Home Forums The New Blast Furnace After the lockdown?

  • #176774

    Lord Kitchener
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    I’m really sick of there being no football, and I know for a fact that many many others feel the same.

    So it is my opinion that when football recommenced, the fans will flock to see their favourite team. It will be like a colossal sigh of relief.

    I know some on here are expecting a lot of clubs to go under, and they are pessimistic about the survival of The Iron. But is there any real sign of this happening? I don’t think so but feel free to set me right if you think I’m wrong…

    #176785

    Ironfan
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    I’m quite enjoying my weekends not being ruined by yet another inept performance and I don’t expect things to change once we get going again. So, no, I’m not missing my football one bit.

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    #176787

    Iron-awe
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    You know what LK, I’m not convinced that all the fans will flock back as quickly as you think, some age groups could well feel insecure about mixing with large gatherings again. Recent survey found that 80% of people questioned about a return to ” normal ” we’re reticent about using public transport, mixing in large groups, bars , restaurants etc and I’m assuming football fans were part of that survey. Sitting or standing in a large group of people could take a lot of getting used to after all these warnings and social distancing measures.

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    #176789

    MK Iron
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    If we dont add 3 or 4 quality players to the current squad for next season then social distancing should be fairly easy.

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    #176793

    DarrynStampGoalMachine
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    I really haven’t missed it. Usually between seasons I can’t wait for the next but not now. I don’t know if it’s the uncertainty of when it will return, the fact that when it does return it may be the end of a dead season with nothing to play for or just the fact that the shit we’ve been served for so long means I’m finally starting to loose interest.

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    #176795

    Northumbiron
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    It’s been two months. This year’s closed season was set to be three months long.

    So unless you mean FA Cup Final, European Cup Final, Euro’s etc it’s pretty much what you get every summer.

    However, if you’re talking about when football is likely to return, that’s a different matter.

    If fans return any time soon I expect them to be dressed like Ultras at a Roma-Lazio derby!

    #176813

    Bucksiron
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    Apart from the elderly and most vulnerable the vast majority of supporters are at greater risk on the journey to and from the ground than from coronavirus. I believe 80,000 people died in the Hong Kong flu outbreak of 1968, which most people don’t even remember.

    #176816

    Northumbiron
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    Didn’t have smart phones and 27 different news channels then Bucks!

    #176820

    scunnymatt88
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    I’m quite enjoying my weekends not being ruined by yet another inept performance and I don’t expect things to change once we get going again. So, no, I’m not missing my football one bit.

    I miss having a bet on the football alot more than attending our library where we get rolled over most weeks.

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    #176832

    Gurnelista
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    Apart from the elderly and most vulnerable the vast majority of supporters are at greater risk on the journey to and from the ground than from coronavirus.

    Not so, because deaths from a road traffic accident are far lower than deaths from Corona. Currently, over 30k deaths and rising from Corona. In GB in 2019 there were only 1870 road traffic deaths. And many of those involved racing on the highway, police pursuits, etc.

    So in absolute terms, the the risk of death from Corona is actually far higher than the risk of getting to and from GP on foot, or via slow, congested car/bus journey.

    True, if you’re not elderly and vulnerable the risk of death from Corona is reduced, but that also applies to the chances of death from a road accident. So, although the risk of death from Corona is low in N Lincs, the risk of death from an RTA is currently lower.

    PLus, it’s still not known if a second wave of Corona could happen.

    The 1968 outbreak has no bearing on this discussion.

    #176833

    maxwillor
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    Myassignmenthelpau specializes in willingness to learn, which is our biggest competitive advantage and transforms learning into quick practice. We take care of all the student’s My Assignment help in Australia; homework aid needs and they have the best advice to tackle the tasks, which is an immense help for them to move ahead with their studies.

    #176834

    Northumbiron
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    Swanny needs to do his homework for next season. Maybe he should sign up?

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    #176837

    Gurnelista
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    Ah, an essay mill. Helping students to write fake essays worldwide.

    #176843

    Ferrite
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    Not sure that’s true Bucks, I suspect you might be letting your own opinions get in the way of facts.

    According to David Spiegelhalter, a professor in risk & probability, for all ages groups COVID 19 has the effect of compressing a year’s worth of risk of dying into a couple of months.

    That might still be a relatively small risk for some age groups but it’s also not negligible. We also have to remember our own individual responsabilities to society as a whole, not just to ourselves.

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    #176867

    Iron-awe
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    Apart from the elderly and most vulnerable the vast majority of supporters are at greater risk on the journey to and from the ground than from coronavirus. I believe 80,000 people died in the Hong Kong flu outbreak of 1968, which most people don’t even remember.

    Smaller population back then and I do remember the Hong Kong flu outbreak because my Father caught it and was very ill for several weeks but luckily he recovered. He recovered at home and was treated by our family doctor with home visits. No such thing as a lockdown then but we live in very different times now and as a result we approach pandemics differently.

    #176907

    Bucksiron
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    Completely incorrect, Gurnelista. First, I was talking about risk and didn’t even mention deaths. However, if you look at the number of deaths from coronavirus removing the elderly and most vulnerable, as I stated, it’s nothing like the numbers you’ve come out with. In addition the number you’ve used is deaths that have already happened while the rate of deaths is decreasing, so the risk is also decreasing as is the likelihood of getting the disease let alone dying from it. Then, you’ve quoted road traffic deaths, taking no account of pedestrians or cyclists.

    No matter how you look at this the risk from coronavirus is no different from other risks that people take every day, except of course for the elderly and most vulnerable as I stated.

    Regarding Hong Kong flue, IA, the fact the population was smaller means it was a much bigger killer than coronavirus. I’m not suggesting that we should ignore coronavirus but the fact remains that the risk from it for the vast majority of the population is very small and no bigger than the day-to-day risks people were taking before the outbreak.

    Yes, we need to protect the elderly and most vulnerable but if this is where the focus had been put in the first place there would now be far fewer deaths than there have been from coronavirus. At the the same time thousands have and will die from other diseases because their treatment’s been delayed as a result of coronavirus.

    One hope is that people will finally take on board the need to avoid becoming overweight let alone obese, which in itself increases the risk from coronavirus let alone from strongly related conditions such as diabetes, respiratory and heart conditions.

    #176912

    Heath
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    But are you looking forward to watching Scunny again? Will you up your attendance to more than 1 match per season?

    #176914

    Iron-awe
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    The thing is Buck’s the true figure of people dead is already around 55,000 but as long as the Government keeps changing goal posts and massaging figures to suit their PR agenda the longer the majority of people will be kept guessing. The truth will come out eventually but by then Boris and Co will probably be in luxurious retirement.

    #177169

    Lord Kitchener
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    The thing is Buck’s the true figure of people dead is already around 55,000 but as long as the Government keeps changing goal posts and massaging figures to suit their PR agenda the longer the majority of people will be kept guessing. The truth will come out eventually but by then Boris and Co will probably be in luxurious retirement.

    You may well be right, but I doubt if dishonesty about the numbers of people killed by the disease is different anywhere else. I mean how many cases / deaths has China admitted to? How is this pandemic playing out in the third world?

    This storm is going to take a long long time to pass I fear…

    #177173

    Bucksiron
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    I don’t think the Government’s trying to hide anything — the truth is that definitions of data being used varies across the world while what appears on a death certificate isn’t 100% accurate. That isn’t anyone’s fault but simply a reflection of the uncertainties around the disease at the moment. My neighbour certainly died as a result of coronavirus but his was a clear-cut case. People more elderly than him — he was 70 — might die of a heart attack brought on by coronavirus, so what exactly goes on their death certificate?

    Sir David Spiegelhalter was interviewed on Radio 4 yesterday and explained all of this very well (on ‘PM’ if anyone’s interested). He also made it very clear that the situation in care homes is the same across the vast majority of Europe as it is here.

    What we do know is that the number of people dying over the past few months is dramatically higher than would be expected for the time of year. The question is how many of these died because they had coronavirus versus those who did so because they couldn’t get treatment for, say, a heart attack, which at any other time would have treated.

    #177182

    Iron-awe
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    The fact that the Government have failed to deliver enough PPE to care homes and the amount of testing in care homes they promised has failed to materialise should alert most people that 10,0000 extra care home deaths then normal for April has a huge potential to be down to the virus. Just to a reminder, if people are not tested and die, despite showing symptoms of the virus, they are not included in the death figures for coronavirus. We are in the middle of a coronavirus pandemic just in case people had forgot.

    #177214

    Pat O’Cake
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    The day to day risks we take every day are not contagious.

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    #177216

    Northumbiron
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    Everyone has been trying to tell him this Pat.

    Stony ground it seems.

    #177218

    BloodyRubbishIron
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    The wrangling to make it seem that coronavirus is minor by saying that excess deaths must be due to something else, is quite something. I thought people had stopped the “deaths despite coronavirus” when it became obvious that this was a disease with a steeper mortality rate than a common cold, as was once made out. The deaths of coronavirus have practically matched yearly influenza deaths in a couple of months.

    You will say that some of these may be because of things like induced heart attacks, but the same is true for influenza, which predominantly kills the elderly and ‘at risk.’ None of this means we should be less cautious. Those with conditions which make them at risk deserve to have life and we should do what we can to protect them.

    #177226

    Ferrite
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    It’s also important to remember that the number of people who have died would be much higher without the strict measures that have been taken, I think people forget about that.

    I don’t think the Government’s trying to hide anything

    So why are they gagging whistleblowers? Why aren’t they answering difficult questions asked by the press? Why do they continue to llie when challenged? These are not the actions of an open government.

    #177230

    cassidystash
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    “Why do they continue to lie when challenged?”

    Because they’re politicians, they do it to get elected and then they can’t stop.

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    #177247

    Bucksiron
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    Oh Lord, just how ignorant can people be.

    1. Of course the day-to-day risks people take are contagious, from hepatitis to flu and many, many others. As recently as 2015 around 28,000 died from flu in the UK alone. There are numerous infectious diseases far worse than coronavirus, which we have to live with. My own daughter had meningitis and survived but as a result now faces much greater risk from things such as strokes even though she’s still in her twenties.

    2. “The wrangling to make it seem that coronavirus is minor by saying that excess deaths must be due to something else, is quite something”.

    You couldn’t be further from the truth, BRI. There’s no wrangling about anything. I can tell you with 100% certainty that thousands of people have died and will die even though they never had and never will have the virus. These are people whose cancer treatment’s been stopped, whose screening hasn’t happened, which btw is the case for me, who haven’t received treatment for heart and other conditions, etc, etc, etc. In fact it’s very possible that these numbers might be just as high as those from coronavirus.

    Add to that the mental health crisis, which will go through the roof as a direct result of all this. Young kids now terrified even though the chances of them dying from coronavirus are about 1 in 5 million. The nightmare that tens of thousands have suffered because they’ve been stuck in awful conditions with an abusive parent or partner.

    Ultimately, of course those at risk need protecting and I’ve never said otherwise. I worry about my mother, who is 91. None of that alters the plain fact, which is that people — including my own mother — have had to face day-to-day risks all their lives.

    So before you start launching any more personal attacks in my direction, just check the facts.

    #177249

    BloodyRubbishIron
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    Those flu deaths were spread over a year. Coronavirus deaths have exceeded 28000 in the UK in a matter of months, where far more precautions have been undertaken. It’s suffice to say that coronavirus is deadlier than flu. I do not think that coronavirus is the worst disease known to man, but the issue comes in that it is novel and we don’t want another virus capable of killing taking hold, and we want to minimise risk of death while resources are put at risk and until a vaccine can be found.

    That wasn’t what I was referring to by wrangling, so do not misrepresent me. It was a response to you washing away coronavirus deaths as being a result of something else. Yes, those at risk of other ailments are at more risk, but this doesn’t mean they should be ignored. Those 28000 flu deaths would have included those who had pre-existing health conditions too, so if you’re going to minimise the coronavirus death rate because of this do not bring up flu death tolls as a direct comparison if you’re making such particular specifics for who we get to count as a coronavirus fatality.

    I have spoken elsewhere about how this lockdown isn’t an ideal situation, but we’re not in an ideal place right now regardless. Yes, people are reluctant to go to hospital when they should and mental health is an issue, though it should be noted that there has been no noticeable spike in suicides so far (I am not denying the potential!). We should of course be concerned that people do not go to hospital when they should, and be aware of the adverse effects of lockdown, but that doesn’t mean we should just accept coronavirus as a reality when it causes great issue itself.

    No personal attacks from me, so please don’t play the martyr. Detailing my disagreements with you is not a personal attack, nor is interpreting you using people dying from coronavirus with heart conditions as wrangling.

    #177252

    Heath
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    “Oh Lord, just how ignorant can people be”.

    Sounds like an attack to me!!

    #177258

    Northumbiron
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    These are people whose cancer treatment’s been stopped,

    I know two people undergoing cancer treatment at present. Neither have had their treatment stopped.

    Young kids now terrified even though the chances of them dying from coronavirus are about 1 in 5 million.

    The youngsters in our village aren’t terrified. Far from it.

    So before you start launching any more personal attacks in my direction, just check the facts.

    The fact is that the Tory government has run down the NHS for the past decade. Try shoe-horning that into the equation occasionally.

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