Registered On: September 7, 2015
You should check your facts, BRI. I’ve said on numerous occasions that there are racists in the Conservative party and everything needs to be done to get rid of them, though many are literally dying off as they do tend to be the older ones. That doesn’t mean more shouldn’t be done to tackle racism in the party. However, the Tories do have a mix of race and religion far broader than Labour in senior positions, which does send out a very strong signal.
As for “misunderstanding the Corbyn support here”, what a joke. I don’t recall many people on here having a big problem with him less than 12 months ago in an election that was going to put a true socialist in power. Gurnelista’s “the Tories are finished” makes a great epitaph for the left of the Labour party he supports, which once again was rejected by the British public with a complete humiliation at the polls. Of course the likes of him and Fans come out with the same old nonsense about the media, etc, etc, but Starmer isn’t so stupid.
It doesn’t need Einstein to see what’s happening on this board. It isn’t a message board but a moaning board. Of course all the moaning is about the Tories, which would be fine if there were at least some recognition of Labour’s own weaknesses. Ironically I agree with rather more of the comments on here than you might think, because I recognise the Conservatives are far from perfect; and this government has been pretty useless. The point is that I don’t need to come on here to know that.
But this isn’t going to change unless and until Labour gets its own act together, which will never happen while the likes of people on here do nothing but complain about everyone else at the same time as patting themselves on the back with pathetic virtue signalling. As for “Labour values”, what a load of tosh. Anyone who thinks the Conservative party’s made up of greedy right wingers only in it for themselves while Labour supporters are on the side of the angels is only kidding themselves.
Every time you do so you always qualify it with a but before referencing Labour. I class condemnations of Tory racism as meaningless if you follow it up with a “but” comment about the other party. I don’t question your commitments against racism, I am not calling you racist, but you only ever mention it as an “of course I condemn racism” before going on to the crux of your point on here on specific issues which is that of Labour. You are right that many on here did ignore it, but your arguments against issues in the Tories look like deflection. Saying “of course I oppose Tory racism, but what about Labour?” smacks of the pathetic arguments used by Corbynites to deflect from anti-Semitism when they used to say “but what about the Tory racism, which is the real issue?” You’d see the weakness of their defence when they use it, so I wonder why you do over the Tories.
I was pointing out the intricacies of the Labour support generally found in public, including on here. I was trying to present it neutrally. I specifically said I would have liked more push back and acceptance of its seriousness on here, and anywhere else, so I am not apologising for it. People did dismiss it as smears, unfortunately, but I am pointing out that your comments of Starmer shaking things up is unlikely to get anyone on here, who are of the softer left, het up in any way. There has been some belated acceptance of anti-Semitism in Labour on here and elsewhere after much denial. You could argue it’s too late, and be critical of those for being such, but it doesn’t change the belated nature of its acceptance once it’s no longer possible to deny, even as the 99% probably continues to do so. So, in summary, if you truly understood the Labour mindset of people on here you’d realise that making comments about how Starmer shaking things up is unlikely to bother the ‘soft left’ because their allegiance is with Labour, not a Corbyn personality cult. The support on here tends to be more towards protecting Labour at any cost, no matter its problems, rather than the ideology of Jeremy Corbyn. And I don’t think this as a positive by the way.
And I wasn’t even blaming you for being unfamiliar, since you are not of the left. I don’t think it says anything negative about you for not understanding this, but of course you react with outrage because Bucks the boff knows everything!
For someone who agrees with much of the Conservative criticism you have an odd way of reacting negatively to anything remotely critical of it. It does create the impression that you want to defend them when all you do is just offer vague criticism and a focus on Labour. If you set out criticism to Labour in other threads, without mentioning it as a tu quoque fallacy, which does nothing to discredit the argument, it’d be fine by me and would get no comment.
I agree that there was scant criticism for his obvious ills before the election. However, you address all of us on here with Labour values constantly. I believe I have made far more critical comments, without the need to “what about Tories?” on Labour than you have ever done on your own side. So, I can rest easy when calling you out on it. I was also sounding the alarm about Corbyn, for his anti-Semitism long before 12 months ago, so again my conscience rests easy. TwoWrights has also criticised Corbyn as useless and made comments that he’s glad he’s gone, which is more than what we get from your “yes, Tories are bad and have racism, but what about Labour?” Once again, regardless of intent, this always comes across as trying to dismiss concerns by having a weak acknowledgement which doesn’t say much.
This is why I rarely redirect to Labour issues on Tory critical threads. I haven’t made many threads, so I don’t start topics myself and this board does have a pro-left slant, which leaves me commenting often on Tory problems. They don’t magically go away if I acknowledge Labour’s problems in the same thread. I do the same on the pro-Labour threads where needed. There haven’t been as many because they’re not in power (so less in focus) and the pro-left slant. However, whenever the 99% has ever made his ridiculous apologia for Corbyn I have criticised and not done a “what about Tories?” because their issues are irrelevant. As such the 99% has accused me of defending Tories. Yet whenever you come on for your monthly vent you accuse all and sundry of being disingenuously pro-Labour. Sorry for blowing my own trumpet, but given I comment on here and you are so vague in your inclusions (and have sometimes referenced arguments I made when making these broad brush statements) of blind Labour support, I assume I am included in that. That I have a strong belief I am not, given my own views on the disastrous direction Labour have been in for too long, makes me react to such nonsense. To borrow one of your trite cliches, I say to that “what a joke!”
Heck, Starmer’s Labour is not immune to criticism. I am not criticising so far because he is doing a very good job at rebuilding Labour as competent and supportable Labour Party once again. He needs to do more and it may not be enough, but after years of naval gazing it is refreshing to have a competent opposition as we have a truly calamitous government. And, no, I am not just saying it because it’s the Tories. For as much as I may dislike her policies, Thatcher was a very competent PM; she would have been more so than Corbyn or Ed Miliband for certain. Johnson isn’t and his cabinet is among the most pathetic bunch of yes men and women to grace their roles.
2020 has finished with a good few months of hope for me. The narcissistic would-be tyrant going from the White House, no matter his bad loser protestations, the anti-Semitic, anti-western conspiracy theorist suspended from Labour and the big brained eyetest driver no longer as government advisor. Oh, and Scunny look like we could have a chance of survival if we play like yesterday. I have had more than one celebratory pint!