuse he comes out with. Typical hypocrisy, as usual.
As for dining out on what’s happened, there’s nothing remotely good about any of this. What it has done, however, is reveal the EU for what it really is and no matter how hard you might try to rubbish them, the facts speak for themselves.January 31, 2021 at 10:11 pm #202076TwoWrightsParticipantOffline
Registered On: December 23, 2013
BI complaining about someone not answering a question, oh the absolute effing irony. 💩January 31, 2021 at 10:52 pm #202077Iron-aweParticipantOffline
Registered On: June 21, 2017
Buck’s your last post was unnecessary and unwarranted it’s blatantly obvious you are effected by things you read on here and your inane response just confirms it, if you can’t stay on topic stay away for your own good. This is not a personal attack just a genuine concern for your wellbeing.February 1, 2021 at 12:05 am #202078
Okay Bucks let’s have a look at the full paragraph:
‘But any reasonable thinking person who might have voted to remain will now see why so many voted to leave. It had nothing to do with immigration for many but everything to do with the EU wanting to take control of its member states, with consequences laid bare for all to see.’
In surveys, immigration came out on top, followed by sovereignty. ‘EU wanting to take control of its member states, with consequences laid bare for all to see’ barely gets a mention, let alone ‘everything’ as you claim.
You’re trying to rewrite history on the back of an EU mess up that will have consequences for EU citizens. And all because you’re clinging on to one of the very few things this Tory government have got right in their response to the pandemic. I don’t need to list the many catastrophic failures that have caused so many unnecessary deaths. We all know them well enough by now.
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